CCC 460 Help

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dje101

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Hi all,

I was reading through the CCC and came across this paragraph.

Here is what it says:
The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”: “For this is why the word became man, and the Son of God became the son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”
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The part that I have trouble with is “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God” and “so that he, made man, might make men gods.”

Could anyone explain this to me? This sounds a little like the LDS scripture that says “what we are now, He once was and what He is now, we will become.”
 
Its called Theosis. In the Eastern faith its the main focus on how man achieves salvation. Jesus wants us to share in His divinity, but not essentially His nature. One explanation I read is that we will become as much God as Jesus have become man.

Here’s the Orthodox Wiki entry orthodoxwiki.org/Theosis

It will explain better than I can as I might mix things up.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Its called Theosis. In the Eastern faith its the main focus on how man achieves salvation. Jesus wants us to share in His divinity, but not essentially His nature. One explanation I read is that we will become as much God as Jesus have become man.

Here’s the Orthodox Wiki entry orthodoxwiki.org/Theosis

It will explain better than I can as I might mix things up.
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So then, its not saying that we will become God, but become a part of God?
 
dje101 said:
So then, its not saying that we will become God, but become a part of God?
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Simply put, we will share in God’s divinity. Remember, we are created in the image of God. We’re really not far off from Him. Its just that we won’t be equal to God in that sense. We will both have a divine nature and a human nature like Christ.
 
Recall that through the Baptism we become sons of God. We share a family resemblence, so to speak. We bear God’s spiritual DNA.

Through the Eucharist, we are incorporated into Christ’s body and thus become sons of God along with Christ.

We will not become the Second Person of the Trinity any more than our foot can become our head. Christ is the head, we are but the members. But we become sons of God through our becoming members in Christ’s body nontheless.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Recall that through the Baptism we become sons of God. We share a family resemblence, so to speak. We bear God’s spiritual DNA.

Through the Eucharist, we are incorporated into Christ’s body and thus become sons of God along with Christ.

We will not become the Second Person of the Trinity any more than our foot can become our head. Christ is the head, we are but the members. But we become sons of God through our becoming members in Christ’s body nontheless.

-Tim-
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Ok, I think I get it. Just my opinion, but maybe they could tighten up the language a bit in the CCC next time. Thanks for the answers everyone. Clears things up quite a bit. I was getting really worried about the territory the church was going in for a sec.
 
If you think about it, what the LDS believe is taken from the Catholic belief in Theosis. The only issue with them is because they are Arianists, so that kind of tainted their understanding of Theosis.
 
dje101 said:
Ok, I think I get it. Just my opinion, but maybe they could tighten up the language a bit in the CCC next time. Thanks for the answers everyone. Clears things up quite a bit. I was getting really worried about the territory the church was going in for a sec.
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But keep in mind, the “language” originated in, and continues to be part of Scripture – and we would not want to change that.

Psalm 82:6 I say, "You are gods, children of the Most High, all of you;

John 10:34-35 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken),
 
Nita said:
But keep in mind, the “language” originated in, and continues to be part of Scripture – and we would not want to change that.

Psalm 82:6 I say, "You are gods, children of the Most High, all of you;

John 10:34-35 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken),
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I agree with you. Then I think that what they should have done is provide scriptural references. All they did was reference some documents by St. Thomas Aquinas and one other guy. With some lingo like “you are gods” and “so that we might become God”, I wanna know what scripture says about that. Thank for pointing out the verses.

So maybe “tighten up” isn’t the best way to put it…simply explain a tiny bit more. For someone who isn’t a part of CAF that reads that, they might get a bit freaked out, know what I mean?
 
dje101 said:
I agree with you. Then I think that what they should have done is provide scriptural references. All they did was reference some documents by St. Thomas Aquinas and one other guy. With some lingo like “you are gods” and “so that we might become God”, I wanna know what scripture says about that. Thank for pointing out the verses.

So maybe “tighten up” isn’t the best way to put it…simply explain a tiny bit more. For someone who isn’t a part of CAF that reads that, they might get a bit freaked out, know what I mean?
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I agree it would have been nice if , in addition to identifying the author/s in the footnote, they had also included a Scripture cross reference that supported those particular quotes.
 
dje101 said:
I agree with you. Then I think that what they should have done is provide scriptural references. All they did was reference some documents by St. Thomas Aquinas and one other guy. With some lingo like “you are gods” and “so that we might become God”, I wanna know what scripture says about that. Thank for pointing out the verses.

So maybe “tighten up” isn’t the best way to put it…simply explain a tiny bit more. For someone who isn’t a part of CAF that reads that, they might get a bit freaked out, know what I mean?
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Funny you mention it, about 2 or 3 weeks ago in the letters to the editor of our local Catholic newspaper, someone wrote in asking about it because that person’s priest spoke about becoming gods and says that he/she have never heard about that his/her entire life as a Catholic. While Theosis is a part of the Western belief, there is just not that much emphasis on it as there is in the East. For the West the path to salvation is more about atonement, knowing our sins and feeling sorry for them and repenting. In the East, it is by approaching divinity that we break free from the clutches of sin. The more that we become like God, the less we are to be sinners.

I hope I nailed the explanation rightly. I must admit I’m still a bit raw on this subject.
 
dje101 said:
The part that I have trouble with is “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God” and “so that he, made man, might make men gods.”

Could anyone explain this to me? This sounds a little like the LDS scripture that says “what we are now, He once was and what He is now, we will become.”
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There is almost no similarity to the LDS belief. They believe that the God of our universe was once just a man, like us ("what we are now, He once was…).

Also, when they speak of deification they believe that they will become a god over their own universe – no longer subject to the one who is god in the universe they now live in. (“what He is now, we will become”). In Christian belief we do not “leave” our God (to become god of our own universe), but rather, become even more closely united with Him in heaven.
 
TimothyH said:
Recall that through the Baptism we become sons of God. We share a family resemblence, so to speak. We bear God’s spiritual DNA.

Through the Eucharist, we are incorporated into Christ’s body and thus become sons of God along with Christ.

We will not become the Second Person of the Trinity any more than our foot can become our head. Christ is the head, we are but the members. But we become sons of God through our becoming members in Christ’s body nontheless.

-Tim-
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Now I’m confused :confused:

The crux of what dje101 asked was “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” even though other parts of 460 were posted; but I didn’t get clarity, and I guess I’m not clear if the Eastern explanation is valid for the Latin rite? In any case, it does say ‘so that we might become God’. Could anyone dumb that down for me ? 😛
 
dje101 said:
So maybe “tighten up” isn’t the best way to put it…simply explain a tiny bit more. For someone who isn’t a part of CAF that reads that, they might get a bit freaked out, know what I mean?
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While the lay faithful may certainly read the Catechism, the lay faithful are **not **the primary audience for the Catechism. That is why the Catechism is written at such a level. It presupposes much knowledge and depth of field.

CCC12 This work is intended primarily for those responsible for catechesis: first of all the bishops, as teachers of the faith and pastors of the Church. It is offered to them as an instrument in fulfilling their responsibility of teaching the People of God. Through the bishops, it is addressed to redactors of catechisms, to priests, and to catechists. It will also be useful reading for all other Christian faithful.

In turn the bishops, such as our own US conference of bishops, produce catechisms geared to the general population of Catholics and those inquiring into the faith for use in adult catechism classes and RCIA. They are based on the Catechism but are at a level appropriate for a beginner.

usccbpublishing.org/productdetails.cfm?sku=5-450
 
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