Caveat Emptor, Marketing Jesus

[CopticChristian]

It has been my experience, from certain Protestants, that many people say that they go to a certain church because it is close to their home.

This suggests that what that particular church teaches is less important than the convenience.

It has been a recent experience that Jesus is considered a commodity to be marketed by Protestants.

I have compared and contrasted that notion.

It seems to me that when buying an automobile, a house, health insurance or any other commodity the investigatory mode is more prone to be used for some than others…

So, how do you feel about Jesus being marketed as a commodity or do you believe that Jesus is not being marketed as a commodity and why?

 

[AbideWithMe]

Speaking for myself, I go to a church nearby for the plain old reason of believing it’s good to interact with my neighbors as they are, and to let them know me as I am. It can be kind of like being in a family, where you don’t choose the members, contrasted with being part of club or group of friends. Although there’s much good to found in being part of a group based on the choosiness of friendship, there are also lessons best learned from loving neighbors whom you don’t choose.

It has nothing to do with convenience for me. If I were Catholic, I’d go to my nearest church rather than church shop for the just-right church.

Regarding the purported marketing of Jesus----Jesus isn’t cool where I live. New age is cool, a soft sort of Buddhist practice is cool, and just being secular but kind and moral is cool. But Jesus?----- He’s about as marketable as a colonoscopy.

Real estate is expensive here, and property taxes are high. I’ve only seen one new church try to get started around here, in all my travels. The building was sold by JW’s last year to a Pentacostal group, and it was back up on the market within six months.

 

[CopticChristian]

Speaking for myself, I go to a church nearby for the plain old reason of believing it’s good to interact with my neighbors as they are, and to let them know me as I am. It can be kind of like being in a family, where you don’t choose the members, contrasted with being part of club or group of friends. Although there’s much good to found in being part of a group based on the choosiness of friendship, there are also lessons best learned from loving neighbors whom you don’t choose.

It has nothing to do with convenience for me. If I were Catholic, I’d go to my nearest church rather than church shop for the just-right church.

Regarding the purported marketing of Jesus----Jesus isn’t cool where I live. New age is cool, a soft sort of Buddhist practice is cool, and just being secular but kind and moral is cool. But Jesus?----- He’s about as marketable as a colonoscopy.

Real estate is expensive here, and property taxes are high. I’ve only seen one new church try to get started around here, in all my travels. The building was sold by JW’s last year to a Pentacostal group, and it was back up on the market within six months.

I understand your sentiment. I am always frustrated by the fact that I have no new ideas…just when I thought I had one…here is what I found. I am curious to know what others think of this…and as we go along I shall compare and contrast…

immoderate.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/christianity-and-marketing/

But, here’s the rub. Christians stink at marketing. It would be one thing if they were good; then we could begin to formulate reasons to object to the evangelical love affair with marketing techniques. They try to do marketing, but they do it poorly. American evangelicals are the essence of that thirty-something former “hipster” who is now painfully unaware of their “un-coolness.” (Pardon my lack of technical terminology for these kinds of people; I am way too far out of the loop to know the proper words.)
Dan Kennedy, a former marketing guru for Atlantic records, in recounting the days before he took that job, illustrates well the reality of American evangelical marketeers in his book

churchmarketingsucks.com/2010/05/jesus-as-a-product/

As a guy who’s spent almost 20 years in the ad business, I think this is good news. Because once we make the leap, once we get over the trivializing notion of Product Jesus, we can market him more effectively–by producing powerful, compelling branding and advertising for him and his church.

marketingjesuschrist.com/

ligonier.org/learn/articles/marketing-jesus/

crossroad.to/HisWord/verses/topics/marketing-christianity.htm

thepoefamily.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72:marketing-christianity&catid=35:dads-blog&Itemid=55

workwithdavidwood.com/christianity-and-network-marketing-is-there-a-heavenly-plan/

 

[AbideWithMe]

Hi Coptic Christian—

I’ll read the links after work. I did quickly scan the first one, and I had to laugh at the line about “uncles that still get high”.

 

[Calgar]

It has been my experience, from certain Protestants, that many people say that they go to a certain church because it is close to their home.

This suggests that what that particular church teaches is less important than the convenience.

Not really. As a southern baptist living in the southern United States it’s not hard to find an SBC church near your home.

