Caught between Diocese and Parish Priest

[laforec]

Hello, I am a youth minister. We have a program that is susposed to help protect our children. Anyone working in with children need screening a police clearences. The Diocese has been calling me to ensure i am implementing the program. Our parish has not been using, and it has been out for 5 years. Our priest said that he doesn’t want to lose volunteers, so he doesn’t want it. I have finally convinced him of the importance, b/c the Diocese told me if my adults don’t go through the program, on a field trip if their was an accident, there would be no insurance coverage. So he conceided, but only what is directly my area of ministry. There is lots of minsitry to the vulnerable, children and seniors who are not under youth ministry. I am not sure what to do. I’m being told insistently by the diocese we must have it in place. I’m doing it for my area, but the pastoral minister does not want to do it b/c it is too much work and b/c father says no. Do i tell the Diocese, or be obedient to my direct supervisor, since the diocese is only my indrect employer… please help…

 

[alexaustralia]

Hi,

I was in youth ministry for 6 years, just stopped this year and my brother in law is a youth minister. Child protection ought to be a high priority, the risks are too high to play with. Even if it means loosing volunteers. If you have inadequate leaders/volunteers then not only do you have to worry about the youth but them as well. The hard work of fixing an allegation (specially of the sexual kind) is enough to do the hard yard in getting leaders trained. A child’s safety should not be compromised and I suggest to get your priest and parish onboard.

Just out of interest what does the program entails?
lifeteenaustralia.com/castlehill/lifeteen/
Alex

 

[I_A]

First off, pray.

Let’s say the Vatican issues a decree about the liturgy.
It’s the bishop’s job to make sure the priests impliment it.
Its the priest’s job to ensure the laity follows it.
The laity should follow it.

What if there is a problem with the chain of command? What happens if the priest refuses to impliment it? A lay person talks to the priest privately about it. If the priest refuses to listen the lay person brings several people to the priest to talk about it. If he still refuses to listen the lay person writes a letter to the bishop, notifiying him of it, and leaving it in God’s providence.

There is a chain of command, and there is a set way to deal with problems in the chain of command. I would imagine something similar works with employees of a parish. I would imagine the next thing is to talk to the person in charge of parish finances and perhaps one more person to talk to him about it in a group. Schedule a time where you all can sit down and discuss it. If he still refuses to listen you may then write a letter to the bishop, notifying him of it

Perhaps the priest has reservations about the moral content of the training, I have not heard many good things about these training things, that he doesn’t wish to spread among his flock. Perhaps he has good reasons.

Most of all pray about it.

 

[puzzleannie]

first of all this is not an issue about liturgy so let’s not change the topic.

this is an issue about priests and lay employees of the diocese obeying diocesan policy.

with regard to any lay employee with responsiblity for youth and children, you are also vulnerable to personal liability lawsuits, as well as to being a party in any lawsuit brought against the parish or diocese if a child in your care suffers an injury. your personal failure to comply with diocesan guidelines on child safety, transportation, supervision etc. will be a strong factor in any such judgement.

Your priest has no discretion about implementing child safety policies mandated by the bishop. The bishop does have the right to determine what policies, and what programs to implement the policies, are used in his diocese. He is not required to follow the USCCB recommendations. But his priests and lay employees are required to obey him.

Personally I would not open myself up to risk and vulnerability by working in a parish that ignored such rules and regulations.

 

[Orionthehunter]

first of all this is not an issue about liturgy so let’s not change the topic.

this is an issue about priests and lay employees of the diocese obeying diocesan policy.

with regard to any lay employee with responsiblity for youth and children, you are also vulnerable to personal liability lawsuits, as well as to being a party in any lawsuit brought against the parish or diocese if a child in your care suffers an injury. your personal failure to comply with diocesan guidelines on child safety, transportation, supervision etc. will be a strong factor in any such judgement.

Your priest has no discretion about implementing child safety policies mandated by the bishop. The bishop does have the right to determine what policies, and what programs to implement the policies, are used in his diocese. He is not required to follow the USCCB recommendations. But his priests and lay employees are required to obey him.

