Cause of homosexuality

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buffalo said:
Which is early childhood development of overbonding with the mother and an absent father.
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I’m not denying there are environmental causation and I hate to cut and past off Wikipedia, but I will.

"Physiological

Recent studies have found notable differences between the physiology of gay people and non-gay people. There is evidence that:
Code: 
* The VIP SCN nucleus of the hypothalmus is larger in men than in women, and larger in gay men than in heterosexual men.[45]
* Gay men and straight women have, on average, equally proportioned brain hemispheres. Lesbian women and straight men have, on average, slightly larger right brain hemispheres.[46]
* The average size of the INAH-3 in the brains of gay men is approximately the same size as INAH 3 in women, which is significantly smaller, and the cells more densely packed, than in heterosexual men's brains.[47]
* The suprachiasmatic nucleus was found by Swaab and Hopffman to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men,[48] the suprachiasmatic nucleus is also known to be larger in men than in women.[49]
* The anterior commissure is larger in women than men and was reported to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men,[50] but a subsequent study found no such difference.[51]
* Gay men report, on an average, slightly longer and thicker penises than non-gay men.[52][53]
* Gay men's brains respond differently to fluoxetine, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor.[54]
* The functioning of the inner ear and the central auditory system in lesbians and bisexual women are more like the functional properties found in men than in non-gay women (the researchers argued this finding was consistent with the prenatal hormonal theory of sexual orientation).[55]
* The startle response (eyeblink following a loud sound) is similarly masculinized in lesbians and bisexual women.[56]
* One region of the brain (amygdala) is more active in gay men than non-gay men when exposed to sexually arousing material.[57]
* Gay and non-gay people emit different underarm odors.[58]
* Gay and non-gay people's brains respond differently to two human sex pheromones (AND, found in male armpit secretions, and EST, found in female urine).[59][60][61]
* Finger length ratios between the index and ring fingers may be different between non-gay and lesbian women.[55][62][63][64][65][66]
* Gay men and lesbians are significantly more likely to be left-handed or ambidextrous than non-gay men and women;[67][68][69] Simon LeVay argues that because "[h]and preference is observable before birth[70]... [t]he observation of increased non-right-handness in gay people is therefore consistent with the idea that sexual orientation is influenced by prenatal processes," perhaps heredity.[47]
* A study of 50 gay men found 23% had counterclockwise hair whirl, as opposed to 8% in the general population. This may correlate with left-handedness.[71]
* Gay men have increased ridge density in the fingerprints on their left thumbs and pinkies.[71]
* Length of limbs and hands of gay men is smaller compared to height than the general population, but only among white men.[71]
[edit] Cognitive

Recent studies suggest the presence of subtle differences in the way gay people and non-gay people process certain kinds of information. Researchers have found that:
Code: 
* Gay men[72] and lesbians are more verbally fluent than heterosexuals of the same sex[73][74][75] (but two studies did not find this result).[76][77]
* Gay men may receive higher scores than non-gay men on tests of object location memory (no difference was found between lesbians and non-gay women).[78]"
Your right! thats all epigenetic.
 
buffalo said:
Which is early childhood development of overbonding with the mother and an absent father.
Click to expand...
Way too over simplified and over generalized, even if you don’t account for physical differences.

And it would probably be better stated more along the lines of Underbonding with the father, and probably with good reason given how overly distant, uncaring and/or aggressive many fathers are, it’s no wonder there’s such a prevalence of people who would reject “masculinity” when seen that way.

Rather like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Guys who want their sons to be so masculine that they end up over-compensating and making them gay instead. That’s an interesting theory you have.
 
Lynxdk said:
Way too over simplified and over generalized, even if you don’t account for physical differences.

And it would probably be better stated more along the lines of Underbonding with the father, and probably with good reason given how overly distant, uncaring and/or aggressive many fathers are, it’s no wonder there’s such a prevalence of people who would reject “masculinity” when seen that way.

Rather like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Guys who want their sons to be so masculine that they end up over-compensating and making them gay instead. That’s an interesting theory you have.
Click to expand...
Distant fathers, being the youngest of many children (that would possibly be epigentic, [from a older father]… the list goes on
 
Hosh said:
I’m not denying there are environmental causation and I hate to cut and past off Wikipedia, but I will.