 

[CopticChristian]

Not really. As a southern baptist living in the southern United States it’s not hard to find an SBC church near your home.

Yes, sometimes it is convenient to have it your way rather than God’s way.

 

[Calgar]

Yes, sometimes it is convenient to have it your way rather than God’s way.

So you say.

 

[CopticChristian]

So you say.

No one questions that Jesus is being marketed. Take a look at the Anglican website…

anglicancommunion.org/index.cfm

I cannot for the life of me find anything negative there. If I were buying a car, house, appliance…I would do my due dilligence and do some online shopping comparing brands and prices…there are rules and regulations about pricing, advertising and laws that discourage false advertising…

There are no laws I know of to hold Marketing of Religion to any standard…

So if I were to think about God…and say…Wow I need to look into finding a Church…I suppose if I were turned off by Protestant acquaintances and I found the Anglican website…as I searched it I would find nothing offensive or innacurate…I wonder if anyone else sees that…let me know…

Calgar…as you know these days it is pretty hard for some to get things done your way…

youtube.com/watch?v=CJMsFGH4eoQ

 

[Calgar]

Calgar…as you know these days it is pretty hard for some to get things done your way…

Being a Christian is not easy and it is not going to be “your way” if “your way” is the world’s way.

You link a lot to youtubes for me, but I don’t click links unless I know exactly what it’s too. I’m not saying you would link to innappropriate material but a quick description wouldn’t hurt.

 

[CopticChristian]

Being a Christian is not easy and it is not going to be “your way” if “your way” is the world’s way.

You link a lot to youtubes for me, but I don’t click links unless I know exactly what it’s too. I’m not saying you would link to innappropriate material but a quick description wouldn’t hurt.

Have it your way…

 

[Contarini]

It has been my experience, from certain Protestants, that many people say that they go to a certain church because it is close to their home.

This suggests that what that particular church teaches is less important than the convenience.

It has been a recent experience that Jesus is considered a commodity to be marketed by Protestants.

I have compared and contrasted that notion.

It seems to me that when buying an automobile, a house, health insurance or any other commodity the investigatory mode is more prone to be used for some than others…

So, how do you feel about Jesus being marketed as a commodity or do you believe that Jesus is not being marketed as a commodity and why?

I think you have this backward. Commodification of Jesus means that you “shop around” for the church that “meets your needs.” I rejoice to hear that you know Protestants who go to the church nearest their homes. Most Protestants of my acquaintance take pride in their “church shopping” and their willingness to drive some distance if necessary for a quality experience!

Going to the nearest true church is surely the appropriate way to express the unity of the Body of Christ. Of course, it all depends on what we think the true Church is. Many evangelical Protestants claim to believe that all believers make up the true Church, and yet will drive past many Christ-worshiping churches to find one that suits them. Similarly, many Catholics will claim that they belong to a unified, visible body that is the true Church on earth, and then boast of their unwillingness to put up with bad liturgy or what they consider “unorthodox” priests in their local parish.

Edwin

 

[CopticChristian]

I think you have this backward. Commodification of Jesus means that you “shop around” for the church that “meets your needs.” I rejoice to hear that you know Protestants who go to the church nearest their homes. Most Protestants of my acquaintance take pride in their “church shopping” and their willingness to drive some distance if necessary for a quality experience!

Going to the nearest true church is surely the appropriate way to express the unity of the Body of Christ. Of course, it all depends on what we think the true Church is. Many evangelical Protestants claim to believe that all believers make up the true Church, and yet will drive past many Christ-worshiping churches to find one that suits them. Similarly, many Catholics will claim that they belong to a unified, visible body that is the true Church on earth, and then boast of their unwillingness to put up with bad liturgy or what they consider “unorthodox” priests in their local parish.

Edwin

Edwin,

Wondering where you have been…Abide with me posted that she went to a Church out of convenience and if you did not notice in the posting…Abide was the first to respond to this…suppose you did not know this…all I was doing was marketing for posters…

 

[Contarini]

Edwin,

Wondering where you have been…Abide with me posted that she went to a Church out of convenience and if you did not notice in the posting…Abide was the first to respond to this…suppose you did not know this…all I was doing was marketing for posters…

Actually, Abide said above that it has nothing to do with convenience.

Speaking personally, of course it has something to do with convenience for me. But it has a lot more to do with theological principle. (It’s certainly convenient that there is an Episcopal church a couple of blocks from my house!) I certainly see nothing commodifying about it.

