CCC 2036. Meaning?

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“2036 The authority of the Magisterium extends also to the specific precepts of the natural law, because their observance, demanded by the Creator, is necessary for salvation. In recalling the prescriptions of the natural law, the Magisterium of the Church exercises an essential part of its prophetic office of proclaiming to men what they truly are and reminding them of what they should be before God.”

Does this state that we must observe the Magisterium to be saved?

Whats the meaning behind it?

Also. I was in a debate with Matt Slick, this is where this post is originated from.
 
Defining for us the natural Law of God that is written in every man’s heart that is created.
The simply have authority in defining what that Law is.- I don’t have a problem with that.

An example is you can go to the middle of a jungle where a people have been isolated and never learned of God but Gods law is still written in their hearts - such as don’t steal , murder and so on - everyone knows in their heart when they do wrong even when the Bible has not been preached to them - breaking Gods Natural Law.
 
We observe the Magisterium, because observing them is to observe God. And Holy Mother Church should be listened to and revered for Her wisdom.

God wrote two books: Nature and Scripture. Man can know God without the Church, but after seeing Her wisdom, why would one return to the darkness?

HERE the Magisterium is saying because of Her prophetic office, Her teachings on natural law are to be taken as from God. Natural law is such…homosexuals, adulterers, etc. cannot enter the Kingdom of God…the Magisterium teaches this for our salvation, and carries the authority of Christ…

Long story short…YES. We must believe the dogma of the church in order to be saved.

Dogma is different from doctrine in that dogma is taught with the infallibity of the Magisterium…it is from the mouth/mind of God! Doctrine is beneficial to the faith, but does not carry the same moral authority. Ex) Dogma- Immaculate Conception of Mary. Doctrine-Apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima. (I for one am a believer of Fatima).
 
We do take vows when entering the church to believe all that Holy Mother teaches and that includes the teachings of the magisterium.
 
Ummm, it takes an expert to debate Matt Slick. He’s slick. You are not even Catholic and are ill prepared for someone of his education and training. That’s my :twocents:

Sorry if this seems harsh, but I’ve spent enough time at CARM to know. Also, I’ve watched Slick debate expert Catholic apologists. He knows how to twist Scripture.
 
“2036 The authority of the Magisterium extends also to the specific precepts of the natural law, because their observance, demanded by the Creator, is necessary for salvation. In recalling the prescriptions of the natural law, the Magisterium of the Church exercises an essential part of its prophetic office of proclaiming to men what they truly are and reminding them of what they should be before God.”

Does this state that we must observe the Magisterium to be saved?

Whats the meaning behind it?

Also. I was in a debate with Matt Slick, this is where this post is originated from.
Have him turn his Bible to 1 Tim 2:3-4 and cut to the chase. Either Jesus wills everyone to be saved and come to knowledge of the truth (including the natural law), and so** He gave the Catholic Church the power to accomplish that**; or else He didn’t will everyone to be saved, He allowed the Church to apostatize, and the Bible and every religion based thereon is wrong, including Matt Slick’s brand of Christianity.

There’s no middle ground.
 
YoungCatholic21 #3,
Dogma is different from doctrine in that dogma is taught with the infallibity of the Magisterium…it is from the mouth/mind of God! Doctrine is beneficial to the faith, but does not carry the same moral authority. Ex) Dogma- Immaculate Conception of Mary. Doctrine-Apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima.
In trying to bring truth to others, it is necessary to study and learn what the Church actually teaches.

The question of doctrine and dogma:
From Vatican I (Pastor Aeternus), for infallibility to be exercised the Pope must teach
(a) ex cathedra (from the Chair of Peter), that is as Shepherd and Teacher of all Christians,
(b) speaking with Peter’s apostolic authority to the whole Church,
(c) defining a doctrine of faith and morals.

So the Pope’s ‘ex cathedra’ definitions may be either of revealed dogma, to be believed with divine faith, or of other truths necessary for guarding and expounding revealed truth. Vatican Council II and the post-conciliar Magisterium have explicitly affirmed that both ecclesial and papal infallibility extend to the secondary doctrinal truths necessary for guarding and expounding revelation. Thus *Humanae Vitae *(Encyclical) against contraception, and *Ordinatio Sacerdotalis *(Apostolic Epistle) on male-only priests, contain infallible doctrinal definitions, to remove all doubt.

