CCD Homeschool

[Hoosier_Daddy]

You would be free to “just not do it” but the pastors here defer to the DRE because they simply don’t know everyone, and don’t want to play favorites. Simply knowing Father doesn’t get you a pass from HIS obligation to educate the kids. I have to have records so that when these people move away, the Pastor can write a letter to his brother Pastor verifying that the children have been educated, what curriculum they used, and that he feels that they are adequately prepared for whatever they are asking for, whether it be permission to enter Confirmation prep, or enrollment in special programs.
The bucks stops with the DRE in many places.

I am Lay Ecclesial Minister as well as the DRE and Youth Minister. I am the one who is held accountable. Most people happily comply. They like that someone cares enough to ensure that the children, whether not previously catechized, or special needs, or without a lot of language skills cares. I also have to vet and keep up with all the RCIA people. Who needs what Sacraments, who needs sponsors, and who needs annulments. The church keeps meticulous records. At least ours does. You call us? We know you, and we have plenty of data on you for any priest who comes knockin’.
You’re not relinquishing anything. That’s just an over-reaction. You “relinquish control” to lots of entities who issue certifications. It’s compliance, Not control.

I am qualified to check. Really.

You know I think you are qualified for about anything!
But I really lament the loss of the purpose of a priest and a shepherd. Some places still have it. But many have taken on a business model where the priest is the administrator and delegator. This is necessary in some large parishes. Perhaps in the “old” days the good sisters took care of the issues and priests were able to be a “father” to their parish as they watched them grow and live lives. Now, we move around priests at a rapid rate…

None of that changes (or should change) the cannon legality and rights of parents and parishioners. The “DRE” is not an office of the Church. It is not even found in cannon law. So there really is no “buck stopping with the DRE” Nor is there deferment from Father, that would imply a power that is frankly just manufactured out of thin air. For the vast majority of history and in the vast majority of parishes, there is no “DRE” or the DRE is indeed Father himself.

I am not picking on you personally and I hope you can step back and see the point I am making here but it would be hard for me to do if my job were being attacked

I would put my kids happily in your program from what I know of you. But if I chose not to, if you were not the wonderful DRE I know you are, I would take care of it myself. And I absolutely would not accept the DRE as any sort of authority on sacrament administration. And I would be backed up by Church law.

Bottom line is this. I am wiling as a parent to work with a DRE for the education of my children in the faith. But the DRE answers to me. Not I to the DRE. Ever. Period.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

You would be free to “just not do it” but the pastors here defer to the DRE because they simply don’t know everyone, and don’t want to play favorites. Simply knowing Father doesn’t get you a pass from HIS obligation to educate the kids. I have to have records so that when these people move away, the Pastor can write a letter to his brother Pastor verifying that the children have been educated, what curriculum they used, and that he feels that they are adequately prepared for whatever they are asking for, whether it be permission to enter Confirmation prep, or enrollment in special …

I am qualified to check. Really.

You know I think you are qualified for about anything!
But I really lament the loss of the purpose of a priest and a shepherd. Some places still have it. But many have taken on a business model where the priest is the administrator and delegator. This is necessary in some large parishes. Perhaps in the “old” days the good sisters took care of the issues and priests were able to be a “father” to their parish as they watched them grow and live lives. Now, we move around priests at a rapid rate…

None of that changes (or should change) the cannon legality and rights of parents and parishioners. The “DRE” is not an office of the Church. It is not even found in cannon law. So there really is no “buck stopping with the DRE” Nor is there deferment from Father, that would imply a power that is frankly just manufactured out of thin air. For the vast majority of history and in the vast majority of parishes, there is no “DRE” or the DRE is indeed Father himself.

I am not picking on you personally and I hope you can step back and see the point I am making here but it would be hard for me to do if my job were being attacked

I would put my kids happily in your program from what I know of you. But if I chose not to, if you were not the wonderful DRE I know you are, I would take care of it myself. And I absolutely would not accept the DRE as any sort of authority on sacrament administration. And I would be backed up by Church law.

Bottom line is this. I am wiling as a parent to work with a DRE for the education of my children in the faith. But the DRE answers to me. Not I to the DRE. Ever. Period.
I am the primary educator in my children faith. And I am the head of my domestic Church. That trumps a DRE. And it always should. The lay ministries are there to support the parish not to enforce and police the parish.

To be honest. Even our current DRE (who is my children’s Godparent) is someone who I would question what is being taught.