 

[CopticChristian]

Actually, Abide said above that it has nothing to do with convenience.

Speaking personally, of course it has something to do with convenience for me. But it has a lot more to do with theological principle. (It’s certainly convenient that there is an Episcopal church a couple of blocks from my house!) I certainly see nothing commodifying about it.

You are not understanding. In another thread…I will find it Abide posted that attending was out of convenience however it is not for you to know everything…I will find it for you…

Concerning your personal experience…is Church about…

Most Protestants of my acquaintance take pride in their “church shopping” and their willingness to drive some distance if necessary for a quality experience!

Catholics will claim that they belong to a unified, visible body that is the true Church on earth, and then boast of their unwillingness to put up with bad liturgy or what they consider “unorthodox” priests in their local parish.

I am not sure what to make of other Catholics…I have the ability to go to one of at least 4 Churches and the one I attend happens to be convenient…I do not have issues with bad liturgy, unorthodox priests or other issues that you speak of however…I understand that it can happen…grumbling existed among the Jews as you recall to the point of doing whatever they pleased as opposed to what they were asked to do…

It isn’t about travel, quality, disatiscation…it is about Marketing Jesus and so I will get on with this dialogue…and point out what I find along the way and hopefully learn something…

Found it…Post 161 Foxe’s book of Martyrs…

I go to the E. Free church I go to because it’s my neighborhood church. If I were Catholic, I’d go to my nearest Catholic church, even if I wasn’t totally on board with everything there. I’m not into church hopping unless the local church is patently terrible. My neighbors put up lovingly with me in my local church, and I likewise accept them. We don’t have to agree on everything to get along. In my church some people, like me, bring a bit of an “emerging church” element to the mix, while others balance that out with a more conservative perspective. It takes all types.

Now read my sentence in the posting as it relates to this above posting by Abide and my own personal experience…it has been similar for Protestants and others…thus Caveat Emptor…

It has been my experience, from certain Protestants, that many people say that they go to a certain church because it is close to their home.

So, here you find that I created this post with Abide in mind…yes I recalled this post and worded it to attract Abides attention and it did…wow busted…

 

[Contarini]

You are not understanding. In another thread…I will find it Abide posted that attending was out of convenience however it is not for you to know everything…I will find it for you…

Concerning your personal experience…is Church about…

Most Protestants of my acquaintance take pride in their “church shopping” and their willingness to drive some distance if necessary for a quality experience!

Catholics will claim that they belong to a unified, visible body that is the true Church on earth, and then boast of their unwillingness to put up with bad liturgy or what they consider “unorthodox” priests in their local parish.

I am not sure what to make of other Catholics…I have the ability to go to one of at least 4 Churches and the one I attend happens to be convenient…I do not have issues with bad liturgy, unorthodox priests or other issues that you speak of however…I understand that it can happen…grumbling existed among the Jews as you recall to the point of doing whatever they pleased as opposed to what they were asked to do…

It isn’t about travel, quality, disatiscation…it is about Marketing Jesus and so I will get on with this dialogue…and point out what I find along the way and hopefully learn something…

Found it…Post 161 Foxe’s book of Martyrs…

Now read my sentence in the posting as it relates to this above posting by Abide and my own personal experience…it has been similar for Protestants and others…thus Caveat Emptor…

So, here you find that I created this post with Abide in mind…yes I recalled this post and worded it to attract Abides attention and it did…wow busted…

Again, the word “convenience” does not occur, but perhaps I misunderstood and this was in another post you have not yet unearthed. It isn’t really worth your time anyway–“convenience” can mean a lot of things. Sure, it’s convenient in a sense to go to church near your house. It can be very inconvenient, though, to go to your local church instead of seeking out a church full of cool people who think like you.

The main point here is that I’m completely baffled by why going to one’s local parish church is an expression of commodification. I’m totally with you in opposing the commodification of religion and thinking it’s a serious problem. But I see it exemplified by the fact that most Protestants don’t go to their local church, not by the fact that some do!

Edwin

 

[Calgar]

Have it your way…

Indeed.

 

[AbideWithMe]

You are not understanding. In another thread…I will find it Abide posted that attending was out of convenience however it is not for you to know everything…I will find it for you…

Concerning your personal experience…is Church about…

Most Protestants of my acquaintance take pride in their “church shopping” and their willingness to drive some distance if necessary for a quality experience!

