CCC question: Who gets into heaven and why?

[Sir_Knight]

According to the Catholic Church Catechism …

¶ 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

§ Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

¶ 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

§ Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

¶ 848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”

… non-Catholics and even non-Christians who lead a good life, can still enter into heaven. What does the church base this teaching on? Since Jesus taught that either baptism or belief in Christ (baptism by desire) was needed in order to enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Black_Knight_MI]

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.

847-848 seem self-explanatory to me. key word here is “may”.

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may

achieve eternal salvation.337That and the fact that we do not know how God will deal with others, but we know that He is both compassionate and just. We trust in that.
Blackie

 

[Sir_Knight]

I thought that made reference to those that are not part of the Catholic church but STILL believe in Jesus.

 

[Black_Knight_MI]

I thought that made reference to those that are not part of the Catholic church but STILL believe in Jesus.

But that’s not what it says is it…

 

[Sir_Knight]

Sure it does. It talks about other sheep hearing His voice. What about those who never hear His voice but still live good and moral lives? The CCC indicates that they might be saved.

 

[uvgotmaggs]

I may be wrong on this but let’s take this question point by point.

First, Jesus held the Jews to the scriptures that they recognize as authoritative. The Sadducees were held to the OT books that they recognize (Torah only) where the Pharisees were held to a different standard because they recognized the newer books of the prophets. When reading the Bible and look at the audience Jesus is talking to, you can see that he is indeed holding each group to different standards. I will see if I can find some examples of this.

Second, when we apply this concept to someone who has not heard of Jesus’; life, death, and resurrection; and we also know that there is divine revelations all around us in nature we can see that it is possible for a man living deep in the Amazon who never has contact with the outside world and no opportunity to hear about Jesus will be able to see from the his surroundings Gods hand. If this man then “seeks GOD with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in his actions to do His will” (CCC 847), when he stands before God, I believe that God will hold him accountable to what he was able to understand. This is applies the same concept of the Age of Reason.

Third, if we take these concepts and apply them to a Christian who has had the entire deposit of faith revealed to him and he only partially accepts it, then that Christian would be help accountable to what had been revealed to him.

As Catholics we believe in Gods infinite mercy and it is not our place to judge any other person. So we leave all judgments on salvation to God and God alone, hence the passage you quote from the CCC 847:

”Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.”

 

[Black_Knight_MI]

Sure it does. It talks about other sheep hearing His voice. What about those who never hear His voice but still live good and moral lives? The CCC indicates that they might be saved.

Where do you see that in this paragraph or the verse I gave you?

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

 

[petra]

According to the Catholic Church Catechism … … non-Catholics and even non-Christians who lead a good life, can still enter into heaven. What does the church base this teaching on? Since Jesus taught that either baptism or belief in Christ (baptism by desire) was needed in order to enter the kingdom of God.

No one can earn their way to heaven merely through good works. All salvation is a result of a response of faith and works to grace that is given. People are also not saved by sincerity—many are sincerely deceived. To be saved, there must be a real drawing of the Father and we must respond to actual graces that He gives us.

For some (Catholics), that grace includes the full spectrum of revelation: Sacred Tradition and Scripture and the sacraments. Others (Protestants) may have only partial access to the full spectrum of truth and may or may not have been baptized (since they think it is only symbolic). Others may not have even heard of Christ, but the Father still may draw them to seek Him and to respond in faith to the law which has been placed in every human heart (Romans 1:14). Regardless of the scenario, there are still several common denominators: 1) no one can legitimately seek God unless He draws them, 2) we are only responsible for that which we have been entrusted, and 3) we must respond in obedience to the actual graces He gives to us.

Jesus is the Word, so it is entirely consistent to say that all salvation comes through Christ, while at the same time saying that it is possible that some who have never heard His name may be saved if they respond to the Word placed in their heart.

It should also be noted that the road to salvation is narrow and few find it. The further one gets from the Church, the more difficult and risky things become. I don’t think it is presumptuous to say that it is much less likely that someone outside of Christianity may be saved. The Church merely acknowledges the possibility.

 

[Sir_Knight]

For some (Catholics), that grace includes the full spectrum of revelation: Sacred Tradition and Scripture and the sacraments. Others (Protestants) may have only partial access to the full spectrum of truth and may or may not have been baptized (since they think it is only symbolic). Others may not have even heard of Christ, but the Father still may draw them to seek Him and to respond in faith to the law which has been placed in every human heart (Romans 1:14). Regardless of the scenario, there are still several common denominators: 1) no one can legitimately seek God unless He draws them, 2) we are only responsible for that which we have been entrusted, and 3) we must respond in obedience to the actual graces He gives to us.

Jesus is the Word, so it is entirely consistent to say that all salvation comes through Christ, while at the same time saying that it is possible that some who have never heard His name may be saved if they respond to the Word placed in their heart.

Thank you. That is the type of reply that I was looking for.