Causing others to sin? (downloading of music)

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Gobbledygook

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Hi,

I have a question for you guys. If someone asks for help with something that might be considered sinful, does it constitute a sin for me?

Here’s what happened: My sister got music from a friend of hers who had the CD and wasn’t sure how to get it in iTunes. Being a knowledgeable computer guy, she asked me of course. I replied, “you shouldn’t be doing that.” (I’ve done my share of downloading music illegally and I’m never doing it again.)

After bugging me more and more, finally I walked her through how to do it just to get her to stop bugging me. Even though I kept saying it was illegal and she shouldn’t, I caved in.

By caving in and showing her how to do it, does that constitute sinful behavior for me or is it only a sin for her?

My understanding is that there’s a moral obligation for me to give her a warning about it but it’s her choice in the matter so that it wouldn’t be sinful for me. I’m very disappointed in her that she needs to follow the trend in illegal filesharing but that’s another story.

Any thoughts on this?
 
Anyone?

I might be just me being scrupulous but does anyone know if this is sinful?
 
its not a sin.

God is not going to hound you on judgement day over a CD.

Its only illiegel just cause some song writer got all up tight about losing money.

Besides all the record companies get a royalty from the sale of blank CDs. so your paying for it in the long run anyway.

I however do this.

If its a good song and I like it I’ll buy it. I its ****** i delelte tell everyone and not buy it.

I’m pretty guilt free in the matter.
 
Gobbledygook said:
After bugging me more and more, finally I walked her through how to do it just to get her to stop bugging me. Even though I kept saying it was illegal and she shouldn’t, I caved in.

By caving in and showing her how to do it, does that constitute sinful behavior for me or is it only a sin for her?
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Ultimately you aided someone else in an action you knew to be sinful. You are not as guilty as you would for actually committing the action, but there is culpability there.

The fact of the question itself, as well as the words you used, indicate your conscience is already bugging you about it.
Follow it. Your conscience knows this to be wrong, and it is on target here.
 
vz71 said:
Ultimately you aided someone else in an action you knew to be sinful. You are not as guilty as you would for actually committing the action, but there is culpability there.

The fact of the question itself, as well as the words you used, indicate your conscience is already bugging you about it.
Follow it. Your conscience knows this to be wrong, and it is on target here.
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Do you know what severity of sin it would be? Also, I had Communion today. Would that have been something I shouldn’t have done because of this possible sin?
 
You did go against your conscience when you were bothered enough, but it’s hard to say that this was serious enough matter to be considered a mortal sin. Uploading music to iTunes is not always a sin since you could hypothetically have music not under copyright. So it’s not an intrinsically evil action.

It’s enough now to repent of this, make a good act of contrition, do a small act of penance (perhaps buy a cd and give as a gift to someone to repair the revenue lost on iTunes) and then not do it again. I would mention this sin in confession the next time.

God allowed this to test your conscience. It seems that you came through well, even though you slipped under pressure. You thought about it, listened to your conscience, and you’ll be stronger and better next time.
 
reggieM said:
You did go against your conscience when you were bothered enough, but it’s hard to say that this was serious enough matter to be considered a mortal sin. Uploading music to iTunes is not always a sin since you could hypothetically have music not under copyright. So it’s not an intrinsically evil action.

It’s enough now to repent of this, make a good act of contrition, do a small act of penance (perhaps buy a cd and give as a gift to someone to repair the revenue lost on iTunes) and then not do it again. I would mention this sin in confession the next time.

God allowed this to test your conscience. It seems that you came through well, even though you slipped under pressure. You thought about it, listened to your conscience, and you’ll be stronger and better next time.
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I certainly wouldn’t want to do it again. Next time my sister or anyone else asks me about something like this I’m just going to say that they’ll need to do it themselves.

I had communion today as well. I honestly wouldn’t have but to be honest, I forgot about this incident until I saw the thread on this forum again just a little while ago. Should I avoid getting Communion in the future?

I’m torn between what type of sin it was. I knew that something didn’t feel right as I was in that whole situation and it felt sort of sinful, but I was fearing mortal sin. I’m not sure how to differentiate. 😦
 
I know it’s Lent and I gave up CAF for Lent but I must chime in here. Downloading from itunes is not illegal or immoral. You are purchasing the music so there is absolutely no sin involved.
 
goofyjim said:
I know it’s Lent and I gave up CAF for Lent but I must chime in here. Downloading from itunes is not illegal or immoral. You are purchasing the music so there is absolutely no sin involved.
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That wasn’t what to problem was. I buy music from iTunes all the time. The issue was that my sister got a CD from her friend where she didn’t buy the music herself. Since I caved in finally and helped her put the music on her iTunes playlist, I’m not sure how bad a sin it was for me.

I’m not sure if it was mortal or not. But I felt horrible as I was doing it because I caved in after she bugged me about it.

And to make matters worse, I had communion today at Mass. I completely forgot about this incident but I’m not sure about the future.
 
Gobbledygook said:
That wasn’t what to problem was. I buy music from iTunes all the time. The issue was that my sister got a CD from her friend where she didn’t buy the music herself. Since I caved in finally and helped her put the music on her iTunes playlist, I’m not sure how bad a sin it was for me.

I’m not sure if it was mortal or not. But I felt horrible as I was doing it because I caved in after she bugged me about it.
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You’re being scrupulous. My mom wants a cd by Andre Rieu but doesn’t want to buy it. I fully intend to download it and burn it to cd for her. Your sister’s friend essentially borrowed a cd to put on her itunes playlist. As long as she is not making a profit by burning it to cd and selling, it is not illegal and is not a sin.
 