"Physiological

Recent studies have found notable differences between the physiology of gay people and non-gay people. There is evidence that:
Code: 
* The VIP SCN nucleus of the hypothalmus is larger in men than in women, and larger in gay men than in heterosexual men.[45]
* Gay men and straight women have, on average, equally proportioned brain hemispheres. Lesbian women and straight men have, on average, slightly larger right brain hemispheres.[46]
* The average size of the INAH-3 in the brains of gay men is approximately the same size as INAH 3 in women, which is significantly smaller, and the cells more densely packed, than in heterosexual men's brains.[47]
* The suprachiasmatic nucleus was found by Swaab and Hopffman to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men,[48] the suprachiasmatic nucleus is also known to be larger in men than in women.[49]
* The anterior commissure is larger in women than men and was reported to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men,[50] but a subsequent study found no such difference.[51]
* Gay men report, on an average, slightly longer and thicker penises than non-gay men.[52][53]
* Gay men's brains respond differently to fluoxetine, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor.[54]
* The functioning of the inner ear and the central auditory system in lesbians and bisexual women are more like the functional properties found in men than in non-gay women (the researchers argued this finding was consistent with the prenatal hormonal theory of sexual orientation).[55]
* The startle response (eyeblink following a loud sound) is similarly masculinized in lesbians and bisexual women.[56]
* One region of the brain (amygdala) is more active in gay men than non-gay men when exposed to sexually arousing material.[57]
* Gay and non-gay people emit different underarm odors.[58]
* Gay and non-gay people's brains respond differently to two human sex pheromones (AND, found in male armpit secretions, and EST, found in female urine).[59][60][61]
* Finger length ratios between the index and ring fingers may be different between non-gay and lesbian women.[55][62][63][64][65][66]
* Gay men and lesbians are significantly more likely to be left-handed or ambidextrous than non-gay men and women;[67][68][69] Simon LeVay argues that because "[h]and preference is observable before birth[70]... [t]he observation of increased non-right-handness in gay people is therefore consistent with the idea that sexual orientation is influenced by prenatal processes," perhaps heredity.[47]
* A study of 50 gay men found 23% had counterclockwise hair whirl, as opposed to 8% in the general population. This may correlate with left-handedness.[71]
* Gay men have increased ridge density in the fingerprints on their left thumbs and pinkies.[71]
* Length of limbs and hands of gay men is smaller compared to height than the general population, but only among white men.[71]
[edit] Cognitive

Recent studies suggest the presence of subtle differences in the way gay people and non-gay people process certain kinds of information. Researchers have found that:
Code: 
* Gay men[72] and lesbians are more verbally fluent than heterosexuals of the same sex[73][74][75] (but two studies did not find this result).[76][77]
* Gay men may receive higher scores than non-gay men on tests of object location memory (no difference was found between lesbians and non-gay women).[78]"
Your right! thats all epigenetic.
Click to expand...
Most of these findings are not very surprising.

I’m not going to do the work right now, but I wonder how the studies that made these conclusions were conducted and if they have been verified by subsequent studies.

Such findings may have some indirect relation to sexual orientation. For example, if someone has many of the things above that are more common in homosexuals, than they would probably feel a sense of being “different,” or a sense of alienation, which may affect his psychological development.

I’m not by any means an expert when it comes to human anatomy, but you need to consider that our experiences and behavior can change the brain.
 
BobObob said:
Most of these findings are not very surprising.

I’m not going to do the work right now, but I wonder how the studies that made these conclusions were conducted and if they have been verified by subsequent studies.

Such findings may have some indirect relation to sexual orientation. For example, if someone has many of the things above that are more common in homosexuals, than they would probably feel a sense of being “different,” or a sense of alienation, which may affect his psychological development.

I’m not by any means an expert when it comes to human anatomy, but you need to consider that our experiences and behavior can change the brain.
Click to expand...
I admit environmental influences could represent as much as 50% of what makes a person gay.
 
Hosh said:
I’m not denying there are environmental causation and I hate to cut and past off Wikipedia, but I will.

