Cause of homosexuality

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That would be infringing on others right to happiness. Guess what? when you bang your wife its not going to affect me, just like two dudes or chicks doing the nasty isn’t going to to affect me either.

And no, it wasn’t taken out of the DSM for politcal reasons. If that were so why would they be debating removing Pedophilia for the DSM-V? (it will stay).
So if I have an eating disorder, that does not effect anyone, but the APA treats it.

I really like to eat human flesh, if I eat only people that have already died, that is not hurting anyone.

Me and my friend the Goat like to get intimate, surely that doesn’t hurt anyone.

Why is the first listed as a disorder with the APA and the last 2 not allowed by society?
 
Gender Identity Disorder is listed in the DSM.
Theories suggest that childhood issues may play a role in this disorder, such as the parent-child relationship at an early age and the identification a child is able to make with the parents of the same gender.
A strong and persistent identification with the opposite gender. There is a sense of discomfort in their own gender and may feel they were ‘born the wrong sex.’ This has been confused with cross-dressing or Transvestic Fetishism, but all are distinct diagnoses.
Source

I see no reference to genetics for this disorder. In fact, this reminds me a lot of Homosexuality. Also, the harm caused to the individual by this disorder would be the same as that to a homosexual. Unless of course we started teaching people that Gender Identity is okay, then the people with would be happy :rolleyes:
 
Yes, and the relativistic position says because something occurs it must be healthy.
Did he state that? Did he infer that? That is your statement and inference.

Blessed be, Dousias
 
It may, but that would be similar to the role nature plays with other physical/psychological problems. Meaning that because our genetic makeup allows expression of certain traits is no evidence such traits are healthy or ordered correctly.

The argument that because something is “genetic” axiomatically means it is healthy and good seems absurd.
Dear Fix,

By the same token there is no evidence it is unhealthy or disordered.

Blessed be, Dousias
 
I have a real problem with this. Any aberration is healthy.😦 Where does one draw the line? How do we know where to draw the line?

Again, they want the license to act in disordered ways, because they do not know what true freedom is.
Dear Buffalo,

We know where to draw the line based on experience. We think through the process and select the correct moral choice. That is how rational people work through these issues. We could always make our choices based on other peoples words. We could say Mein Kampf is our source on how to work through the Jewish issue in the late 1930’s. Is that the “best” choice? It would seem your choice is fine for you, but the rest of the world makes these choices by thinking it through, thus making a thoughtful choice. Buffalo, it’s always easier to follow the book rather than thinking for yourself.

Blessed be, Dousias
 
I have asked for basic definitions but received no reply. Is their postion that if same sex attraction has some genetic basis that proves that it is consistent with health and morally acceptable to act on?
Dear Fix,

Yes, that is a true statement. It is still a true statement even if no genetic factors are evident.

Fix, the issue is about discrimination. Does a minority not have equal rights? Are you and Mr. Buffalo seriously stating that it’s morally acceptable to be discriminated against?

Blessed be, Dousias
 
I believe so Fix. That is why the agenda has successful changed the wording to “gay” since homosexual tied them to the deviant act. It has largely been successful.

Most people are not differentiating between SSA and the “gay” lifestyle which expects us to embrace the act.
Dear Buffalo,

You are correct. The homosexual agenda is using the crafty use of verbiage to sway otherwise “straight” males into a life of… What? Fulfillment? Love? Joy? Acceptance?
Is it your moral position that society is best served by denying everyone that? I want that for them. Is MY position right or wrong? Is your’s?

Blessed be, Dousias
 
Health, pathology, right, and wrong get to be plastic terms today among those who reject the objective moral truth. Not surprising because accepting the truth means changing how we live our lives.

The problem is those who reject the truth have no problem forcing their relativism on the rest of society.
Dear Fix,

If one reads a book and addresses all of life’s issues and decisions solely upon a single book, then current or changing situations often become problematical. Is that the issue here? Most people use multiple sources for their decision process. Do you read other books too?

Blessed be, Dousias
 
Would it be better for you if we discussed whether or not the homosexual act conforms to natural law?
Dear Buffalo,

So which acts between heterosexuals are so different from homosexuals? By what leap of faith do you see them as vastly different? If one is okay then the other is too. Period.

