Cause of homosexuality

[Trunicate09]

If there was a pill to cure homosexuality what do you think would happen? And why?

Why does one assume that being homosexual is something that needs to be cured?

 

[Trunicate09]

Pray for a cure or treatment for homosexuality.

Ugh that’s just horrible.

 

[brittrossiter]

Why does one assume that being homosexual is something that needs to be cured?

Cured is not necessarily the right word. Mastered would be a better word. The desire to engage in same sex activity, as with any other extramarital sexual activity, needs to be mastered, because such activity is contrary to natural law and God’s design for our lives and our bodies, regardless of the desire’s origin.

I do not find it too productive speculating as to the cause of the desires themselves, except where it may lead to ways to better deal with the temptations.

 

[Dousias]

I don’t have time to watch the video right now.

I have become aware of the emerging science of the epigenome. This is an area of study about how genes are turned on and off and how their expression is modified.

That, in a nutshell, seems to be close to what the problem with same-sex attraction may be – an error or problem in the way sexuality is expressed and modified.

As that field develops, I believe a cure or treatment for homosexuality will be found. It is probably not far off.

Pray for a cure or treatment for homosexuality.

Hi Crumpy,

You and many other people on this forum are still trying to perpetuate the myth that bisexuals and homosexuals are attempting to change who they are. Granted the Church has created any number of guilt ridden people who think they are defective and can get “fixed.” For those there is little hope because it really is genetically programmed. The solution is to live with who you are, not who other people want you to be.

Blessed be, Dousias

 

[Dousias]

If there was a pill to cure homosexuality what do you think would happen? And why?

Buffalo,

A pill to “cure” queer people… I hate to burst your bubble, but in my experience gay people are happy with who they are. It’s judgmental people who need a pill to cure discriminatory mindsets.

Blessed be, Dousias

 

[buffalo]

Why does one assume that being homosexual is something that needs to be cured?

At the very least it needs to be overcome since it violates natural law.

 

[buffalo]

Buffalo,

A pill to “cure” queer people… I hate to burst your bubble, but in my experience gay people are happy with who they are. It’s judgmental people who need a pill to cure discriminatory mindsets.

Blessed be, Dousias

Oh really.

So I am denied the right to judge behavior, but you are allowed to do so?

 

[jpk1313]

The cause of homosexuality, bisexuality and heterosexuality is biological in origin - genetic, etc.

It has absolutely nothing to do with sin, possession, being raised by a strong or domineering mother, exposure to gay people, etc.

That is a lie. If it were true than any impulse we have is genetic and we have no control over our choices. This type of reasoning leads to not having to take responseablity for their actions. if it is genetic that every impuse is genetic it would be saying “I hade no choice I had to kill those people I was born this way”.

 

[Dousias]

That is a lie. If it were true than any impulse we have is genetic and we have no control over our choices. This type of reasoning leads to not having to take responseablity for their actions. if it is genetic that every impuse is genetic it would be saying “I hade no choice I had to kill those people I was born this way”.

Dear Jpk,

No it not a lie. We are talking about a hard-wired brain connection, not an impulse. And no, not all impulses are wrong. The assumption that SSA is the same as homicide is ludicrous.

About responsibility… We are responsible to make life choices with the good of all in mind. We create a stable, happy and worthwhile society for all when we do so. Acceptance of issues not exactly to our liking is a part of responsible adulthood and that too helps our society.

Question. What would God say about SSA if She was sitting next to you? (She is because She is everywhere!) God is perfect and created perfect people. Period. I would love to sit alongside you two and listen in on how you came up with the idea that SSA is somehow going against His Grand Plan. " I read it in the Bible" you might say. Or, “I listen to what the Catholic Church says.” Hmmm, seems like “Mans word” is now better than “Gods word!” I like to think He would ask you to rethink your stance and consider what God would do and listen less to what people do.

A gentle reminder that Neale Donald Walsh’s Conversations with God series is a great way to tap into an accurate concept of God energy.

Blessed be, Dousias

 

[Dousias]

Oh really.

So I am denied the right to judge behavior, but you are allowed to do so?

Yes Buffalo, you are being judgmental. Being judgmental is not a wrongness but in this case you and others are being very judgmental in a very negative way. Attraction just is and by itself cannot be a wrongness.

Blessed be, Dousias

 

[fix]

No it not a lie. We are talking about a hard-wired brain connection, not an impulse. And no, not all impulses are wrong. The assumption that SSA is the same as homicide is ludicrous.

Are all congentital conditions ordered correctly simply because they occur in nature? Is that the standard?

