Catholocism the only true choice

[MrS]

why do you do that. Paul never stated that for the cc.
The Church didn’t exist until after the ressurection and then it is a spiritual church of a body of believers not an institution
Other than those erroneous parts I like your answer

We - Catholics - celebrate the birthday of the Church every year at Pentecost. On that day St Peter gave the first sermon after the Holy Spirit confirmed those in the upper room (with Mary at the center of the fearful followers of Jesus )
**
Many other Christians celebrate events like Christmas and Easter, but it seems that only the Catholics make a real big recognition of all of Holy Week, and the Passion of the Lord. Advent, Lent, and so many special feast days make Catholicism not only the true choice…

but an exciting choice… with the greatest of graces, and the of course the most responsibilites.

Being a real Catholic is probably the hardest thing I will ever have to do… but you can’t believe the joy of having John 6 come alive in the Real Presence at every Mass.

He said “I will not leave you orphans”. Wow, He didn’t.

 

[backfrmthebrink]

St Paul did not have to state that. why? because the Church wasnt fully formed yet. read the history of the Church so you can have a better understand how things developed.

God did not become visible to build an invisible Church. that is your excuse because your lack of understanding of the Word of God. you make no sense when you say that. if the Church is invisible why do you bother going to your gathering to hear a man preach to you? where did you get the idea of going to church if the church is invisible? you could just stay home and imagine your invisible church.

I did not say Paul didn’t have to say that…Humm reading apprehension??? I said Paul never said catholic anything!!!
There were churches physically as we all know but when Christ spoke about his church and Rev, for example speaks of the church as a bride and when the body of believers is spoken of it is a spiritual church. I belong as a part of a body of believers along with all those who are saved. THAT is THE Church not the CC. I think we have established that to confront me on a lack of understanding of the Word is an attack and untrue. In fact it is just an attempt to discredit me for those things you cannot argue. Those things found in our Word.

 

[wisdomseeker]

As always I offer proof as anyone else who is a non-cath does on this site and you cannot accept it. My proof is in the Word of God.
Yours is in the cath church and their writings.
Mine is in the finished work of the cross
Yours is in the decisions of the pope and your works
Mine is a salvation by grace for I am not worthy
Yours is in the ability of Mary to appeal for you
Mine is in the direct relationship with my Father and my ability to bring my sins to Him
Yours is in a priest and the amount of pennence you have to do
Mine is by being indwelt and sealed in the Holy Spirit
Yours is by rituals of infant baptism, confirmation mass and the eucharist
You have an alter
My alter is Christ
As I said my proof is in the Word of God. Thanks be to Him because if it was in me I would blow it for sure.

no, you did not prove anything to us. what you are doing is given us your enterpretation of the Word of God. which you dont even realize that is what you are doing.

**
St. Irenaeus in France
“As I have already observed, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith from the Apostles, although scattered throughout the world, yet as if occupying one house, carefully preserves it.” For the churches which have been planted in Germany do not believe or hand down anything different, nor do those in Spain, nor do those in Gaul, nor do those in the East, nor do those in Egypt, nor do those in Libya, nor do those which have been established in the central regions of the world." **

 

[MrS]

As always I offer proof as anyone else who is a non-cath does on this site and you cannot accept it. My proof is in the Word of God.
Yours is in the cath church and their writings.
Mine is in the finished work of the cross
Yours is in the decisions of the pope and your works
Mine is a salvation by grace for I am not worthy
Yours is in the ability of Mary to appeal for you
Mine is in the direct relationship with my Father and my ability to bring my sins to Him
Yours is in a priest and the amount of pennence you have to do
Mine is by being indwelt and sealed in the Holy Spirit
Yours is by rituals of infant baptism, confirmation mass and the eucharist
You have an alter
My alter is Christ
As I said my proof is in the Word of God. Thanks be to Him because if it was in me I would blow it for sure.

Yours sounds pretty easy… like the straight road.

Mine sounds pretty hard… but I have the free will to “pick up my cross and follow Him”

so what is St Paul refering to about making up for what is lacking in Christ’s suffering:blush:

 

[MrS]

I did not say Paul didn’t have to say that…Humm reading apprehension??? I said Paul never said catholic anything!!!
There were churches physically as we all know but when Christ spoke about his church and Rev, for example speaks of the church as a bride and when the body of believers is spoken of it is a spiritual church. I belong as a part of a body of believers along with all those who are saved. THAT is THE Church not the CC. I think we have established that to confront me on a lack of understanding of the Word is an attack and untrue. In fact it is just an attempt to discredit me for those things you cannot argue. Those things found in our Word.