Vatican II (Lumen Gentium, 25) reaffirms this teaching: “The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful – who confirms his brethren in the faith (cf. Lk 22:32) – he proclaims in an absolute decision a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals.” Vatican II, reiterated the teaching of Vatican I on papal infallibility, and its documents are readily available [from the EWTN Library (http://www.ewtn.com/vlibrary/search.asp, or the Vatican Library) for anyone with the will to know what Christ’s Church is teaching, like most of the documents of Vatican I, and the papal documents before and since Vatican II

Thus, no dogma has to be affirmed, nor anyone anathematized, nor the word “define” or “definition” be used for an infallible papal teaching – only that the Pope is handing down a certain, decisive judgment that a point of doctrine on faith or morals is true and its contrary false.

Check *Ad Tuendam Fidem *by Bl John Paul II, 1998 at tinyurl.com/2qon2 for the three levels of teaching and infallibility, which are:
**1) Dogma – infallible **(Canon #750.1) to be believed with the assent of divine and Catholic faith.
**2) Doctrine – infallible **(Canon #750.2) requires the assent of ecclesial faith, to be “firmly embraced and held”.
**3) Doctrine – non-definitive **(non-infallible) and require intellectual assent (“loyal submission of the will and intellect”, Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 25), not an assent of faith.
 
Dogma is different from doctrine in that dogma is taught with the infallibity of the Magisterium…
Well, we had the promulgation of Papal infallibility, when did we get the promulgation of Magisterium infallibility.

Also, can someone here please post the Church’s definition of “Magisterium?”
 
“2036 The authority of the Magisterium extends also to the specific precepts of the natural law, because their observance, demanded by the Creator, is necessary for salvation. In recalling the prescriptions of the natural law, the Magisterium of the Church exercises an essential part of its prophetic office of proclaiming to men what they truly are and reminding them of what they should be before God.”

Does this state that we must observe the Magisterium to be saved?

Whats the meaning behind it?

Also. I was in a debate with Matt Slick, this is where this post is originated from.
A full understanding could be sought by reading from 2030 up to 2051

Otherwise it’s a bit like stripping one sentence from scripture and pondering its meaning without looking at the text before and after.
2051 The infallibility of the Magisterium of the Pastors extends to all the elements of doctrine, including moral doctrine, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, expounded, or observed.
 
In trying to bring truth to others, it is necessary to study and learn what the Church actually teaches.

The question of doctrine and dogma:
From Vatican I (Pastor Aeternus), for infallibility to be exercised the Pope must teach
(a) ex cathedra (from the Chair of Peter), that is as Shepherd and Teacher of all Christians,
(b) speaking with Peter’s apostolic authority to the whole Church,
(c) defining a doctrine of faith and morals.

So the Pope’s ‘ex cathedra’ definitions may be either of revealed dogma, to be believed with divine faith, or of other truths necessary for guarding and expounding revealed truth. Vatican Council II and the post-conciliar Magisterium have explicitly affirmed that both ecclesial and papal infallibility extend to the secondary doctrinal truths necessary for guarding and expounding revelation. Thus *Humanae Vitae *(Encyclical) against contraception, and *Ordinatio Sacerdotalis *(Apostolic Epistle) on male-only priests, contain infallible doctrinal definitions, to remove all doubt.

Vatican II (Lumen Gentium, 25) reaffirms this teaching: “The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful – who confirms his brethren in the faith (cf. Lk 22:32) – he proclaims in an absolute decision a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals.” Vatican II, reiterated the teaching of Vatican I on papal infallibility, and its documents are readily available [from the EWTN Library (http://www.ewtn.com/vlibrary/search.asp
, or the Vatican Library) for anyone with the will to know what Christ’s Church is teaching, like most of the documents of Vatican I, and the papal documents before and since Vatican II

Thus, no dogma has to be affirmed, nor anyone anathematized, nor the word “define” or “definition” be used for an infallible papal teaching – only that the Pope is handing down a certain, decisive judgment that a point of doctrine on faith or morals is true and its contrary false.

