Ccc question 841 843

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841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and** together with us they adore the one, merciful God,** mankind’s judge on the last day.”

do the muslims worship the one god as w do? thoe without full knowledge?

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”

did god give certain truths in other religions to prepare the gospel?
 
They do worship the same God, yes. But I do think that they have some grave errors in their belief system. We should be praying for them to come into the fullness of the Faith.
 
jjsmity said:
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and** together with us they adore the one, merciful God,** mankind’s judge on the last day.”

do the muslims worship the one god as w do? thoe without full knowledge?
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They profess faith in one God, the God of Abraham, just as we do. But are there differences? Of course. For one, they don’t believe God is a Trinity of persons as we do. But just because they do not believe the same things about God does not mean that they do not believe in the same God.
jjsmity said:
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”

did god give certain truths in other religions to prepare the gospel?
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Well, I guess it depends what you mean by “give”. God “gave” certain truths to other religions in the sense that He is the Author of Truth and, in fact, is Truth. But I wouldn’t say that He “gave” truths to other religions as though God decided to divinely reveal Himself to them…but only part of the way. It is simply an acknowledgement that part of the truth is found in other places and that kernel of truth can prepare a person for the fullness of truth that is found in the Gospel.
 
jjsmity said:
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and** together with us they adore the one, merciful God,** mankind’s judge on the last day.”

do the muslims worship the one god as w do? thoe without full knowledge?

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”

did god give certain truths in other religions to prepare the gospel?
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To paraphrase Fr. Barron as he said in one his Catholicism videos, there are truths in all of the world’s religions; those truths would be like rays of light, and Catholicism is where the light is coming from.

Yes, the Muslims believe in the one, true God, the God of the Jews, and the God of Christians, but they have a different understanding of Him; I apologize to any Muslims who feel I’m misrepresenting their understanding of God, but from what I can see, in Islam, God is seen as a master, rather than a father – that’s one difference.

However, there are more similarities between Christianity and Islam than one may think from a first, cursory glance. For instance, the Qur’an states that Jesus was the result of a virgin birth.
 
Thank you for responses so i can gather than Muslims worship god, but misunderstand who he is fully right?

can they be saved.
 
jjsmity said:
Thank you for responses so i can gather than Muslims worship god, but misunderstand who he is fully right?
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Right.
can they be saved.
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All can be saved. However, if a Muslim is saved, it is not – per se – because of his faith in Islam. That religion has no power to save – only Christ saves. (Of course, that doesn’t mean that Christ only saves Christians. ;))
 
Gorgias said:
Right.

All can be saved. However, if a Muslim is saved, it is not – per se – because of his faith in Islam. That religion has no power to save – only Christ saves. (Of course, that doesn’t mean that Christ only saves Christians. ;))
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Just wondering how can they worship a god they misunderstand?
 
i guess we may just have to disagree on if god can communicate himself to his own creation.
 
davidv said:
The same you can. As limited creatures none of us can truthfully say we understand God.
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Well, no one can say that they fully comprehend God – a finite being cannot fully comprehend an infinite being.

Yet, there’s more to it than that. As Catholics, we say that we have the fullness of the truth. We may be working as individuals to gain a greater and more complete understanding of that truth. On the other hand, Muslims who perceive God through the lens of Islam misunderstand His self-revelation in particular and profound ways.

To answer jjsmity’s question: they worship a God whom they think they understand. Yet, we as Christians would say that they have profound misperceptions of who God is. 🤷
 
There is no one answer to this. They worship with a belief in a God that has the natural attributes that we believe in. So they are the same that far. They believe this God did things in history we don’t believe in. So they stray from our belief there. They reject the Trinity. So no they do not believe in the same God, since we believe in the Trinity and they believe in the God of Mohammed, who does exist because God did use that man as a prophet. Can a muslim pray to the true God, although he reject the Trinity and believes in mohammed. Some say yes. There is an area where there are traditional and not so traditional opinions
 
It may be asked “who does not believe in the same God we do”
 
The failure of Mohammed’s Koran and the Muslim theologians was the rejection of Jesus of Nazareth as the Divine Son of God, and thus the Church which He founded which has all the truths that mankind needs, for as Peter Kreeft points out Mohammed and the Koran are essentially another Moses (lawgiver) and another law, so denying the mediator between God and man – Christ. The essentials missing are grace, salvation, redemption.

Denied are three main dogmas: the Trinity, the Incarnation, and the Resurrection.

Peter Kreeft accepts that “in the thirteenth century Thomas Aquinas confronted Latin Averroism, the European version of the Muslim philosopher Averroes’ way of reconciling the Koran with the philosophy of Aristotle by reducing much of the Koran to myth and giving Aristotle’s views the authority of pure reason. Averroes taught that a literal interpretation of the Koran (which the vast majority of Muslims accept) is proper for the masses, who cannot rise to the level of philosophical abstraction, but for those who can, Aristotle’s arguments must prevail over belief in divine providence, creation of the world, and individual immortality (all of which Aristotle denied).” Fundamentals Of The Faith, Ignatius, 1988, p 87-88].
 
Thinkandmull #14
where did Aristotle deny Divine Providence?
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“In Metaph. XII 9 Aristotle attempts to show that God cannot have anything other than himself as the object of His thinking, To deny God is tantamount to a denial of providence.”
See the exposure of Aristotle’s errors at:
tinyurl.com/nwoc3lr
 
What also will place the entire context in perspective is the Vatican’s work on the unbaptized children. The Council or Orange “The Council of Orange dealt with the Semi-Pelagian doctrine that the human race, though fallen and possessed of a sinful nature, is still “good” enough to be able to lay hold of the grace of God through an act of unredeemed human will.”

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/ORANGE.HTM

I think Tim did a great job above but I also think this has to be weighed in relation to above and the very reason the Creed was originally established. That was the Arian heresy in which case the Arians too believed God is God-One God but rejected the “Divinity of Jesus Christ” .

I can’t see how you cannot view 841 but from this perspective. Personally I don’t think its a matter of wrong, I do think its a matter of proper perspective.

Thanks
 
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