Catholics- Would you kill Joseph Smith?

[dianaiad]

what color is the sky in your world?

blue. cerulean blue most of the time; deep navy blue at the moment, grey blue with clouds rarely, and several ranges of peach to orange to pale pink at sunset and sunrise. I think that the color of yours has a few extra hues, however.

BY was a bigger womanizer than any “gentile” who tried his best to monopolize the tea, coffee, alcohol and tobacco trade in utah. Somehow that US army that you malign so much managed to impose federal law upon Utah. granted it took until wilford woodruff. your examples just go to show how traitorous the Utah mormons were back then.

Hey, you may not LIKE BY, but at least he MARRIED 'em. All of 'em. Sure, he wasn’t a serial polygamist like the vaunted politicians we have now, and like the governor that Buchanan replaced him with. He married 'em all at once, but he did marry them.

As to the rest of your statement, y’know what? I have given you facts, history, cites and easily confirmed events. I have done so without all that much ‘color,’ too…

And so far all you have done is come up with wild accusations without any background. Ludicrous ones, as well, that come right out of Buchanan’s propaganda…the stuff he not only used to excuse sending his army, but stuff that he knew was untrue; and that historians also know were untrue.

But hey, you are making the claim. You prove it. Except for the polygamy, would you care to tell me exactly WHAT '‘federal law’ that BY was breaking, that justified sending, quite literally, HALF the armed services of the United States after him to replace and arrest him?

And if we did NOT win, why wasn’t BY, y’know, actually arrested?

Because he wasn’t. Consider that; an army. overwhelming force.

Yet somehow the Mormons prevented them from arresting one man and taking him back east.

Ah, but never mind. Again, you are making the claim. G’head. tell me exactly what it was you think that the army actually won.

 

[ROBIN97]

Just as an FYI, Nancy’s profile says she was baptized Catholic, not that she is a practicing Catholic. Indeed with other posts from her asking if ‘our religion’ had prepared us for the end times, and with her linkage to CARM for ‘the truth’, it is quite doubtful that she is a practicing Catholic at this time. I can’t imagine a practicing Catholic using CARM as a source for ‘truth’!

BINGO!
** **
I would suggest a Baptist. Or “Bible Only” (anonymous Baptist).
ROBIN

 

[ROBIN97]

I am not saying that I would go out and slaughter like a maniac.
I am saying that the Church has the right to defend herself from her enemies and if the Church creates a competent ministry, say like the Swiss Guards or militant order, and I was asked to join it, I would have no scruples if the Church says that lets say Muslim invaders are nearing Rome, and I should go out and fight them, my friend with JOY!!! St. Ferdinand himself would add wood to the fires of heretics. This soft, wrong conception of charity and justice is something typical that was wrongfully introduced after the II Vatican Council. This idea that it is uncharitable to correct others and to hate evil with all your heart is the reason many other errors were able to penetrate the Church, because we had our guard down. I mean to the most immemoriable customs like chapters of faults were removed from religious orders because they are considered sins against charity. So what? 1500 years of uncharitable ceremonies inside religious orders founded by saints? St. Bernard was dead wrong in preaching the Crusades? St. Ferdinand and St. Louis wrong to fight in them?

You tell me. The saints or the modern concepts of mercy, justice or charity.

I agree with you completely. I am sick and tired of the notion that the Crusades were a vicious attack against helpless people. European Catholics were “Invited” or better “begged” into the fray by the Eastern Church to help fight invaders. That isn’t the way I was tough (wrongly) to believe in a public High School. Even the Catholics believed purely Protestant Historical Propaganda.

I am Sick of pointing to the Catholics as the perpetrators of Witch Hunts when this was a purely Protestant endeavor mostly.

I am sick of the history books pointing to only Catholics when they discuss the English atrocities.I never knew there were priest holes. That priests were caught quartered by 4 horses pulling them apart. It wasn’t in my college history book - though it happened. However, I did hear of Bloody Mary - even in High School! I never heard of the “Pheasants Rebellion” the Protestant reformer Luther Backed - slaughtering a few thousand poor pheasants - mostly Catholic.
I never heard of Servitus who was Burned with Dry Wood because he made fun of John Calvin’s ideas in Geneva. Calvin could hear his screams across the way of Servitus but didn’t have the guts to watch - though he ordered it. But Servitors was a Jew who was despised by Catholics and Protestants alike. Catholics burned heretics too - admittedly- but with damp wood so the person would suffocate before being burned. Nice touch that. At least there was some compassion from the Catholics in a horrible time of persecution.