Gobbledygook said:
Should I avoid getting Communion in the future?
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All it takes is just going to Confession. You’re obviously sorry about what you did. Receive sacramental absolution and this whole matter will be taken up in the mercy of God – gone forever.

It can be hard to determine if it’s a mortal sin sometimes. I just take it to the confessional and confess it as if it’s serious. You can’t lose that way. Sometimes the priest says that it’s not a mortal sin, but I’d rather confess it anyway.

We’re in Lent – so maybe here’s a good chance to go to Confession more frequently than perhaps you did in the past.

I go every Saturday, like we were all encouraged to do years ago. So if I fall into a situation like this (which happens with other things) I won’t hold on to it.
 
reggieM said:
But that’s the problem, isn’t it?
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Where is the problem? I purchase it off of itunes. It is the same as buying the cd and giving it as a gift. There is nothing illegal or immoral about making backup copies for oneself. The only sin is when money is being made off of it.
 
It doesn’t matter how music comes into your possession. Whether you buy the cd, purchase the music on itunes (which is not illegal) or it is given to you as a gift, you can do whatever you want with it privately. You cannot make money off of it by making multiple copies to sell at profit but you can make backup copies for your own private collection.
 
reggieM said:
All it takes is just going to Confession. You’re obviously sorry about what you did. Receive sacramental absolution and this whole matter will be taken up in the mercy of God – gone forever.

It can be hard to determine if it’s a mortal sin sometimes. I just take it to the confessional and confess it as if it’s serious. You can’t lose that way. Sometimes the priest says that it’s not a mortal sin, but I’d rather confess it anyway.

We’re in Lent – so maybe here’s a good chance to go to Confession more frequently than perhaps you did in the past.

I go every Saturday, like we were all encouraged to do years ago. So if I fall into a situation like this (which happens with other things) I won’t hold on to it.
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You’re right. I’ll mention it the next time I go, which should be soon.
 
Record companies very well may be sleazy, greedy, profit-machines. You can choose not to purchase from them if you don’t like them, but there is no way a Catholic can justify taking their products without paying for them.

Arguments in favor of piracy usually rely on someone pretending to be Robinhood. E.g., “they are rich anyway, so it’s ok if I steal from them.” They make themselves the judge of who has too much money and deserves to have their work be taken without paying for it. They think this is moral just because music is an intangible product. But really, that situation is a lot like saying, “auto companies are rich anyway, so it won’t hurt anyone if I steal a car.”

They often admit that piracy is stealing by saying things like “I only pirate from big companies. I pay for music from small, local bands.” This is exactly the same as shoplifters that say, “I only steal from big corporations like Wal-Mart. I would never steal from a mom-and-pop shop.”

Some people will also justify their copyright infringement by saying that it doesn’t hurt anyone. They might feel differently if they were an author who can’t sell any books because their work has been pirated. Or a computer programmer that can’t sell their software because people are downloading it for free.

Also, record companies in the U.S. do NOT receive royalties on blank CDs. They get paid nothing when you pirate their work instead of buying it.
 
BrendanD said:
Record companies very well may be sleazy, greedy, profit-machines. You can choose not to purchase from them if you don’t like them, but there is no way a Catholic can justify taking their products without paying for them.

Arguments in favor of piracy usually rely on someone pretending to be Robinhood. E.g., “they are rich anyway, so it’s ok if I steal from them.” They make themselves the judge of who has too much money and deserves to have their work be taken without paying for it. They think this is moral just because music is an intangible product. But really, that situation is a lot like saying, “auto companies are rich anyway, so it won’t hurt anyone if I steal a car.”

They often admit that piracy is stealing by saying things like “I only pirate from big companies. I pay for music from small, local bands.” This is exactly the same as shoplifters that say, “I only steal from big corporations like Wal-Mart. I would never steal from a mom-and-pop shop.”

Some people will also justify their copyright infringement by saying that it doesn’t hurt anyone. They might feel differently if they were an author who can’t sell any books because their work has been pirated. Or a computer programmer that can’t sell their software because people are downloading it for free.

Also, record companies in the U.S. do NOT receive royalties on blank CDs. They get paid nothing when you pirate their work instead of buying it.
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Again, itunes is purchasing the music. If someone gives you a cd you are free to use it as though you purchased it yourself. It is not piracy to make backup copies for your own collection. Filesharing is wrong but itunes is far from filesharing. An action is only piracy if it involves selling the copies for money.
 
goofyjim said:
It doesn’t matter how music comes into your possession. Whether you buy the cd, purchase the music on itunes (which is not illegal) or it is given to you as a gift, you can do whatever you want with it privately. You cannot make money off of it by making multiple copies to sell at profit but you can make backup copies for your own private collection.
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If you bought one copy, then only one copy of the song can be in use at any one time. Yes, you can make a back-up in case the original goes bad for some reason, but you can’t use the back-up one for entertainment if your mother is also using the other one for entertainment.
 
jmcrae said:
If you bought one copy, then only one copy of the song can be in use at any one time. Yes, you can make a back-up in case the original goes bad for some reason, but you can’t use the back-up one for entertainment if your mother is also using the other one for entertainment.
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I must sign off and renew my lenten commitment but before I do, I will purchase the cd through itunes for mother, burn her a copy and still have it in my library. I see nothing wrong with it and my conscience is clear.
 
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