Personally I would not open myself up to risk and vulnerability by working in a parish that ignored such rules and regulations.

As you have information of your direct supervisor not conforming to policy of his superior, you have an obligation to inform them of this problem. To fail to do so makes you an accomplice.

 

[Teakafrog]

Notify the Bishop. You’ve obviously alerted the priest many times, so now just report him. The next phone call you get, tell them “Fr. X has said not to do this, would you let the bishop know that?” Then send a letter to the bishop yourself.

 

[laforec]

Notify the Bishop. You’ve obviously alerted the priest many times, so now just report him. The next phone call you get, tell them “Fr. X has said not to do this, would you let the bishop know that?” Then send a letter to the bishop yourself.

That is quite the difficult thing to do when the Parish Priest is your employer and your income pays the bills.

 

[Karin]

That is quite the difficult thing to do when the Parish Priest is your employer and your income pays the bills.

If the Priest will not listen to you that this needs to be done for the SAFTEY of the CHILDREN and to PROTECT you all FROM POTENTIAL lawsuits than you need to go over his head to HIS BOSS and report him!
These rules are in effect for a reason…I question WHY he does not want this done…too much work is a lame excuse, IMHO. And this also makes me wonder WHAT father is hiding…an innocent person has nothing to hide

 

[Karin]

Also why arent the parents questioning you on why this is not being done…especially if this is a Diocese rule.
Or are you lieing to the parents also?

 

[ErichsGurl2]

Hello, I am a youth minister. We have a program that is susposed to help protect our children. Anyone working in with children need screening a police clearences. The Diocese has been calling me to ensure i am implementing the program. Our parish has not been using, and it has been out for 5 years. Our priest said that he doesn’t want to lose volunteers, so he doesn’t want it. I have finally convinced him of the importance, b/c the Diocese told me if my adults don’t go through the program, on a field trip if their was an accident, there would be no insurance coverage. So he conceided, but only what is directly my area of ministry. There is lots of minsitry to the vulnerable, children and seniors who are not under youth ministry. I am not sure what to do. I’m being told insistently by the diocese we must have it in place. I’m doing it for my area, but the pastoral minister does not want to do it b/c it is too much work and b/c father says no. Do i tell the Diocese, or be obedient to my direct supervisor, since the diocese is only my indrect employer… please help…

Tell the Diocese. It is an obligation for us all as Catholics and as human beings to make certain that those in need of help whether for faith building, or visits to the elderly that everyone is safe and protected. Further more, I would point out that there is quite a bit of scandal surrounding the Church regarding sex abuse, and it is an obligation of any parish regardless of losing volunteers to make sure that this process is implemented, not only to protect parishioners but the Church’s reputation in fixing the issues at hand. If the minister becomes upset about it, then maybe he should take the time to review his priorities.

 

[mosher]

Even though I strongly think that these child abuse prevention workshops and the like are useless since they don’t actually stop any type of predatory behavior or otherwise effective except as a legal buffer for a diocese or parish I also think that your pastor has an obligation to be obedient in all lawful matters to his Bishop. Than being said he has an obligation to comply with the program and I would strongly recommend that you speak to him about his need to be obedient to his Bishop. However, a warning would be that if and when you go over his head to the Bishop your job security will most likely be in jeopardy.

 

[Karin]

Even though I strongly think that these child abuse prevention workshops and the like are useless since they don’t actually stop any type of predatory behavior or otherwise effective except as a legal buffer for a diocese or parish I also think that your pastor has an obligation to be obedient in all lawful matters to his Bishop. Than being said he has an obligation to comply with the program and I would strongly recommend that you speak to him about his need to be obedient to his Bishop. However, a warning would be that if and when you go over his head to the Bishop your job security will most likely be in jeopardy.

he may be in jeopardy…but it would open “father” up to a lawsuit.

 

[Damascus]

Karin,

It just occured to me that the diocese in question here would most likely want copies of the clearance paperwork.

I wonder why they are not saying , Hey- where is the paper on XYZ parish??

Likely they would want to use the CYA formula to avoid any messy situations?
It seems weird to me thats all.