Check *Ad Tuendam Fidem *by Bl John Paul II, 1998 at tinyurl.com/2qon2 for the three levels of teaching and infallibility, which are:
**1) Dogma – infallible **(Canon #750.1) to be believed with the assent of divine and Catholic faith.
**2) Doctrine – infallible **(Canon #750.2) requires the assent of ecclesial faith, to be “firmly embraced and held”.
**3) Doctrine – non-definitive **(non-infallible) and require intellectual assent (“loyal submission of the will and intellect”, Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 25), not an assent of faith.

Thank you for clarifying this! But I only erred in thinking doctrine was fallible. And by Magisterium, I mean the Pope + Bishops.
 
Well, we had the promulgation of Papal infallibility, when did we get the promulgation of Magisterium infallibility.

Also, can someone here please post the Church’s definition of “Magisterium?”
I thought the Magisterium composed the dogma/doctrines of the faith, nicene creed holiness of saints affirmation of trinity etc…and that the Magisterium is the Pope + the bishops.
 
YoungCatholic21 #11
I thought the Magisterium composed the dogma/doctrines of the faith, nicene creed holiness of saints affirmation of trinity etc…and that the Magisterium is the Pope + the bishops.
The Magisterium is the teaching authority (not dogmas/doctrines) exercised by an Ecumenical Council approved by the Pope, and by the Pope individually.

Please refer to Fr John A Hardon’s, S.J., Catholic Dictionary at
therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl

MAGISTERIUM. The Church’s teaching authority, vested in the bishops, as successors of the Apostles, under the Roman Pontiff, as successor of St. Peter. Also vested in the Pope, as Vicar of Christ and visible head of the Catholic Church. (Etym. Latin magister, master.)
 
The Magisterium is the teaching authority (not dogmas/doctrines) exercised by an Ecumenical Council approved by the Pope, and by the Pope individually.

Please refer to Fr John A Hardon’s, S.J., Catholic Dictionary at
therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl

MAGISTERIUM. The Church’s teaching authority, vested in the bishops, as successors of the Apostles, under the Roman Pontiff, as successor of St. Peter. Also vested in the Pope, as Vicar of Christ and visible head of the Catholic Church. (Etym. Latin magister, master.)
So, “the Magesterium” is not a group of people, not an office in the Vatican, not a thing but a word used to refer to the authority to interpret Scripture and Tradition:
The Magisterium of the Church
85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48
87 Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me”,49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.
So when someone is vowing to be “loyal to the Magesterium,” it’s not really a logical construct in English. I guess you can accept the Magesterium.

Still, we seem to have trouble with this docility, as with the advent of the Internet, we find different Bishops sometimes teaching different things, or at least, different versions of things. So now we go back to “in communion with the Bishop of Rome” so really, the Bishops have to interpret whatever the Pope says correctly and apply that to the circumstances of their flock and then pass that down to priests who deliver it to us.

I had a pastor who didn’t believe in transubstantiation. I “received” this in perfect docility and totally rejected it.
 
Julia Mae #13
So now we go back to “in communion with the Bishop of Rome” so really, the Bishops have to interpret whatever the Pope says correctly and apply that to the circumstances of their flock and then pass that down to priests who deliver it to us.
That is correct, with the proviso that “whatever the pope says” does not mean infallible teaching (doctrine or dogma) unless he makes an ex cathedra definition to the whole Church as Supreme Pastor on faith and morals to remove all doubt. The same applies to an Ecumenical Council approved by the Pope.

We assent to the Church’s teaching, or like that pastor dissent, which is illicit and totally unacceptable.

The social teaching is not infallible unless it repeats an infallible pronouncement.
 
“2036 The authority of the Magisterium extends also to the specific precepts of the natural law, because their observance, demanded by the Creator, is necessary for salvation. In recalling the prescriptions of the natural law, the Magisterium of the Church exercises an essential part of its prophetic office of proclaiming to men what they truly are and reminding them of what they should be before God.”

Does this state that we must observe the Magisterium to be saved?
I read this canon to say that the precepts of the natural law must be observed for salvation.

This does not preclude observing the Magisterium.
 
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