Blessed be, Dousias
 
Hand shakes, holding hands, hugs, and kisses on the cheek are legitimate culturally variable displays of affection between men that have nothing to do with sex. It is exactly this confusion of legitimate need with illegitimate means of satisfaction that’s at the root of homosexuality. For whatever reason, American culture has developed a kind of macho idea of masculinity where men never cry, show need, display affection, or show any kind of weakness, and their only pastime is sports. If a homosexual man in his childhood had kisses and hugs from father, was loved by father, if he were not rebuked for his need and allowed to be whoever he wanted to be as a man, not just an athlete, then the need would have been met and would never have become sexual. Homosexuality is not just an emotional deficit, it is almost always a physical deficit as well. Homosexual men in their childhood were not bounced up and down on father’s knee, weren’t tossed up in the air and caught again by father, weren’t tucked in at night with a kiss, weren’t woken up in the morning with a hug. Physical does not equate to sexual, and it is precisely this confusion that turns a legitimate need into the homosexual drive.
Dear Ben,

Hmmm, I’m not sure of that. I think there is an element of sexuality in intimate contact between males just the same as intimate contact between females. even non intimate contact could have a sexual element. Or there could be none at all.

I do know our society would benefit from being more open to touch and physical connections. But sadly, our culture thinks guys holding hands, hugging and showing emotions is somehow “wrong.” Part of the problem is people think that behavior is un-manly and, well, gay! We buy into “gay is wrong” so our culture and our people suffers
needlessly.

Blessed be, Dousias
 
The Christian path is a simple path? Have you read the bible? Have you considered how difficult it is to wrestle with sin everyday?

Maybe you are talking about Christians that believe “Man is saved by faith alone.”

Catholics do not believe this, that is a teaching of Martin Luther, he added the word “alone” to Paul’s letter to the Romans.

Where is your evidence that “many people choose to follow these paths because they are simple?” I think most Catholics will say they follow the path of Christ because it is the right path, not because it is simple (which I still argue, it is not simple). You might say they are deluding themselves, but then so are people who do not believe in God.

Inquiry and discernment are non-existent? I do not know one Catholic that has not inquired into their faith and the Church. It may be to different levels, but to say it is non-existent is false. As for discernment, what is more obscure than the concept of God? Of God taking human form and dying on a cross for us? Are you saying people do not think about this, and just accept it?

This describes exactly what I did and it led me to the Catholic Church 😃

How so? Are you saying everyone goes to heaven? That their is no hell?

Thank you for at least acknowledging number 1. Number 2 is similar to what you said above. I am not so sure that the what happens will be the same way. I can see no evidence to prove this, even if you do not believe in God? On some level, how you die might influence this. People who die in their sleep might experience something totally different from someone who dies of a heart-attack. They are both in different “states” so why would they both come to the same end (assuming no God that is)?
Hi Chessman,

I stand corrected. Some people select a religious path and follow it to the letter come hell or high water. Most people who choose the religious path do use discernment and do pick and choose what points are relevant for them. This is the “thinking” or complex path I speak of.

If we realize that all that “is” is a natural occurrence, then there can be no such thing as “supernatural” or “paranormal.” They then become fantasy or mythology. That said, much of what we experience seems to have no explanation at all. That alone is insufficient to dismiss observances we experience. But it all does have a logical and maybe magical explanation that will be revealed at some point in time. Think before the time we knew the sun burned helium in a fusion reaction. For eons man felt the heat and saw the light of our sun. Man even thought the sun to be a manifestation of God. We no longer think the sun is God because it is just another celestial process.

If one accepts we live in a logical, ordered cosmos that has plenty of stuff we have no actual clue as to how it works, then all that is will someday be understood in it’s entirety.
There is no reason to make up an explanation in the meantime that is just fantasy, is there? There is if we wish to control people… Fear them into control…

So is there a hell? A heaven? Some go and some don’t? When we die, we all will follow the very same path as everybody else. The cosmos really does work in an orderly fashion. Everything does! My belief is we pass into energy. Ever think about what the term “soul” is describing? Where does our soul exist at? My belief is we exist within our soul. Roll that thought around a bit… “We exist within our soul.” Our soul is then infinite. My belief is when we pass on, our energy, and our imprint within that energy, disperses into that infinite soul. All souls being infinite, that means we merge with all other souls. We then become “One.” This is what Jesus and the bible teaches. Many other Masters teach this too. It is the essence of the “new age” movement that many religions scoff at, the “Oneness” of Man and God.

If one sees that as truth, than why would anyone fear death? It will be the most amazing journey we will experience! It will be totally natural too. There need be no pearly gates or sulfur cesspools. No one is denied access to the experience. How can there be?

Go to go to bed, gotta work tomorrow.

