CBN report about Anglican breakaway group

[Alizarin]

Thanks Alizarin. But again here, it seems to me that the fact that you’re looking at it from the point of view of Why would a conservative Anglican not want to convert to Catholicism? kinda kills the potential for dialogue. (Likewise if a discussion were started from the pov of “Why would any Catholic not want to leave Catholicism?”)

Ahh, I see what you mean. Good point.

 

[Peter_J]

Ahh, I see what you mean. Good point.

Thanks.

 

[Alizarin]

Thanks.

You’re welcome. :tanning:

 

[cath4alltime]

Good article. Especially interesting was this part:
“Anglicans who become Roman Catholic generally become very conservative Roman Catholics, while Roman Catholics who become Anglican tend to become very liberal Anglicans," he said.”

That provides a clue as to why Conservative Anglicans don’t necessarily want to convert, which is that much of the Catholic Church – here in America at least – is quite liberal compared to what the conservative Anglicans are yearning for.

One of my reasons for becoming Anglican in the CEC from Catholicism was because of the liberalism in the Catholic Church but just one small reason

 

[Glad2behome]

One of my reasons for becoming Anglican in the CEC from Catholicism was because of the liberalism in the Catholic Church but just one small reason

You do know that liberalism is promoted mainly by the laity and modernists priests?

 

[Peter_J]

One of my reasons for becoming Anglican in the CEC from Catholicism was because of the liberalism in the Catholic Church but just one small reason

I don’t exactly want to say that’s surprising, but I do think it is a bit less common than what Alizarin quoted from the article: “Anglicans who become Roman Catholic generally become very conservative Roman Catholics, while Roman Catholics who become Anglican tend to become very liberal Anglicans.”

 

[Alizarin]

You do know that liberalism is promoted mainly by the laity and modernists priests?

They’re the majority in the U.S. it seems. At the very least, they’re the most vocal.:sad_yes:

 

[Alizarin]

One of my reasons for becoming Anglican in the CEC from Catholicism was because of the liberalism in the Catholic Church but just one small reason

What were your other reasons? (if you don’t mind me asking)

 

[eddie_too]

this is very interesting. it seems that evangelical episcoplianism is another splinter of the church of england.

i am always curious how non-catholic christians understand our Lord’s prayer that all be one as He and His father are one?

also, how they reconcile truth and love with the idea that the Holy Spirit desires there be conflict within the Mystical Body of Christ?

 

[Peter_J]

i am always curious how non-catholic christians understand our Lord’s prayer that all be one as He and His father are one?

You mean like how is it different from the way non-Anglican Christians understand it?

 

[Alizarin]

i am always curious how non-catholic christians understand our Lord’s prayer that all be one as He and His father are one?

United as one by belief in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. Everything else is secondary and goes beyond “Mere Christianity” as Lewis would put it.

also, how they reconcile truth and love with the idea that the Holy Spirit desires there be conflict within the Mystical Body of Christ?

When I read those passages of Paul, I see a metaphor, one employed specifically to remind the early community that everyone had a different gift (prophecy, preaching, alms) and all were as important to the church as all parts are important to the body, an eye no more or less important than say a hand. Where the “mystical” theology comes into it, I’ve always been at a loss to see.

 

[andrewstx]

They’re the majority in the U.S. it seems. At the very least, they’re the most vocal.:sad_yes:

I don’t think so. Try reading the World News section of this forum. I would estimate that at least %95 of the posters there are ultra-right, tea party Republicans.

 

[Alizarin]

I don’t think so. Try reading the World News section of this forum. I would estimate that at least %95 of the posters there are ultra-right, tea party Republicans.

Ok. Now try coming to Massachusetts. They all vote Democrat and make Hans Kung look like Scott Hahn when it comes to doctrine. I do not exaggerate. These are my people. I know them.

 

[Peter_J]

United as one by belief in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. Everything else is secondary and goes beyond “Mere Christianity” as Lewis would put it.

How about:

I believe in one God, the Father, Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

 

[Peter_J]

(Nicene Creed, translation taken from Dominus Jesus)

See also this link.