Because we homeschool and have in depth curriculum my gradeschool kids have more sacrament prep in a week than in a year of RE classes. And so attending them can be a waste of time and in some cases when they get older it could be harmful for their faith.
There is only so much “catholic means universal” (it doesnt) And “God is love” answers a youth group can give…

We currently have begun a program for families who do not wish to separate out children for religious ed. It consists of one DRE led session a month, and then the parents teach the children for the rest of the month. It is an obvious compromise with parents who do not wish thier children to attend the RE classes. So, to support our homeschool friends and also our RE friends we are going to do both programs this year. So, in addition to the 1500 dollars I spent on curriculum, there will be 2 programs we take from the religious ed ministry. Now, I will be presumptuous and say that my education my children will far surpass that which the parish offered. Our dinner conversation at our house consists of my 5th grader and my 3rd grader discussing if a new annulment process leads to de facto Catholic “divorce”

Answer to a DRE for permission for my child to have a sacrament? Nope never. Not even if it is you. Does that mean that I don’t think our parish DRE is worth a scrap of paper. NO way! It is a valuable ministry that is needed in more places. But it needs to be understood and defined. And thankfully we have a Church and laws for that!

Myself and Father are the “decision” makers here. Even if Father delegates that prep responsibility to someone else, legally within the Church the buck does not stop with a lay DRE. That is a gross distortion of what the purpose of a DRE is.

So, I will tell you the same thing I tell our dear friend who is also our parish DRE. You can stamp your form for permission for my kid to have a sacrament, but you really have no choice anyway.

I am curious. If you deemed someone unworthy of a sacrament, and they appealed it. How would that play out in the legal system of the Church? I’ll tell you how. FATHER, not the DRE would be called upon to defend his (your) decision. And then he would have to become educated and meet and talk with the parties involved. Including the little one being instructed at home…

It isn’t about knowing “father” it is about the offices and powers of the Church and the rights and the responsibilities of parents.

A sad problem with the priest shortage today is the confusion of the laity on authority in the Church.

 

[His_helpmeet]

Personally, I use the “Faith and Life” series for catechism for DSD. This series goes up to Grade 8. For high school, I will be using “A Course in Religion for High School Youth”, by Fr. John Laux. This is a series of four books (Chief Truths of the Faith, The Mass and the Sacraments, Catholic Morality, and Catholic Apologetics) and two companion books (Introduction to the Bible, and Church History).

 

[Regina7]

You know I think you are qualified for about anything!
But I really lament the loss of the purpose of a priest and a shepherd. Some places still have it. But many have taken on a business model where the priest is the administrator and delegator. This is necessary in some large parishes. Perhaps in the “old” days the good sisters took care of the issues and priests were able to be a “father” to their parish as they watched them grow and live lives. Now, we move around priests at a rapid rate…

None of that changes (or should change) the cannon legality and rights of parents and parishioners. The “DRE” is not an office of the Church. It is not even found in cannon law. So there really is no “buck stopping with the DRE” Nor is there deferment from Father, that would imply a power that is frankly just manufactured out of thin air. For the vast majority of history and in the vast majority of parishes, there is no “DRE” or the DRE is indeed Father himself.

I am not picking on you personally and I hope you can step back and see the point I am making here but it would be hard for me to do if my job were being attacked

I would put my kids happily in your program from what I know of you. But if I chose not to, if you were not the wonderful DRE I know you are, I would take care of it myself. And I absolutely would not accept the DRE as any sort of authority on sacrament administration. And I would be backed up by Church law.

Bottom line is this. I am wiling as a parent to work with a DRE for the education of my children in the faith. But the DRE answers to me. Not I to the DRE. Ever. Period.
I am the primary educator in my children faith. And I am the head of my domestic Church. That trumps a DRE. And it always should. The lay ministries are there to support the parish not to enforce and police the parish.

To be honest. Even our current DRE (who is my children’s Godparent) is someone who I would question what is being taught.

Because we homeschool and have in depth curriculum my gradeschool kids have more sacrament prep in a week than in a year of RE classes. And so attending them can be a waste of time and in some cases when they get older it could be harmful for their faith.
There is only so much “catholic means universal” (it doesnt) And “God is love” answers a youth group can give…

We currently have begun a program for families who do not wish to separate out children for religious ed. It consists of one DRE led session a month, and then the parents teach the children for the rest of the month. It is an obvious compromise with parents who do not wish thier children to attend the RE classes. So, to support our homeschool friends and also our RE friends we are going to do both programs this year. So, in addition to the 1500 dollars I spent on curriculum, there will be 2 programs we take from the religious ed ministry. Now, I will be presumptuous and say that my education my children will far surpass that which the parish offered. Our dinner conversation at our house consists of my 5th grader and my 3rd grader discussing if a new annulment process leads to de facto Catholic “divorce”

Answer to a DRE for permission for my child to have a sacrament? Nope never. Not even if it is you. Does that mean that I don’t think our parish DRE is worth a scrap of paper. NO way! It is a valuable ministry that is needed in more places. But it needs to be understood and defined. And thankfully we have a Church and laws for that!