Blessed be, Dousias
 
But it can be in a woman??

D.
Dear Dousias,

No, it (male member) does not belong there (the anus) either. The only reason to put it there is because of pleasure, but there are lots of medical reasons not to put it there. Also, if we allow it based on pleasure alone, then we open ourselves to a slippery slope of pleasures.

I will admit that maybe you are right. Maybe we live in a “natural” world, where everything could be eventually explained. Put we can not live in the future. Right now, there are no explanations for:
  1. The beginning of life
  2. Evolution (the kind that would explain a human evolving from an ape, or a single-celled life form evolving into something more complex).
We have theories. But these are not like the theory of gravity for example. We can observe that, we have used that theory for over 400 years. But even things taken for fact in science are later proved wrong. The discovery of string theory has proved some of Einsteins theory of relativity wrong, at the very smallest level. We can only prove what we can observe. If we can not “observe” God (this is debatable, namely miracles and Jesus) then we can not prove He exist, nor disprove it.

Right now, creationist and evolutionist are both living on faith. Although the creationist seems to have history on his side. You can say people wrote the bible and therefore it is not reliable, but for right now, it is the only theory that makes sense.
 
Dear Dousias,

I will admit that maybe you are right. Maybe we live in a “natural” world, where everything could be eventually explained. Put we can not live in the future. Right now, there are no explanations for:
  1. The beginning of life
  2. Evolution (the kind that would explain a human evolving from an ape, or a single-celled life form evolving into something more complex).
We have theories. But these are not like the theory of gravity for example. We can observe that, we have used that theory for over 400 years. But even things taken for fact in science are later proved wrong. The discovery of string theory has proved some of Einsteins theory of relativity wrong, at the very smallest level. We can only prove what we can observe. If we can not “observe” God (this is debatable, namely miracles and Jesus) then we can not prove He exist, nor disprove it.

Right now, creationist and evolutionist are both living on faith. Although the creationist seems to have history on his side. You can say people wrote the bible and therefore it is not reliable, but for right now, it is the only theory that makes sense.
That is so not true. The science behind evolution is irrefutable and voluminous. Every day new discoveries are being made in the field of biological evolution. The process is even more widespread than ever thought possible in the past. Data networks, social structures and much more effect evolutionary traits. Creation “science” has nobody investigating it’s claims. Zip!

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, the more people adding to this forum, the better.

Blessed be, Dousias
 
That is so not true. The science behind evolution is irrefutable and voluminous. Every day new discoveries are being made in the field of biological evolution. The process is even more widespread than ever thought possible in the past. Data networks, social structures and much more effect evolutionary traits. Creation “science” has nobody investigating it’s claims. Zip!

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, the more people adding to this forum, the better.

Blessed be, Dousias
Really. then please give me just one source that shows how:
  1. Life started
  2. An example of a macro-evolution, the kind that shows how an organism gains new information. Because if we all started as a simple life form (without DNA I might add) somehow this genetic information was gained.
edit: I do not deny micro-evolution by the way 🙂

Here is some light reading for those interested
discovery.org/articleFiles/PDFs/DNAPerspectives.pdf
trueorigin.org/spetner1.asp
trueorigin.org/isakrbtl.asp
 
Actually I have research the psychology behind homosexuality, but from what I have found is that it is the same as every other mental disorder…
Then you’re no doubt familiar with this:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

And other evidence of neurological causation.

And of course,
Sex Differences in Brain and Behavior: Hormones Versus Genes” by S.Bockland and E.Vilain, in Advances in Genetics Volume 59, 2007, Pages 245-266

Not forgetting this quote, from 1966:
In this country, psychology and psychoanalysis still dominate the field of sexual deviations. Many psychologists, particularly analysts, have little biological background and training. Some seem actually contemptuous of biological facts and persistently overstate psychological data, so much so that a distorted, one-sided picture of the problem under consideration results.
Psychiatrists with biological orientation strongly disagree and even decry the exclusive psychoanalytic interpretations. But their voice is heard too rarely."
 
Really. then please give me just one source that shows how:
  1. Life started
  2. An example of a macro-evolution, the kind that shows how an organism gains new information. Because if we all started as a simple life form (without DNA I might add) somehow this genetic information was gained
No 1 May I suggest en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis as a good start on the various hypotheses we have. It could be that more than one mechanism was involved. I tend towards the exogenesis hypothesis myself, as it’s the most statistically likely.