 

[GKC]

How about:

I believe in one God, the Father, Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

We word it slightly differently, in the traditional version in the 1928 BCP, and capitalize a few more words, but otherwise what I say and hear at every Mass.

GKC

 

[ltwin]

this is very interesting. it seems that evangelical episcoplianism is another splinter of the church of england.

i am always curious how non-catholic christians understand our Lord’s prayer that all be one as He and His father are one?

also, how they reconcile truth and love with the idea that the Holy Spirit desires there be conflict within the Mystical Body of Christ?

There has always been evangelical Anglicans and Episcopalians. This is nothing new. See George Reginald Balleine’s A History of the Evangelical Party in the Church of England, published in 1908.

What is new is that the liberal/modernist/progressive (whatever you want to call it) theology has become soooo radical over the years and so entrenched within the power structures of the Anglican church that evangelicals have very few options left to them. Either they stay and bear witness to the gospel to a dying church or they disentangle themselves from people who do not share their biblical convictions.

The situation is sort of different for the Anglo-Catholics. They have Rome to seek shelter in if the shenanigans of the Anglican left becomes intolerable to them. There is no Roman option for evangelicals. Either they stay put and try to insulate themselves or they shake the dust off their feet and move on, leaving the dead weight of a lifeless gospel behind them.

The irony is that in the Church of England, Anglican Church of Australia, and formerly the American Episcopal Church, the evangelical wing has been experiencing the most growth and stability. See this article from The Economist that details the growing power of the evangelical wing as the liberal wing implodes on itself and the Anglo-Catholics cross the Tiber: “The Church of England Hot and Bothered: The Rise of Evangelicalism is Shaking Up the Established Church.”

Notice the size of the Church of England’s evangelical movement stated in the article: “Peter Brierley, a collector of statistics on faith in Britain, reckons that 40% of Anglicans attend evangelical parishes these days, up from 26% in 1989.”

 

[GKC]

There has always been evangelical Anglicans and Episcopalians. This is nothing new. See George Reginald Balleine’s A History of the Evangelical Party in the Church of England, published in 1908.

What is new is that the liberal/modernist/progressive (whatever you want to call it) theology has become soooo radical over the years and so entrenched within the power structures of the Anglican church that evangelicals have very few options left to them. Either they stay and bear witness to the gospel to a dying church or they disentangle themselves from people who do not share their biblical convictions.

The situation is sort of different for the Anglo-Catholics. They have Rome to seek shelter in if the shenanigans of the Anglican left becomes intolerable to them. There is no Roman option for evangelicals. Either they stay put and try to insulate themselves or they shake the dust off their feet and move on, leaving the dead weight of a lifeless gospel behind them.

The irony is that in the Church of England, Anglican Church of Australia, and formerly the American Episcopal Church, the evangelical wing has been experiencing the most growth and stability. See this article from The Economist that details the growing power of the evangelical wing as the liberal wing implodes on itself and the Anglo-Catholics cross the Tiber: “The Church of England Hot and Bothered: The Rise of Evangelicalism is Shaking Up the Established Church.”

Notice the size of the Church of England’s evangelical movement stated in the article: “Peter Brierley, a collector of statistics on faith in Britain, reckons that 40% of Anglicans attend evangelical parishes these days, up from 26% in 1989.”

Or, over here, the Anglo-Catholics move into some portion of the Continuum. Or perhaps make a home in the ACNA.

GKC

 

[ltwin]

Or, over here, the Anglo-Catholics move into some portion of the Continuum. Or perhaps make a home in the ACNA.

GKC

Yeah. It should be pointed out that the ACNA has both evangelical (many who are somewhat charismatic) and Anglo-Catholic wings. So, its not like its just evangelicals who are “schismatics.”

From what I’ve heard, the Continuum is a “hot mess.”

 

[GKC]

Yeah. It should be pointed out that the ACNA has both evangelical (many who are somewhat charismatic) and Anglo-Catholic wings. So, its not like its just evangelicals who are “schismatics.”

From what I’ve heard, the Continuum is a “hot mess.”

Opinions vary.

And it’s certainly not as if evangelicals are the only Anglican escapees. Anglo-Catholics started the trend 35 years ago.

GKC