Catholics will claim that they belong to a unified, visible body that is the true Church on earth, and then boast of their unwillingness to put up with bad liturgy or what they consider “unorthodox” priests in their local parish.

I am not sure what to make of other Catholics…I have the ability to go to one of at least 4 Churches and the one I attend happens to be convenient…I do not have issues with bad liturgy, unorthodox priests or other issues that you speak of however…I understand that it can happen…grumbling existed among the Jews as you recall to the point of doing whatever they pleased as opposed to what they were asked to do…

It isn’t about travel, quality, disatiscation…it is about Marketing Jesus and so I will get on with this dialogue…and point out what I find along the way and hopefully learn something…

Found it…Post 161 Foxe’s book of Martyrs…

Now read my sentence in the posting as it relates to this above posting by Abide and my own personal experience…it has been similar for Protestants and others…thus Caveat Emptor…

So, here you find that I created this post with Abide in mind…yes I recalled this post and worded it to attract Abides attention and it did…wow busted…

CopticChristian—

This is straight from the horse’s mouth. I’m utterly baffled. I said the same thing twice, both on this thread and the other one. Contarini understood what I thought I was so clearly saying. You completely misunderstood me, apparently twice.

Granted, staying at my local church wasn’t an idea that I thought up on my own. As a young Christian in high school, I remember C.S. Lewis writing about this concept, and how it ultimately helped him—the idea of simply going to one’s local church instead of church shopping. As a teenager, that concept puzzled me—my local church was comprised of at least 50% “dumb Dutchmen” farming folk, and gee, I was always at the top of my class (except for math, an area of great suckitude for me). The stained glass windows were okay from an artistic viewpoint, and the architecture wasn’t too bad, but much of the rest of the artwork made me cringe. Being an artist, for me that was like sitting through a violin recital played on an out-of-tune instrument. But Lewis’ words stuck with me.

When I moved to my farm in a very rural area, some twenty years ago, I’m ashamed to admit I still kind of felt I was doing the local Dutchman a favor by gracing their church with my aesthetically and intellectually superior presence. Well, to come to my point, I’m glad I took Lewis’ words to heart. I’m honored to go to church with my boring, wonderful old “Dutchy” farmer neighbors. They’re funny, warm, and they’re better than I am. Would I have learned that in a cooler church down in the city? Maybe, but I’m glad I learned it here.

 

[CopticChristian]

CopticChristian—

This is straight from the horse’s mouth. I’m utterly baffled. I said the same thing twice, both on this thread and the other one. Contarini understood what I thought I was so clearly saying. You completely misunderstood me, apparently twice.

Granted, staying at my local church wasn’t an idea that I thought up on my own. As a young Christian in high school, I remember C.S. Lewis writing about this concept, and how it ultimately helped him—the idea of simply going to one’s local church instead of church shopping. As a teenager, that concept puzzled me—my local church was comprised of at least 50% “dumb Dutchmen” farming folk, and gee, I was always at the top of my class (except for math, an area of great suckitude for me). The stained glass windows were okay from an artistic viewpoint, and the architecture wasn’t too bad, but much of the rest of the artwork made me cringe. Being an artist, for me that was like sitting through a violin recital played on an out-of-tune instrument. But Lewis’ words stuck with me.

When I moved to my farm in a very rural area, some twenty years ago, I’m ashamed to admit I still kind of felt I was doing the local Dutchman a favor by gracing their church with my aesthetically and intellectually superior presence. Well, to come to my point, I’m glad I took Lewis’ words to heart. I’m honored to go to church with my boring, wonderful old “Dutchy” farmer neighbors. They’re funny, warm, and they’re better than I am. Would I have learned that in a cooler church down in the city? Maybe, but I’m glad I learned it here.