And he never quoted Jesus from the Gospels either… except one time to teach the importance of the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

We got it… no one else does

As for “are saved”… St Paul also teaches was saved, being saved, and will be saved… It is a process, and it can be lost by sin.

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[onetimeposter]

And that is your opinion.

But where has God plainly spoken and stated that there are many paths to Him?

Meanwhile I can turn to the Bible and find where Jesus said that He is the way the truth and the life and that noone comes to the Father except through Him.

So then the issue becomes what shall I trust, your opinion or the Bible.

I think I will trust the Bible on this one, thank you very much.

Except - Why would the God who created the entire Universe, the God who lives outside of time…have only made one route that people can take to get to him?

If your born in India…odds are you will be a Hindu and very clearly worship several Gods…

Are you saying you believe in a God that condemns people to hell for having been born and raised as a Hindu? A person who would have lived their entire life without ever having heard about the Truth of Christianity?

If that is the God you believe in…that does not sound like an all good and loving Deity.

I am a Christian because I was born in Canada, raised by Christian parents…in other words happenstance.

Heaven or Hell cannot be a gamble on where you were born. ( God also decides where we will be born, so why would he choose to have a child born India, raised as a Hindu, never having heard of Christianity, knowing the whole time that he will send that person to hell?)

Now that is not the sign of benevolence.

 

[MrS]

Except - Why would the God who created the entire Universe, the God who lives outside of time…have only made one route that people can take to get to him?

If your born in India…odds are you will be a Hindu and very clearly worship several Gods…

Are you saying you believe in a God that condemns people to hell for having been born and raised as a Hindu? A person who would have lived their entire life without ever having heard about the Truth of Christianity?

If that is the God you believe in…that does not sound like an all good and loving Deity.

I am a Christian because I was born in Canada, raised by Christian parents…in other words happenstance.

Heaven or Hell cannot be a gamble on where you were born. ( God also decides where we will be born, so why would he choose to have a child born India, raised as a Hindu, never having heard of Christianity, knowing the whole time that he will send that person to hell?)

Now that is not the sign of benevolence.

How about this…

a good, God-fearing family living a righteous life for Jesus… and they have a child who is severly retarded and unable to “accept Jesus”

Is he condemned?

The Catholic Church does not judge who is saved. It does however acknowledge the overwhelming Mercy of God. We are all born with a desire to “know God”. If God recognizes the obstacles that cannot be overcome by some we trust in His Mercy to be the Fair Judge.

That would include the “invinceable ignorance” of those outside the Catholic Church.

Another reason why the Catholic Church is the only True Church

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[onetimeposter]

The Catholic Church does not judge who is saved. It does however acknowledge the overwhelming Mercy of God. We are all born with a desire to “know God”. If God recognizes the obstacles that cannot be overcome by some we trust in His Mercy to be the Fair Judge.

.
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Precisely

 

[backfrmthebrink]

no, you did not prove anything to us. what you are doing is given us your enterpretation of the Word of God. which you dont even realize that is what you are doing.

**
St. Irenaeus in France
“As I have already observed, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith from the Apostles, although scattered throughout the world, yet as if occupying one house, carefully preserves it.” For the churches which have been planted in Germany do not believe or hand down anything different, nor do those in Spain, nor do those in Gaul, nor do those in the East, nor do those in Egypt, nor do those in Libya, nor do those which have been established in the central regions of the world." **

yet another non biblical quote. You have never been able to go to the source. God. I guess God is not proof enough unless the CC church approvesw Gods writings. What luanacy
well all I can say then is that your inability to see the truth of the gospel is why the gate is narrow and few will find it unlike the multitudes of catholics who claim no personal interpretation but personally interpret everything and then incorrectly afterall.

 

[backfrmthebrink]

Precisely

The Bible does not teach that we all are born with the desire to know God. In fact we are born with no ability to seek after him
Acts 4:12 “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we are saved.”

 

[estesbob]

Mine is in the finished work of the cross
.

If Christ finished the work on the cross why do i have to accpet him as my savior? Isnt that a “work”? If I have the free will to accpet christ why wouldnt I have the free will to then reject Christ? Is Baptism necessary for salvation?

 

[wisdomseeker]

I did not say Paul didn’t have to say that…Humm reading apprehension??? I said Paul never said catholic anything!!!
There were churches physically as we all know but when Christ spoke about his church and Rev, for example speaks of the church as a bride and when the body of believers is spoken of it is a spiritual church. I belong as a part of a body of believers along with all those who are saved. THAT is THE Church not the CC. I think we have established that to confront me on a lack of understanding of the Word is an attack and untrue. In fact it is just an attempt to discredit me for those things you cannot argue. Those things found in our Word.

prove that the Church of Jesus Christ is suppost to be invisible body.

where in the Bible says that the Church is invisible? i am waiting for your reply.