 

[Orionthehunter]

That is quite the difficult thing to do when the Parish Priest is your employer and your income pays the bills.

All of us in our jobs may be faced with choices that may jeopardize our jobs. We need to trust that when we do what God requires, we will not only survive but prosper in the long-term (eternity). In light of the legal settlements our church has had to bear and the damage done to the victims, this is not a matter to trifle with. Your obligation is actually quite clear and unanbigous.

 

[tequilamac]

Hello, I am a youth minister. We have a program that is susposed to help protect our children. Anyone working in with children need screening a police clearences. The Diocese has been calling me to ensure i am implementing the program. Our parish has not been using, and it has been out for 5 years. Our priest said that he doesn’t want to lose volunteers, so he doesn’t want it. I have finally convinced him of the importance, b/c the Diocese told me if my adults don’t go through the program, on a field trip if their was an accident, there would be no insurance coverage. So he conceided, but only what is directly my area of ministry. There is lots of minsitry to the vulnerable, children and seniors who are not under youth ministry. I am not sure what to do. I’m being told insistently by the diocese we must have it in place. I’m doing it for my area, but the pastoral minister does not want to do it b/c it is too much work and b/c father says no. Do i tell the Diocese, or be obedient to my direct supervisor, since the diocese is only my indrect employer… please help…

1. You say the priest agreed for you to follow the program in your ministry. You do not say that you did so.
2. Why is the Diocese bothering you about the other ministries? Are you also in charge of all other ministries in the parish?
3. You claim there are many vulnerable, children and seniors at risk but you are afraid of angering the priest and losing your job. so you simply leave the others at risk.
4. During the time you had no clearances did you just lie to the parents about it?

You should seek other employment immediately. If I was a parent with a child in your care, I would seriously question your judgement.

(You do not have a lady named Cathy working as a Youth Leader do you?)

 

[laforec]

Also why arent the parents questioning you on why this is not being done…especially if this is a Diocese rule.
Or are you lieing to the parents also?

I don’t believe the parishioners are really aware of the policy. Also, all my programs are using the program. So my but is covered. It is the other programs run by the Pastoral minister that are not using it. Children’s ministries are under the pastoral minister, youth ministry (my area is grade 4 to young adults)

 

[laforec]

Karin,

It just occured to me that the diocese in question here would most likely want copies of the clearance paperwork.

I wonder why they are not saying , Hey- where is the paper on XYZ parish??

Likely they would want to use the CYA formula to avoid any messy situations?
It seems weird to me thats all.

We are a Canadian Diocese, and the Diocese has no form in place of checking on the program compliance.

 

[laforec]

1. You say the priest agreed for you to follow the program in your ministry. You do not say that you did so.
2. Why is the Diocese bothering you about the other ministries? Are you also in charge of all other ministries in the parish?
3. You claim there are many vulnerable, children and seniors at risk but you are afraid of angering the priest and losing your job. so you simply leave the others at risk.
4. During the time you had no clearances did you just lie to the parents about it?

You should seek other employment immediately. If I was a parent with a child in your care, I would seriously question your judgement.

(You do not have a lady named Cathy working as a Youth Leader do you?)

I find you comment very rude. This is a difficult situation. Obviously you don’t understand the internal politics of the church. It is very easy for Lay people to point fingers, but it is much more difficult for those who work in the church. All my programs are in compliance with the Diocese. I am talking about the other ministries in the parish that do not use the program. IF it wasnt’ for me working in the parish, there would be ZERO compliance! Please be more kind in your words in the future.

 

[Damascus]

We are a Canadian Diocese, and the Diocese has no form in place of checking on the program compliance.

South park comes to mind here. “Blame Canada”!

Truly I am sorry to hear that. What the heck? This makes no sense to me!

 

[Sam88]

It helps that your immediate area is complying with the program. If you believe that other church programs are not complying I think you have an obligation to report that fact to the bishop.

If you are seriously concerned for your job it might be acceptable if you get someone else to make the report, as long as you know for certain that it has been reported.

After that, it is the bishop’s responsibility and not yours to take furthur action.