I didn’t know that people (after doing a crime) actually sought out the Catholic Inquisition because the trial would be fairer than a civil trial which he could also choose. The Catholic Inquisition at least gave you a lawyer “Devils Advocate” to help in your defense.

Some protestants call us Pagans and not Christians, when without the Catholic Church they wouldn’t even have a Bible.
Mohammad found the Catholic Bible handy too when it came to forming his new religion.

I am sick of the studied Ignorance that would rather believe a Lie than find out the truth of Christs Church. Will it ever end?

Robin

 

[dianaiad]

I am sick of the studied Ignorance that would rather believe a Lie than find out the truth of Christs Church. Will it ever end?
Robin

No, actually, it won’t.

As long as people are afraid of ‘the other,’ and assume that their own religious faith makes them somehow superior to someone who believes differently, and that difference justifies discrimination and/or violence, it won’t end.

Which means…it won’t end.

People are wonderful beings, the children of God. Unfortunately, at least here on earth, the word ‘children’ is more descriptive than it should be. We can’t exactly call ourselves ‘grown ups,’ at least in this area.

 

[majick275]

blue. cerulean blue most of the time; deep navy blue at the moment, grey blue with clouds rarely, and several ranges of peach to orange to pale pink at sunset and sunrise. I think that the color of yours has a few extra hues, however.

Hey, you may not LIKE BY, but at least he MARRIED 'em. All of 'em. Sure, he wasn’t a serial polygamist like the vaunted politicians we have now, and like the governor that Buchanan replaced him with. He married 'em all at once, but he did marry them.

As to the rest of your statement, y’know what? I have given you facts, history, cites and easily confirmed events. I have done so without all that much ‘color,’ too…

And so far all you have done is come up with wild accusations without any background. Ludicrous ones, as well, that come right out of Buchanan’s propaganda…the stuff he not only used to excuse sending his army, but stuff that he knew was untrue; and that historians also know were untrue.

But hey, you are making the claim. You prove it. Except for the polygamy, would you care to tell me exactly WHAT '‘federal law’ that BY was breaking, that justified sending, quite literally, HALF the armed services of the United States after him to replace and arrest him?

And if we did NOT win, why wasn’t BY, y’know, actually arrested?

Because he wasn’t. Consider that; an army. overwhelming force.

Yet somehow the Mormons prevented them from arresting one man and taking him back east.

Ah, but never mind. Again, you are making the claim. G’head. tell me exactly what it was you think that the army actually won.

I think the Army won a hollow victory. they forced wilford woodruff to issue the manifesto and they brought Utah into Statehood…yeah…

BY may have been able to “deal” his way out of arrests but his successor spent most of his “presidency” on the run.

the facts is that criminals get away with things all of the time. when the populace covers for them it’s easy. doesn’t make it right but it happens.

 

[Catholic_miles]

Wow! Where to start??? Sounds like an early form of programming, actually. Repeat as necessary until believed “beyond the shadow of a doubt”.

Just like all those Hail Mary’s, Our Father’s, and other stuff done in Catholic schools daily to get the little kiddies to believe?

 

[Bill_Pick]

If Joseph Smith were alive today, preaching the restored gospel, establishing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, would you kill him? Please assume that you will not be punished by the law, as those who did kill him were not punished.

I have read much on this forum, by Catholics, implying approval of the killing of Joseph Smith. For example. “he died in a gun fight” , he was a con man, was a polygmamist, etc.

this is all true but no i not kill him are any one else dont you beleve the bible you shall not kill

 

[NicoleCook]

Hi

Didn’t Abraham, Issac, David and Solomon polygamist? What would a Catholic do to them in case?

Thanks

yes they were pologymists. That was tolerated in the Old Testament. However It is not allowed in the New Testament so yes they were, but that was before the words of Jesus and and it was an exceptable practice for that time. I don’t belive Christianity existed at that time. so nothing. but if it was now…they would pray for God’s will to bo done.

 

[CromartyLadd]

I would pray for Joseph Smith.