**Tertullian
“If we desire indeed to act the part of open enemies, not merely of secret offenders, would there be any lacking of strength, whether of numbers or resources?” “We are but of yesterday and we have already filled every place among you – cities, islands, fortresses, towns, marketplaces, the very camp, tribes, companies, palace, senate and forum. We have left nothing for you but the temples of your idols, for now it is the immense number of Christians which make your enemies so few, almost all the inhabitants of your various cities being followers of Christ.” **

does this look like an invisible church to you?

---

 

[wisdomseeker]

yet another non biblical quote. You have never been able to go to the source. God. I guess God is not proof enough unless the CC church approvesw Gods writings. What luanacy
well all I can say then is that your inability to see the truth of the gospel is why the gate is narrow and few will find it unlike the multitudes of catholics who claim no personal interpretation but personally interpret everything and then incorrectly afterall.

that is what Jesus said. "Whoever hears you hears me, whoever rejects you rejects me and my Father.’
‘Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, whatever you loose on earth will be loose in Heaven.’ and no, He is not given this authority to you, He is given this authority to His Church.

can you argue with the Lord of the Church?

St. Thomas Aquinas
"According to the promise of the Lord, the Apostolic Church of Peter remains free from all taint of heresy or deceit in its pontiffs, the Popes, and in the full faith and authority of Peter, and while other churches are shamed by errors, she reigns the solitary Church, unshakably established, imposing silence and closing the mouths of heretics and we, of necessity for our salvation, proclaim and confess this as the pattern of holy, apostolic tradition."

 

[SIA]

If Christ finished the work on the cross why do i have to accpet him as my savior? Isnt that a “work”? If I have the free will to accpet christ why wouldnt I have the free will to then reject Christ? Is Baptism necessary for salvation?

another classic answer with a sharp point. You know good and well what ‘works’ are and more so what they aren’t.

 

[MrS]

another classic answer with a sharp point. You know good and well what ‘works’ are and more so what they aren’t.

I know if my Baptist neighbor decides to make an altar call, say the sinners’ prayer and “accept” Jesus as personal Lord and Savior… he has done three works… none of which are in the Bible.

Sounds like a rocky (and I don’t mean Peter) start to me.

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[SIA]

I know if my Baptist neighbor decides to make an altar call, say the sinners’ prayer and “accept” Jesus as personal Lord and Savior… he has done three works… none of which are in the Bible.

Sounds like a rocky (and I don’t mean Peter) start to me.

.

how are they works? How are they not faith in Christ? Your Bible must not be a version that is very easy to read if you can’t see faith in there. better get a different version. May I suggest the NIV?

 

[estesbob]

another classic answer with a sharp point. You know good and well what ‘works’ are and more so what they aren’t.

Does that mean you dont have an answer? If Christ FINISHED the work on the cross why do I have to take ACTION to accept him as my savior? Either his work was complete or it was not.

 

[estesbob]

how are they works? How are they not faith in Christ? Your Bible must not be a version that is very easy to read if you can’t see faith in there. better get a different version. May I suggest the NIV?

So we all agree his work on the cross wasnt finished. If it was everyone would be saved regardless of whether they accepted him as their savior or not. BTW, your bible must be a strange version also-it appars to contain only about a dozen verses.

 

[Church_Militant]

ChurchMilitant:

You continue to accuse non cath as having placed their faith in something that didn’t exist until 500 years ago but we have placed our faith in scripture from 2000 years ago. I have addressed everything catholic in enough scriptual context and the truth, as you so like to use the term, **the truth is the cc does not stand up to any scriptural scrunity. **

That and that alone should be flags for ewveryone. If you have to refer to other writings of man to support your non scriptural claims then you have no foundation of faith at all.That is a load of rubbish.

Scriptural scrutiny is what the Catholic Church is based upon. From what writings are inspired and canonical all the way to doctrines the scriptures teach.

An objective reading of the Catechism of the Catholic Church or even the Compendium of it will find that the teachings of the Catholic Church are very clearly based upon the Word of God and then they even go on to document the writings of the early church that tie into to those doctrines. Unlike the modern post reformation n-Cs, who claim that their doctrines are based solely upon the scriptures, but the fact is that they are based upon the twisted interpretations of men about 500 years ago.

The fact that early fathers wrote anything means little actually, I didn’t say means nothing but I said little.