We can easily make the precursor chemicals in experiments. We can even make some likely candidate environments that mimic conditions on and off Earth. But we don’t have a way of speeding up the billion years that it might take, nor have in the labs the several thousand solar systems worth of planetary mass that it might take (under some hypotheses) to spontaneously generate life in the limited time (~1 billion years) available.

Not finding life on Europa and other life-friendly places would be most surprising, and would tell us a lot. Most of our hypotheses suggest that life is pretty much guaranteed to come into existence by common physical processes.

No 2: Speciation, Macro-Evolution, has been demonstrated in the Lab:
A major evolutionary innovation has unfurled right in front of researchers’ eyes. It’s the first time evolution has been caught in the act of making such a rare and complex new trait.
And because the species in question is a bacterium, scientists have been able to replay history to show how this evolutionary novelty grew from the accumulation of unpredictable, chance events.
Twenty years ago, evolutionary biologist Richard Lenski of Michigan State University in East Lansing, US, took a single Escherichia coli bacterium and used its descendants to found 12 laboratory populations.
The 12 have been growing ever since, gradually accumulating mutations and evolving for more than 44,000 generations, while Lenski watches what happens.
Profound change
Mostly, the patterns Lenski saw were similar in each separate population. All 12 evolved larger cells, for example, as well as faster growth rates on the glucose they were fed, and lower peak population densities.
But sometime around the 31,500th generation, something dramatic happened in just one of the populations - the bacteria suddenly acquired the ability to metabolise citrate, a second nutrient in their culture medium that E. coli normally cannot use.
Indeed, the inability to use citrate is one of the traits by which bacteriologists distinguish E. coli from other species. The citrate-using mutants increased in population size and diversity.
“It’s the most profound change we have seen during the experiment. This was clearly something quite different for them, and it’s outside what was normally considered the bounds of E. coli as a species, which makes it especially interesting,” says Lenski.
Rare mutation?
By this time, Lenski calculated, enough bacterial cells had lived and died that all simple mutations must already have occurred several times over.
That meant the “citrate-plus” trait must have been something special - either it was a single mutation of an unusually improbable sort, a rare chromosome inversion, say, or else gaining the ability to use citrate required the accumulation of several mutations in sequence.
To find out which, Lenski turned to his freezer, where he had saved samples of each population every 500 generations. These allowed him to replay history from any starting point he chose, by reviving the bacteria and letting evolution “replay” again.
Would the same population evolve Cit+ again, he wondered, or would any of the 12 be equally likely to hit the jackpot?
The replays showed that even when he looked at trillions of cells, only the original population re-evolved Cit+ - and only when he started the replay from generation 20,000 or greater. Something, he concluded, must have happened around generation 20,000 that laid the groundwork for Cit+ to later evolve.
Lenski and his colleagues are now working to identify just what that earlier change was, and how it made the Cit+ mutation possible more than 10,000 generations later.
In the meantime, the experiment stands as proof that evolution does not always lead to the best possible outcome. Instead, a chance event can sometimes open evolutionary doors for one population that remain forever closed to other populations with different histories.
Lenski’s experiment is also yet another poke in the eye for anti-evolutionists, notes Jerry Coyne, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Chicago. “The thing I like most is it says you can get these complex traits evolving by a combination of unlikely events,” he says. "That’s just what creationists say can’t happen."
Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0803151105)
Note that there’s a whole branch of Computer Science - Genetic Algorithms and Evolutionary Computation - that depends on such acquisition of information through evolution to solve real-world problems

See sigevo.org/gecco-2010/
 
Really. then please give me just one source that shows how:
  1. Life started
  2. An example of a macro-evolution, the kind that shows how an organism gains new information. Because if we all started as a simple life form (without DNA I might add) somehow this genetic information was gained.
edit: I do not deny micro-evolution by the way 🙂

Here is some light reading for those interested
discovery.org/articleFiles/PDFs/DNAPerspectives.pdf
trueorigin.org/spetner1.asp
trueorigin.org/isakrbtl.asp
Hi,

For #1…

"Scientists may have figured out the chemistry that sparked the beginning of life on Earth.

The new findings map out a series of simple, efficient chemical reactions that could have formed molecules of RNA, a close cousin of DNA, from the basic materials available more than 3.85 billion years ago, researchers report online May 13 in Nature.

“This is a very impressive piece of work — a really excellent analysis,” comments chemist James Ferris of the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, N.Y.

The new research lends support to the idea that RNA-based life-forms were the first step toward the evolution of modern life. Called the RNA world hypothesis, the idea was first proposed some 40 years ago. But until now, scientists couldn’t figure out the chemical reactions that created the earliest RNA molecules.