About responsibility… We are responsible to make life choices with the good of all in mind. We create a stable, happy and worthwhile society for all when we do so. Acceptance of issues not exactly to our liking is a part of responsible adulthood and that too helps our society.

See, it is not simply about “like” and “dislike”. It is much deeper. It is about right and wrong.

Question. What would God say about SSA if She was sitting next to you? (She is because She is everywhere!) God is perfect and created perfect people. Period. I would love to sit alongside you two and listen in on how you came up with the idea that SSA is somehow going against His Grand Plan. " I read it in the Bible" you might say. Or, “I listen to what the Catholic Church says.” Hmmm, seems like “Mans word” is now better than “Gods word!” I like to think He would ask you to rethink your stance and consider what God would do and listen less to what people do.

A gentle reminder that Neale Donald Walsh’s Conversations with God series is a great way to tap into an accurate concept of God energy.

Blessed be, Dousias

How do you define health and disease? Are they arbitrary?

 

[buffalo]

Yes Buffalo, you are being judgmental. Being judgmental is not a wrongness but in this case you and others are being very judgmental in a very negative way. Attraction just is and by itself cannot be a wrongness.

Blessed be, Dousias

Please show me again how I was judgmental.

 

[Chochy]

I want to thank you ALL for your entries in this thread.

Can someone please explain how you are able to include another person’s quote in the body of your responses? I can’t figure out how you do that and it would make my entries more effective.

I am very interested in this topic. I am actively involved in healing ministry (emotional, physical, spiritual and relational) and want to learn as much as I can about sexuality and the sexual experiences of others. I am more interested in collecting information and not very interested in forming opinions. Opinions can be more damaging than helpful in healing ministry.

I’ve come to believe a great deal in the words of Augustine “Our hearts are restless until they find their rest in You our Lord”.

Some of the comments that I find interesting are:

“To live with who you are”. If we are born male and desire to become a female, how is this living with who we are? I talked to a person who had both female and male parts who had no desire to make a choice between genders. They said God created them that way and they liked themselves just as they were.

I have prayed with woman who cannot accept the size of their breasts and I have prayed with woman who have lost their breasts to cancer, who love their bodies and are grateful for the experience.

“At the very least it needs to be overcome because it violates natural law”.

Can we ignore natural law? I believe this is a legitimate fact, however, so many children are born to parents who will never be capable of caring for them. Our community has challenges because so many children are born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

“Attraction just is and by itself cannot be a wrongness”.

I have prayed with many people who have told me that their attractions toward others have gone away once they developed a closer more personal relationship with God. Many of them who were married, no longer had any desire to go outside of their marriage. This has been the case for both OS and SSA. Is it possible that some people are healed/cured and need to be while others do not?

“We are responsible to make life choices with the good of all in mind”. I have met with individuals who have been married for many years. They have children who are deeply hurt when they leave their marriages to pursue relationships with same sex partners. I can’t imagine having to make a more difficult decision. I pray for these families often.

Thank you once again.

 

[Dousias]

Are all congentital conditions ordered correctly simply because they occur in nature? Is that the standard?

Ahhh Fix,
You are correct sir! No one would argue that point, but SSA is a specific issue that the Church makes a very definite stand on. That stand is fundamentally flawed. It assumes SSA is something that can be “healed” and the SSA just goes away.

fix:

See, it is not simply about “like” and “dislike”. It is much deeper. It is about right and wrong.

Yes it is. We are given “choice” by our Creator to do as we please and are expected to make a better choice than a “baser” man might make. Our choices become our experience. That experience then melds with others to create a better world.

Right or wrong? What is the "wrong"here? SSA is neither, it just is. The Church is the source of opinion on many matters of the faithful’s life. For the most part the teachings are logical and contribute to a happy, joyful life. But it would be foolish to believe all teachings “hit the mark.” Don’t fret about this point too much because this is a failing of all religions, all philosophies, not just Catholicism.

fix:

How do you define health and disease? Are they arbitrary?

Define context, please?

Blessed be, Dousias

 

[Dousias]

Please show me again how I was judgmental.

Hi Buffalo,

Here is the post you reference:

A pill to “cure” queer people… I hate to burst your bubble, but in my experience gay people are happy with who they are. It’s judgmental people who need a pill to cure discriminatory mindsets.

Blessed be, Dousias

Judgmental is defined as:

judgmental, judgemental [dʒʌdʒˈmɛntəl]
adj
of or denoting an attitude in which judgments about other people’s conduct are made

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged 6th Edition 2003. © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

By Collins definition, people who “judge” others are being “judgmental.”
It would appear you qualify! (As do we all!)