"Physiological

Recent studies have found notable differences between the physiology of gay people and non-gay people. There is evidence that:
Code: 
* The VIP SCN nucleus of the hypothalmus is larger in men than in women, and larger in gay men than in heterosexual men.[45]
* Gay men and straight women have, on average, equally proportioned brain hemispheres. Lesbian women and straight men have, on average, slightly larger right brain hemispheres.[46]
* The average size of the INAH-3 in the brains of gay men is approximately the same size as INAH 3 in women, which is significantly smaller, and the cells more densely packed, than in heterosexual men's brains.[47]
* The suprachiasmatic nucleus was found by Swaab and Hopffman to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men,[48] the suprachiasmatic nucleus is also known to be larger in men than in women.[49]
* The anterior commissure is larger in women than men and was reported to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men,[50] but a subsequent study found no such difference.[51]
* Gay men report, on an average, slightly longer and thicker penises than non-gay men.[52][53]
* Gay men's brains respond differently to fluoxetine, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor.[54]
* The functioning of the inner ear and the central auditory system in lesbians and bisexual women are more like the functional properties found in men than in non-gay women (the researchers argued this finding was consistent with the prenatal hormonal theory of sexual orientation).[55]
* The startle response (eyeblink following a loud sound) is similarly masculinized in lesbians and bisexual women.[56]
* One region of the brain (amygdala) is more active in gay men than non-gay men when exposed to sexually arousing material.[57]
* Gay and non-gay people emit different underarm odors.[58]
* Gay and non-gay people's brains respond differently to two human sex pheromones (AND, found in male armpit secretions, and EST, found in female urine).[59][60][61]
* Finger length ratios between the index and ring fingers may be different between non-gay and lesbian women.[55][62][63][64][65][66]
* Gay men and lesbians are significantly more likely to be left-handed or ambidextrous than non-gay men and women;[67][68][69] Simon LeVay argues that because "[h]and preference is observable before birth[70]... [t]he observation of increased non-right-handness in gay people is therefore consistent with the idea that sexual orientation is influenced by prenatal processes," perhaps heredity.[47]
* A study of 50 gay men found 23% had counterclockwise hair whirl, as opposed to 8% in the general population. This may correlate with left-handedness.[71]
* Gay men have increased ridge density in the fingerprints on their left thumbs and pinkies.[71]
* Length of limbs and hands of gay men is smaller compared to height than the general population, but only among white men.[71]
[edit] Cognitive

Recent studies suggest the presence of subtle differences in the way gay people and non-gay people process certain kinds of information. Researchers have found that:
Code: 
* Gay men[72] and lesbians are more verbally fluent than heterosexuals of the same sex[73][74][75] (but two studies did not find this result).[76][77]
* Gay men may receive higher scores than non-gay men on tests of object location memory (no difference was found between lesbians and non-gay women).[78]"
Your right! thats all epigenetic.
Click to expand...
I do not find wiki a worthy source. But I will address the brain issues.

What came first the chicken or the egg? Of course our lifestyle will change our brains. We have evidence found in avid readers vs video gamers.
 
buffalo said:
I do not find wiki a worthy source. But I will address the brain issues.

What came first the chicken or the egg? Of course our lifestyle will change our brains. We have evidence found in avid readers vs video gamers.
Click to expand...
Yes, its called Neuroplasticity.
 
buffalo said:
I do not find wiki a worthy source. But I will address the brain issues.

What came first the chicken or the egg? Of course our lifestyle will change our brains. We have evidence found in avid readers vs video gamers.
Click to expand...
Dear Buffalo,

So your logical argument is to dismiss scientific evidence because you choose to think it wrong? Are we really that closed minded?

Blessed be, Dousias
 
fix said:
Then you accept that a biological understanding of any issue is dependent on a proper understanding of health, disease, an objective moral order.
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I was saying that if you say “God did not Make people that way” you are either excluding genetics as a factor, or saying God lets the natural order of things determine our genes.
 
Hosh said:
I was saying that if you say “God did not Make people that way” you are either excluding genetics as a factor, or saying God lets the natural order of things determine our genes.
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That is a false choice. We live in a fallen world. All types of physical evils happen that are part of God’s permissive will. That is no proof these physical problems are to be seen as natural as in designed that way from the start.
 
fix said:
That is a false choice. We live in a fallen world. All types of physical evils happen that are part of God’s permissive will. That is no proof these physical problems are to be seen as natural as in designed that way from the start.
Click to expand...
Okay, so I was correct, you are saying our design, That is genetics (Nature) doesn’t play a role in homosexuality.
 
Hosh said:
Okay, so I was correct, you are saying our design, That is genetics (Nature) doesn’t play a role in homosexuality.
Click to expand...
It may, but that would be similar to the role nature plays with other physical/psychological problems. Meaning that because our genetic makeup allows expression of certain traits is no evidence such traits are healthy or ordered correctly.

The argument that because something is “genetic” axiomatically means it is healthy and good seems absurd.
 
fix said:
It may, but that would be similar to the role nature plays with other physical/psychological problems. Meaning that because our genetic makeup allows expression of certain traits is no evidence such traits are healthy or ordered correctly.

The argument that because something is “genetic” axiomatically means it is healthy and good seems absurd.
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We are and have been degenerating since the beginning.
 
fix said:
Yes, and the relativistic position says because something occurs it must be healthy.
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I have a real problem with this. Any aberration is healthy.😦 Where does one draw the line? How do we know where to draw the line?

Again, they want the license to act in disordered ways, because they do not know what true freedom is.
 
buffalo said:
I have a real problem with this. Any aberration is healthy.😦 Where does one draw the line? How do we know where to draw the line?

Again, they want the license to act in disordered ways, because they do not know what true freedom is.
Click to expand...
I have asked for basic definitions but received no reply. Is their postion that if same sex attraction has some genetic basis that proves that it is consistent with health and morally acceptable to act on?
 
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