Today, DNA encodes the genetic blueprint for life — excluding some viruses, for those who consider viruses living — and RNA acts as an intermediary in the process, making protein from DNA. But most scientists think it’s unlikely that DNA was the basis of the origin of life, says study coauthor John Sutherland of the University of Manchester in England.

Information-bearing DNA holds the code needed to put proteins together, but at the same time, proteins catalyze the reactions that produce DNA. It’s a chicken-or-egg problem. Scientists don’t think that DNA and proteins could have come about independently — regardless of which came first — and yet still work together in this way.

Excerpt from:

sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/43723/title/How_RNA_got_started

#2…

"Evolution, the overarching concept that unifies the biological sciences, in fact embraces a plurality of theories and hypotheses. In evolutionary debates one is apt to hear evolution roughly parceled between the terms “microevolution” and “macroevolution”. Microevolution, or change beneath the species level, may be thought of as relatively small scale change in the functional and genetic constituencies of populations of organisms.
Common descent is a general descriptive theory that concerns the genetic origins of living organisms (though not the ultimate origin of life). The theory specifically postulates that all of the earth’s known biota are genealogically related, much in the same way that siblings or cousins are related to one another. Thus, macroevolutionary history and processes necessarily entail the transformation of one species into another and, consequently, the origin of higher taxa. Because it is so well supported scientifically, common descent is often called the “fact of evolution” by biologists. For these reasons, proponents of special creation are especially hostile to the macroevolutionary foundation of the biological sciences.

This article directly addresses the scientific evidence in favor of common descent and macroevolution. This article is specifically intended for those who are scientifically minded but, for one reason or another, have come to believe that macroevolutionary theory explains little, makes few or no testable predictions, is unfalsifiable, or has not been scientifically demonstrated."

Full article at:

talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

I am still at a loss why many spiritual people cling to creationism as truth. For me, the facts behind how we got here is independent of my understanding of God. An understanding of one does not deny the other. Why do religious bodies cling to a 2,000 year old myth?

Our universe is a truly amazing place! The more we learn about cosmology, the more questions and mysteries we see. The mysteries are absolutely magical! How do black holes suck massive quantities of matter through a space the size of a pinhead and where does that matter end up at? What is “dark matter” and “dark energy?” How does “entanglement theory” seemingly violate the “speed of light” limit many times over? How does the observation of quantum events by itself alter the results? How does time and gravity interfere with each other? Do multiple universes exist and if so, what might they be?

Then there are even bigger questions like: What is the energy or presence we feel and experience that we call “God?” Understanding God theory is one of life’s ongoing tasks.

I have a theory, maybe right and maybe wrong, but until new evidence appears, it fills the holes with logic for me and my cosmology.

The effect or presence of what we call “God” is the ambient energy of the universe sourced from all life animate and inanimate. We all are matter and energy. That matter and energy has our unique imprint upon it. I call this imprinted energy “soul” and it is infinite and fills infinity. All “souls” fill infinity and merge into a “oneness” yet maintain their individual imprint. Collectively this energy is what we perceive as God.

Blessed be, Dousias
 
I have a theory, maybe right and maybe wrong, but until new evidence appears, it fills the holes with logic for me and my cosmology.
I also have a theory. So why is yours better than mine? Science does not have the evidence to prove their theory (unless your links provide that 😉 )

I am interested to see this new discovery that scientists have found. I will need a day or two to read the information from you linked sources. I hope that you read the information I posted as well, I know it can be long, but we are dealing with a complex issue.
 
Dear Buffalo,

We know where to draw the line based on experience. We think through the process and select the correct moral choice. That is how rational people work through these issues. We could always make our choices based on other peoples words. We could say Mein Kampf is our source on how to work through the Jewish issue in the late 1930’s. Is that the “best” choice? It would seem your choice is fine for you, but the rest of the world makes these choices by thinking it through, thus making a thoughtful choice. Buffalo, it’s always easier to follow the book rather than thinking for yourself.

Blessed be, Dousias
I do not need to re-create the debate on every issue I come across. I can look to the wisdom in Revelation and the teachings of the church. I look to them with confidence for direction. I have not been disappointed. In the end the teachings have to make sense and they do,.

I like the book.

There is no one alive that was born in a vacuum. You are not able to sort this all out yourself in vacuum. Whether you believe it or not you are not the independent thinker you claim. Where do you get your guidance?
 
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