CCC 1498 indulgences.

[myfavoritmartin]

2 Tim 2:14 NIV

2 Tim 2:15
15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

Jude 1:3 (New International Version - UK)

3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.

 

[YinYangMom]

Sorry we got side tracked a couple pages back…I understand that its the removal of temporal punishment via a treasury of merits controlled by the “church”…

You’re almost there…

removal of temporal punishment via a treasury of merits granted by Jesus Christ and administered to us through His body on earth, the Church, to whom He left the keys to the kingdom of heaven until He returns again in glory to judge the living and the dead.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

You’re almost there…

removal of temporal punishment via a treasury of merits granted by Jesus Christ and administered to us through His body on earth, the Church.

Yep and that administered by the catholic church part is pretty vague to say the least. They as i mentioned attempt to mediate for Christ on this and many issues, and for me Christ is my living Messiah, my Mediator with the Father…My Salvation. And scripture leaves me firmly planted here… So I guess by your churches standards I’ve a plethora of temporal attachments that I can’t loose myself of because I’ve no belief in your sacrements. If as you say there really is a purgatory I’ll spend a hell of a lot of time there pardon the pun.
In God’s grace and glory and words i’d beg to differ from ya’ll though.

 

[I_Leatherman]

… So I guess by your churches standards I’ve a plethora of temporal attachments that I can’t loose myself of because I’ve no belief in your sacrements.

Is’nt it your church that says you can’t be loosed from them.
Ours says you can.

 

[flyersfan1088]

Rom. 5:1 says that we are justified by faith, not by faith and baptism. Rom. 3:23 says we are saved not by the works of the Law; that is, not by anything that we do. Since our righteous deeds are filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6), we must completely rely upon the grace of God for our salvation – which is by faith in Jesus who is God, the creator, in flesh.

So what should we do that with that pesky 25th chapter of Matthew? Pretend it’s not there?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

So what should we do that with that pesky 25th chapter of Matthew? Pretend it’s not there?

Not sure what your point is here, but I know ever born-again person I’ve met is both a good and faithful servant, you can’t be born again and not be, for Christ dwells within us. So I guess if your attempting to make this chapter a basis model for salvation it does not work.

 

[Contarini]

My point was the word “for” can be used different ways, not just one, so it is wrong to assume that it must mean “in order to get” in Acts 2:38.

That’s not good enough. You need to have a viable alternative. “For” is the best translation in this particular passage. Nothing else makes sense. They ask what to do, and he tells them. All your twisting and squirming will not make the context go away.

and that Acts 2 isn’t a model plan of salvation.

So did Peter tell them wrong? Did he leave out something important? Did Luke write it down incorrectly?

Edwin

 

[myfavoritmartin]

That’s not good enough. You need to have a viable alternative. “For” is the best translation in this particular passage. Nothing else makes sense. They ask what to do, and he tells them. All your twisting and squirming will not make the context go away.

So did Peter tell them wrong? Did he leave out something important? Did Luke write it down incorrectly?

Edwin

It is simply that repentance and forgiveness of sins are connected.
In the Greekas you know “repent” is in the plural and so is “your” of “your sins.” They are meant to be understood as being related to each other.
Like this Edwin “All of you repent, each of you get baptized, and all of you will receive forgivenness.” Repentence is a mark of salvation because it is granted by God 2 Tim. 2:25 and is given to believers only.
As I said only the regenerated, repentent person is to be baptized, as it is the manifestation of the repentance, that gift from God, that is the sign of the circumcised heart. That is why it says, repent and get baptized.

 

[flyersfan1088]

Not sure what your point is here, but I know ever born-again person I’ve met is both a good and faithful servant, you can’t be born again and not be, for Christ dwells within us. So I guess if your attempting to make this chapter a basis model for salvation it does not work.

My point is salvation comes from much more than simply believing in Christ. We are called to live our life in a certain way, which you seem to deny. I would never attempt to make one chapter the model for salvation, but I don’t exclude it either.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

My point is salvation comes from much more than simply believing in Christ. We are called to live our life in a certain way, which you seem to deny. I would never attempt to make one chapter the model for salvation, but I don’t exclude it either.