The problem is when we “judge” wrongly.

Blessed be, Dousias

 

[Dousias]

At the very least it needs to be overcome since it violates natural law.

Hi again,

The “natural law” you speak of doesn’t exist in the animal kingdom.

Blessed be, Dousias

 

[Sonic]

Source: saint-mike.org/warfare/library/secret.asp

Three Secret Strategies of Satan to Destroy our Children, our Families, our Culture, and our Church by Bro. Ignatius Mary

Part one:

**Never Judge Anyone **?

As just stated above, error has no dignity except as a possible motivator to
lead us to truth. But if we are not confronted in our error, how can we be
motivated to move toward truth?

St. Paul instructs us to judge:

*I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus who is
to judge the living and the dead,… preach the word, be urgent in
season and out of season, convince, rebuke, and exhort, be
unfailing in patience and in teaching. For a time is coming when
people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears
they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own
likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and
wander into myths.—2 Timothy 4:2-4 *

We are to judge the teaching of teachers, the opinions of people, the
attitudes and behaviors of people. If we don’t, then we allow sin and Satan to
exploit the weak and ignorant and vulnerable with his lies.

We are to preach the Truth and rebuke those who assert error—not in an
attitude of rock throwing or some sort of controlling self-righteousness, but
in a loving attitude of helping the person return to God (2 Timothy 4:2). We
are our brothers’ keepers (ref., Mark 12:31; Luke 10:25-37; Matthew 7:12;
18:23-35; Luke 6:31). We have a responsibility to warn and admonish our
brethren in the faith, just as we have a responsibility to our blood-brothers to
warn them when they go astray because we love them.

St. Paul to the Romans exhorted good Catholics to instruct one another
(Romans 15:14). To instruct someone necessarily means to evaluate
(another word for judge) the one to whom instruction is given.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states (No 1868): *"… we have a
responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
by (among several actions on our part) not disclosing or not hindering them
when we have an obligation to do so." *

We cannot “disclose” a sin without first assessing (yet another word for
judging) that the sin is in fact there in the first place.
In addition, one of the traditional seven Spiritual Works of Mercy is to
"Admonish the sinner."

Again, we cannot admonish that which we refuse to recognize in the sinner.
We must make an assessment (judgment) that the person is sinning and
thus “needs” admonishment.

All of this sometimes requires “tough love”.

Our model in this tough love is no less that Jesus Himself (who, contrary to
popular opinion was not a 60’s flower child with flowers in his hair repeating
a mantra of peace and love). Jesus preached a demanding love, a love so
demanding that in some cases it would rip apart families:

*“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I
did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to
turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a
daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law – a man’s enemies
will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves
his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone
who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of
me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is
not worthy of me.”—Matthew 10:34-38 *

Truth cannot be compromised—even if it makes enemies of our relatives.
Some people will not accept the truth and will hate those who preach it.
Truth demands judgment; that is, truth demands we see things truthfully
and to call things what they are. If we see sin or error, we must call it for
what it is.

The Bible is filled with passages talking about how we are to judge others.
Before listing some of those, first let us look at the kind of judgment we are
not to do.

The most famous of the several “do not judge” passages are found at
Matthew 7:1-3

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you
pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own…"

In this passage we see three kinds of judgment we are not to do:

1. Judgment of Condemnation:

Judgment in this passage is referring to condemning (“pronouncing”
judgment on a person’s soul). We are not the “Judge” to pronounce
condemnation on anyone (not even ourselves). Only God can do that.
The Church, for example, never pronounces “anyone” in hell. And even
in the assessment of a person declared a saint, it is done by special
dispensation granted to the Church by her authority of the “keys”. But
even with this authority, we need to note that it is never applied to
judging a person in hell. If the Church, who has the authority of the
keys will not judge a person to condemnation, how can we? We are
never to judge a person’s state of soul. Jesus tells us that we will
receive ourselves the judgment of soul that we place on others if we
attempt this usurpation of God’s sovereignty.

1. Judgment from Double–Standards:

When we use double–standards for judgment, apply one measure to
others and a different measure to ourselves we commit a sin. Jesus
says that we will not get by with that (a form of hypocrisy). The
standards we apply to others will be applied to us as well.

1. Judgment from Self-Righteousness:

The last sentence of the passage quoted refers to seeing sins in others
but not in oneself. This is self-righteousness (another form of
hypocrisy).