And this is precisely why you are so seriously deceived in your beliefs. You adhere to new winds of doctrines of men that can’t stand up to simple objective study of the Bible, and the reason you poo poo the early church fathers is because it takes only a matter of minutes to prove that these faithful Christians who paid for their faith with their lives to realize that the people who were taught by the apostles themselves were very much Catholic in their beliefs and plainly state that the kind of errors that you espouse were gross heresies to be shunned.

Paul states in Gal 1:8??? that if they or an angel from heaven preaches a different doctrine.let them be eternally condemned. That should give you and everyone pause before you so quickly hold up your banner based on the writings of man.

Yeah, right…I have an article that resulted from my study and meditation on this very passage. Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

Compare your own gospel with that of the apostles in the New Testament. Yours is different, while that of the Catholic Church is the same. It’s right there in black and white in the New Testament.

Man is just tha. Man.

Yep… and that is precisely why I will not follow the errant teachings of the “reformers” and their modern step children.

Mary was just Mary, blessed yes but no more the gate keeper of heaven that your writers so aptly claim her to be.

:yawn: More diversion with inaccurate rhetoric, since that is nowhere in authentic Catholic teaching. Though I’m sure that you wish it was.

God says we are to have NO OTHER gODS BEFORE HIM. that does not mean you can after him but it means that He doesn’t even want to see them.

This is the very same rhetorical propaganda that got me digging into the facts of Catholic teaching to begin with. As I state in my testimony.

I have yet to find any faithful Catholics anywhere who worship anyone but the Holy Trinity, so this is (again) just more a-C rhetorical propaganda, (that has been refuted many many times. Iconoclasm: Or: Catholics Worship Graven Images NOT)

As for convincing any cath who is so committed, I find it too powerful a stronghold and yet that is addressed throughout scripture as well. The gate is indeed narrow. Perhaps this is why. God hardens who He hardens.

Yep, that pretty much describes your own position. I beg you to prayerfully reconsider your beliefs and make a serious and objective study of all of this. Check all your sources (and ours!) and let the Holy Spirit help you discern the truth.

Your soul may well hang in the balance because you have been shown the truth and rejected and opposed it.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Church_Militant]

and we do then you always go back to cath writings for your support.

Oh… and so we are supposed to quote some source that isn’t part of the Christian faith? Or better yet just simply accept your sources…(which you never name) as factual.

Bring on the historical facts!

Bring on the sources where you found them and let’s see who’s really telling the truth here.

The FACT is that you are parroting things that men have passed on to you and that you have bought into wholeheartedly. So far you have shown a gross misunderstanding of most Catholic teachings that can be attributed to subjecting yourself to, and believing without questioning men with Bibles, as if that qualifies them.

If you wish to be that gullible then that is fine with the Catholic Church, but please don’t try to get faithful and knowledgeable Catholics what we believe, or expect us to abandon our most holy faith just on your word.

You make a lot of statements, assertions, and allegations, but offer almost no citations of sources and when a Catholic refutes you from the Word of God and then cites sources of early Christian writings and or other authentic and authoritative Catholic documents that affirm what we believe in contradiction to modern post reformation heresies, you want to discount them. Yet the fact is that the sources we cite are easily verifiable.

Who do you think had greater credibility? The early church fathers who served God faithfully and even died a martyr’s death during the first 300 years of Christian history or you and your anti-Catholic preachers and teachers, who in most cases have never even read the writings of the early church?

You need to think about that…

BTW all any religion needs to do to claim they are the oldest especially if they hold a position of “Bishop” is to claim the Apostles as their first head of their church.

Really? Prove it! Show us these others. I don’t think you can.

The cc has no corner market on this but other religions seems to have a bit less greed and a bit more integrity. The lie is so old and the business of the cc very powerful that many have bought into it. sad.

Here all you offer is inflammatory and offensive rhetoric. Greed my foot! The Catholic Church rarely gets into the black, mainly because of the charitable works that she carries out that no one blows a horn in the streets to announce.

What did your faith community do for the hurricane victims in Burma (Myanmar)?

What did your faith community do for the Tsunami victims in Indonesia?

What does your faith community do for the people in need in your city regardless of their religious affiliation?

You check into it and see if you can justify your last remarks.

As for integrity…you don’t find Catholics preaching a prosperity gospel, telling people that abortion is a matter of conscience, ordaining women clergy, or preaching a compare and contrast message against the religion of the people down the street instead of teaching us how to better follow Christ through the preaching of the Word of God at every Mass and in every document that issues from the Pope.

If this is your version of “witnessing” to us Catholics then don’t be surprised that you have no takers.