**
ME NEITHER**

Lets take a peek at some scriptures, and then try and tell me I am taking everyone of these out of context, and believe that in your heart…

Jhn 3:15 That whosoever **believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. **Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jhn 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that **cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. **
Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Jhn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: **he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:**Jhn 11:26 And **whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. **
Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that **whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. **
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. **
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. **
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Jo 5:1 **Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. **

 

[Ilroy]

**
ME NEITHER**

Lets take a peek at some scriptures, and then try and tell me I am taking everyone of these out of context, and believe that in your heart…

Nifty…how bout we look at some more scriptures that show works are necessary…we can all play this game.

Mt 7:21 - not Lord, Lord but he who does the will of father
Mt 19:16-17 - to have life, keep my commandments
Jn 14:21 - he who keeps my commandments loves me
Rom 2:2-8 - eternal life by perseverance in good works
Gal 5:4-6 - nothing counts but faith working through love
Eph 2:8-10 - we are created in Christ Jesus for good works
Phil 2:12-13 - work out salvation with fear and trembling
Jam 2:14-24 - a man is justified by works & not faith alone

Mt 7:21 - not everyone saying “Lord, Lord” will inherit
Mt 24:13 - those who persevere to the end will be saved
Rom 11:22 - remain in his kindness or you will be cut off
Phil 2:12 - work out your salvation in fear and trembling
1Cor 9:27 - drive body for fear of being disqualified
1Cor 10:11-12 - those thinking they are secure may fall
Gal 5:4 - separated from Christ, you’ve fallen from grace
2Tim 2:11-13 - must hold out to the end to reign with Christ
Hb 6:4-6 - describes sharers in Holy Spirit who then fall away
Heb 10:26-27 - if sin after receiving truth, judgment remains

Jam 2:24 - a man is justified by works and not by faith alone
Jam 2:26 - faith without works is dead
Gal 5:6 - only thing that counts is faith working in love
1 Cor 13:2 - faith without love is nothing
Jn 14:15 - if you love me, keep my commandments
Mt 19:16-17 - if you wish to enter into life, keep commandments
1Tim 5:8 he who doesn’t provide for family worse than unbeliever.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Nifty…how bout we look at some more scriptures that show works are necessary…we can all play this game.

Mt 7:21 - not Lord, Lord but he who does the will of father
Mt 19:16-17 - to have life, keep my commandments
Jn 14:21 - he who keeps my commandments loves me
Rom 2:2-8 - eternal life by perseverance in good works
Gal 5:4-6 - nothing counts but faith working through love
Eph 2:8-10 - we are created in Christ Jesus for good works
Phil 2:12-13 - work out salvation with fear and trembling
Jam 2:14-24 - a man is justified by works & not faith alone

Mt 7:21 - not everyone saying “Lord, Lord” will inherit
Mt 24:13 - those who persevere to the end will be saved
Rom 11:22 - remain in his kindness or you will be cut off
Phil 2:12 - work out your salvation in fear and trembling
1Cor 9:27 - drive body for fear of being disqualified
1Cor 10:11-12 - those thinking they are secure may fall
Gal 5:4 - separated from Christ, you’ve fallen from grace
2Tim 2:11-13 - must hold out to the end to reign with Christ
Hb 6:4-6 - describes sharers in Holy Spirit who then fall away
Heb 10:26-27 - if sin after receiving truth, judgment remains

Jam 2:24 - a man is justified by works and not by faith alone
Jam 2:26 - faith without works is dead
Gal 5:6 - only thing that counts is faith working in love
1 Cor 13:2 - faith without love is nothing
Jn 14:15 - if you love me, keep my commandments
Mt 19:16-17 - if you wish to enter into life, keep commandments
1Tim 5:8 he who doesn’t provide for family worse than unbeliever.

I suggest you take the time pray for understanding and then read each of these in context…

 

[Michael_Francis]

Drifted from its topic…and closed.