 

[Sonic]

Source: saint-mike.org/warfare/library/secret.asp

Part 2:

In this passage, Jesus does not say that we cannot judge. He says that we are not to judge in the manner of presuming condemnation on another or to make judgments borne from hypocrisy (double-standard & self- righteousness).

In verse 5 Jesus continues: You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."

Taking the speck out of our brother’s eye is not condemned in itself. Hypocritical judgment is what Jesus condemns.

We can immediately see this is the meaning of these passages by going on to the very next verse:

*Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you. *

Dogs? Swine? How are we to know who is a dog or a swine? We cannot take Jesus’ advice, which is advice for self-protection (e.g. when Jesus said the swine will “turn to attack you”), if we do not judge a person, that is, to identify a person as a metaphorical “dog” or “swine.”

Who are the dogs and swine? Verse 15 gives us one clue when it talks about false prophets who come in sheep’s clothing. Verse 21 Jesus talks about people calling to him, “Lord, Lord” yet some of these will not enter heaven. They will not enter heaven because despite their calling upon the name of the Lord, they are people who refuse to do God’s will.

Verse 26 tells us more about these people. They are people who do not just fail to follow God’s will, but who actively disobey the teachings of Jesus and thus they build their house on sand (and that includes disobeying the Church, who has been given authority to speak infallibly and definitively in Jesus’ name to the faithful—when the Church speaks, Jesus speaks).

Throughout Scripture we are given examples of these dogs and swine and are repeatedly told to shun them, to avoid them, and even to kick them out of our community as to give them up to Satan.

In Matthew 10:13-14 Jesus tells the disciples to shake the very dust off their clothes of any city that refuses to listen to them. That requires a judgment. St. Paul in Titus 3:9-11 tells us to warn a heretic (divisive person) twice and then have nothing more to do with him because such a person is “perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned.” We don’t condemn him, he condemns himself, but we do judge him to be divisive beyond tolerance because we tried to admonish him (judge his behavior and warn him of his sin) twice but he would not repent.

St. Paul commands us in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 to not associate with people calling themselves Christians who are “guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber—not even to eat with such a one.” Then Paul actually says and confirms in black and white language in verse 12 without any shades of gray that we are to judge our fellow Christians (but interestingly to not to judge those outside of the church): *“Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside.” *We are our brother’s keeper and if we love, we will admonish a brother in sin
or error.

St. Paul also tells us in 2 Timothy 3:1-9 that we are to avoid people who are *“holding to a form of religion but denying the power of it” *(e.g., liberals who strip our Church of its sacramental power). Other we are to avoid include those who are “Lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God…”.

And finally, St. Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 that some people must be excommunicated—completely removed from fellowship and handed over to Satan. Paul specifically says, *“I have already pronounced judgment in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing… you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” *

This form of judgment (excommunication), by the way, is one reserved to the Church and is not a personal judgment exacted by the faithful. Jesus, Himself, calls for this formal judgment on the part of the Church in Matthew 18:15-18.

As we have seen, the idea we are not to judge is a lie.

We cannot judge a person’s state of soul, of course. We cannot condemn him. We are also not to judge out of hypocrisy.

But we are to make proper judgments, borne out of love, to admonish a sinner in order to encourage him to repentance. That is the goal, to save the sinner’s soul, to lead him to repentance.

We are to make judgments of behavior, attitudes, and ideas in order to protect our loved-ones and ourselves from danger. People who practice such dangerous and sinful behaviors, or have such dangerous attitudes and ideas, we are to avoid. We cannot avoid them until and unless a judgment has been made that such people are of the type the Bible tells us to avoid. The idea we are not to judge is a doctrine of demons.

Satan would love us to avoid making judgments. If he can convince us of this, sin can abound without criticism and we could continue in our sin without accountability and the philosophies of Satan can contaminate all of us with impunity unchecked and unchallenged.

Oh, how Satan loves those who think we are not to judge and those who think Jesus was a love-freak hippie from the 60’s.

 

[buffalo]

Hi again,

The “natural law” you speak of doesn’t exist in the animal kingdom.

Blessed be, Dousias

Animals that only act in a homosexual way reproduce?

 

[buffalo]

Hi Buffalo,

Here is the post you reference:

Judgmental is defined as:

judgmental, judgemental [dʒʌdʒˈmɛntəl]

Huh - I judge wrongly but a supporter of the homosexual act judges correctly?
adj
of or denoting an attitude in which judgments about other people’s conduct are made

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged 6th Edition 2003. © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

By Collins definition, people who “judge” others are being “judgmental.”
It would appear you qualify! (As do we all!)

The problem is when we “judge” wrongly.

Blessed be, Dousias