Caught off guard -- I couldn't explain the Trinity

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Gabika50 said:
Show then John 1:1-16 which illustrates what trinity is.
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As a non-Trinitarian Christian, I’ll never understand how John 1 justifies Trinitarian belief.

Verse 1:
a) In the beginning was the Word,
b) and the Word was with God,
c) and the Word was God.

line b above clearly contradicts Trinitarian Doctrine since there can only be one God and the Word is something other than that one God. If line b said “the Word was with the Father”, then Trinitarian belief would align with the verse. That’s my $0.02 worth…
 
@gazelam Welcome, Latter-day Saint. I started this thread for help explaining the official Catholic teaching about the Trinity. If you don’t mind, could you return the favor? I mean this sincerely. Could you explain, point for point, how LDS theology has a better understanding of God? If that’s too much, maybe you could give me a quick sketch. I have a basic understanding from having visited the LDS Web site. But if you could go a bit deeper, I would really appreciate.
 
@mhmtas63, God bless you for joining this discussion. If you started a thread in the non-Catholic religions forum, you could outline Islamic teachings about God point by point. I’m sorry if I sound like a teacher giving an assignment. I’m making a suggestion. God bless you!
 
mhmtas63 said:
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Wesrock:
All three persons are co-eternal,
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Three co-eternal persons(gods)!
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God. Earlier I asked a question. Do you uave any thoughts? Here it is again:
What does it mean for a man to know something? I’m talking about a philosophy of knowledge. When he knows something, he has the pattern of it in his mind, yes? Not a physical pattern, but knowledge of what it is, yes? He grasps it as an abstract concept, a universal. Yes?
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Dear Friends in Christ:

Thanks to all of you who have answered my original post about how to explain to Holy Trinity according to Catholic teaching. You have helped me to better understand this mystery, thus increasing my faith. I can’t thank you enough. I continue to read your posts with great interest, although I am not responding to each of your posts.

God bless you!
 
Wesrock said:
What does it mean for a man to know something? I’m talking about a philosophy of knowledge. When he knows something, he has the pattern of it in his mind, yes? Not a physical pattern, but knowledge of what it is, yes? He grasps it as an abstract concept, a universal. Yes?
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Why do you ask that? Where do you intend to go?

Knowledge related to the known(matter, case, act, fact…). Otherwise it cannot be knowledge but just conjectures and thoughts.

And yes knowing is not just physical at all. Ofcourse the mind help it as physically but there is more. And knowing something means you have abstract concept of it but not physical presence of it.

Yes. What do you intend to conclude?
 
My point is that what you’re really doing when you quote scripture is providing your own private interpretation. “Scripture says…” is really just “I believe scripture says…” Quoting scripture at each other is pointless. It’s only someone’s opinion, unless it’s God’s human agent, protected by God from error and appointed to that purpose, who is doing the interpreting. I’ll wager you don’t claim to be that. The passages you cite were given to you by God through the Catholic Church. That’s my authority. What’s yours?

Regarding the plurality of gods, it’s not a leap to go from your mention of ‘eternal things’ to that. It’s a core Mormon teaching.

Finally, quoting a Benedictine’s comment on the ex materia creation found in the Hebrew of Genesis says nothing about whether ex nihilo creation is true. Line upon line, precept upon precept.
 
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For simple ( not simplistic ) people the shamrock is a tidy description of the Blessed Trinity.
Some people are more compex and require a more complex formula.
it reminds me of a well known poem that begins with
" Know then thyself , Presume not God to scan "
As for me I like the analogy of Water.
Water has three states -
Fluid, as in flowing Solid, as in ice and gaseous as in steam
All three states are completely water, and yet distinct from each other
 
God pointing to himself and saying “Brothers and sisters, I have none; this man;s father is my father’s son”
 
njlisa said:
@gazelam Welcome, Latter-day Saint. I started this thread for help explaining the official Catholic teaching about the Trinity. If you don’t mind, could you return the favor? I mean this sincerely. Could you explain, point for point, how LDS theology has a better understanding of God? If that’s too much, maybe you could give me a quick sketch. I have a basic understanding from having visited the LDS Web site. But if you could go a bit deeper, I would really appreciate.
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The sincere question is appreciated and given the time and space limitations I may leave something out!

I suppose I could point to a verse here and there showing that The Father and the Son are distinct and visible to the righteous (such as Stephen’s vision of Jesus on the right hand of God) or Paul’s statement that Jesus is in the express image of God to show that The Father has a corporeal body. But, all I can really say is that matters of faith have to be experienced personally.

John 7:17 states “If any man do the will of him; he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”

All I can say is that I (to the best of my ability) follow the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And it some point I began to have experiences that seem to resemble those awaiting the faithful as described in the Bible (and the Book of Mormon). Prayers are answered that seem to be more than mere coincidentce. From time to time I have the experiences described in Luke 24:32 (Then they said to each other, “Were not our hearts burning [within us] while he spoke to us on the way and opened the scriptures to us"?), Isaiah 58:9, and Isaiah 58:11.

So, in my simple mind I’ve put John 7:17 to the test and I’ve been blessed to “know the [Latter-day Saint] doctrine”. Unlike Stephen, I haven’t seen a vision of God and Jesus, but have received other tremendous spiritual blessings. I believe that experiencing the Divine (to what ever degree the Divine allows) is a better personal gauge of being on the the right track doctrinally than confirming the meaning of words in ancient languages (which I most certainly attempt to do!). I hope this helps…

PS - In case you are unaware the Encyclopedia of Mormonism is available on line where you can look things up topically. See http://eom.byu.edu/
 
I think it’s the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed but I can’t be sure on the minor variations because the exact wording also differs from country to country.
 
I like the analogy of the Sun (as Holy Trinity) which we deem as one single being/object:
  • Essence of the Sun (the Father)
  • Light of the Sun (the Son)
  • Heat of the Sun (the Holy Spirit)
One Sun = One God
 
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