Thank you for providing understanding. I had no point of understanding in question, just an observation. You filled in the blanks. I understand and cannot relate to attending a Church because of whatever. I am molded by my Faith as provided by family…In the many cities that I have lived I usually look for and find a Catholic Church…

Where I live presently I really did not shop for a Church…I attended many Churches…the usual large established Catholic Church for a while, the Byzantine, Syrian, Melkite, Chaldean, and all of the Eastern Catholic Churches required a drive…I tried the Catholic Charismatic and that was not for me…and finally settled on a small Catholic Church that is growing…it continues to grow and I thought that it would be nice to grow with it…my daughter has been through Sacraments there and has been an altar server. I have been a Lecter…My daughter is evangelizing her friend…although she does not realize it…She has talked her into going to her Middle School Church School on Sunday followed by mass. I spoke to this little girls Mother and she gave permission…they have fun…they ask me questions and unlike my experience with Protestants that no no boundaries…I have respected this family and advised them of what I am doing and what it means…the little girl wants to get baptized, go to communion, and my daughter speaks to her about what she has done…

I have seen Fundamentalists, Evangelicals and the more distant “just Christians” get these kids saved without parental permission and engage them with tracts about people that get beaten because the family finds out they got saved…in my experience there are Protestants that do not respect boundaries…and if you don’t believe that then just check out what Bob Tebow is doing in another thread.

 

[CopticChristian]

Indeed.

In evaluating the marketing what I see in the Anglican/Episcopalian strategy is to market what is being done or “Charity”…I see lots of that…I really could not find anything about statements of faith, getting saved, or anything like those distant from denominational Christianinity are doing…

I am looking at Methodists sites and it appears that there is not one Methodist site and the same is true for Lutherans…Reformed is yet another issue with all the Presbyterian and disunity…it is hard to get a handle on who is saying what…so I am having trouble organizing the marketing…

 

[CopticChristian]

Again, the word “convenience” does not occur, but perhaps I misunderstood and this was in another post you have not yet unearthed. It isn’t really worth your time anyway–“convenience” can mean a lot of things. Sure, it’s convenient in a sense to go to church near your house. It can be very inconvenient, though, to go to your local church instead of seeking out a church full of cool people who think like you.

The main point here is that I’m completely baffled by why going to one’s local parish church is an expression of commodification. I’m totally with you in opposing the commodification of religion and thinking it’s a serious problem. But I see it exemplified by the fact that most Protestants don’t go to their local church, not by the fact that some do!

Edwin

No one questions that Jesus is being marketed by some Protestants. Jesus has become a commodity and if marketed then someone must be presenting the product. The presenters or salesman are in essence those in the trenches evangelizing…

I pointed to the Anglican website and what you see there is nothing but what God has people doing, ie reaching out in Charity…Anglicans as you know are divided at least into 3 segments but for the most part accept 7 Sacraments…To become an Anglican one is baptized and confirmed and then they do have the other sacraments incuding confession, Eucharist, etc…one is to attend an Anglican/Episcopalian community and then get involved in charitable work…that is what I see…however

Looking at the salesman of the marketing of the commodity of Jesus one has to ask what is it they are marketing…in other words to whom and how do they market…Another thread concerning Tim Tebow’s dad has some insight…

Re: Tim Tebow’s dad wants to convert Catholics in the Philippines?

Post #260…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=634480&page=18

One of them was
Catholic and the other, a Mormon.
They were very interested in what I
said and seemed shocked that eternal
life is a free gift rather than something
you earn. After they both accepted
Christ as Savior, they had very large
smiles!

They agreed to let us share our
message and assembled the students in the
Catholic church by their school. I shared with
the first and third year high school students
and saw most of them trust in Christ!

Over 200 children prayed to receive Jesus
as their Savior in the Catholic church!
Post #273 Kathleen Gee…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=634480&page=19

While in the mission, I would go out by myself on several occasions and meet with African natives. They opened up to me and told me how these Adventists came through trying to convert them, telling the priests had alot of money and that we worshipped statues…They were anguished hearing such things and stayed away as well, inspite of the good the priests did. I continued to visit them, and in time…I only listened and never denounced the Adventists…but simply said it wasn’t true…they came into be baptized Catholics.

To have anti-Catholicism as your main thrust in evangelizing…without even knowing the history of the people, you are nevertheless promoting division in Christian unity, not the fruits of Christ.

One of my concerns in marketing is truth in advertising and presenting the product. Here you will see, as I said, there are no rules to bar someone from presenting false advertising to accomplish the goal…

These marketers like Tebow and as spoken of by KathleenGee are doing evil to produce good…this is antithetical to the propagation of truth…in this instance it is contrary to what the Anglican/Episcopalian community promote as one who is working in harmony with the will of God…

I find this distasteful…