Myself and Father are the “decision” makers here. Even if Father delegates that prep responsibility to someone else, legally within the Church the buck does not stop with a lay DRE. That is a gross distortion of what the purpose of a DRE is.

So, I will tell you the same thing I tell our dear friend who is also our parish DRE. You can stamp your form for permission for my kid to have a sacrament, but you really have no choice anyway.

I am curious. If you deemed someone unworthy of a sacrament, and they appealed it. How would that play out in the legal system of the Church? I’ll tell you how. FATHER, not the DRE would be called upon to defend his (your) decision. And then he would have to become educated and meet and talk with the parties involved. Including the little one being instructed at home…

It isn’t about knowing “father” it is about the offices and powers of the Church and the rights and the responsibilities of parents.

A sad problem with the priest shortage today is the confusion of the laity on authority in the Church.

Great post!

 

[pianistclare]

You know I think you are qualified for about anything!
But I really lament the loss of the purpose of a priest and a shepherd. Some places still have it. But many have taken on a business model where the priest is the administrator and delegator. This is necessary in some large parishes. Perhaps in the “old” days the good sisters took care of the issues and priests were able to be a “father” to their parish as they watched them grow and live lives. Now, we move around priests at a rapid rate…

None of that changes (or should change) the cannon legality and rights of parents and parishioners. The “DRE” is not an office of the Church. It is not even found in cannon law. So there really is no “buck stopping with the DRE” Nor is there deferment from Father, that would imply a power that is frankly just manufactured out of thin air. For the vast majority of history and in the vast majority of parishes, there is no “DRE” or the DRE is indeed Father himself.

I am not picking on you personally and I hope you can step back and see the point I am making here but it would be hard for me to do if my job were being attacked

I would put my kids happily in your program from what I know of you. But if I chose not to, if you were not the wonderful DRE I know you are, I would take care of it myself. And I absolutely would not accept the DRE as any sort of authority on sacrament administration. And I would be backed up by Church law.

Bottom line is this. I am wiling as a parent to work with a DRE for the education of my children in the faith. But the DRE answers to me. Not I to the DRE. Ever. Period.

The pont us… Father’s wishes are very clear. It’s easier for me to give people the bad news occasionally. One of the primary functions of the parish after liturgy is education. It behooves a parish to obtain the most qualified person to run a program. There is no way a priest can run 30 various classes and still me the spiritual needs of parishioner s who are ill, dying, in crisis, stewardship, ministries, physical plant and take time for his own prayer life. Not to mention the endless meeting s with the Archbishop and CFO. He relies on his staff to handle alot. That’s just the way it is.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

The pont us… Father’s wishes are very clear. It’s easier for me to give people the bad news occasionally. One of the primary functions of the parish after liturgy is education. It behooves a parish to obtain the most qualified person to run a program. There is no way a priest can run 30 various classes and still me the spiritual needs of parishioner s who are ill, dying, in crisis, stewardship, ministries, physical plant and take time for his own prayer life. Not to mention the endless meeting s with the Archbishop and CFO. He relies on his staff to handle alot. That’s just the way it is.

Of course that is the way it is. And of course the staff should handle a lot. But the staff cannot be the arbiter of who receives the sacraments.

For pretend sake. Lets say that I chose to homeschool my kids for Religious Ed in your parish. And you said to me, “I would like to meet with you to make sure I approve that the Child has been properly instructed.” If anyone other than Father said that to me I would (after I cleaned up my mess from spouting milk out my nose) tell them absolutely no way. It isn’t so much the actual process that I would balk at, but rather the complete absence of authority. Out of our 5 kids, our first we were unaware of rights. We were told to attend classes for baptism which were a waste of time, and I mean a COMPLETE waste of time as I am qualified to teach courses on Catholic Theology. These classes were only held in English every 6 months. We had literally just missed the previous one so our daughter was baptized at 6 months old just so the form for religious ed of the parents could be filled out. It was from this we learned that these “rules” that the Religious Ed people spout have almost zero authority. We have never taken another course though when requesting baptism we have been told we have to. Then, as a youth group director I had the other side of the table to be on. Parents who would hold their children out of a “mandatory” retreat or confirmation class who would then tell me where I could stick my “mandatory” rules… And they always won. Always. Especially the deacon’s kids who’s deacon father was a cannon lawyer.

The fact of the matter is this., If you said to me. hey HD, why don’t you bring your kids down for religious ed this year, it is going to be a great resource for you to use. I would jump at the idea. If you said, hey HD can I meet with you so we are on the same page for liturgical issues for confirmation or first communion I would also run right on down to your office. But if you said to me “I have to make sure your child passes my criteria for the sacrament” Not only would I laugh and deny you that, but I would have a few choice words for you as well. (remember in this scenario I don’t know you from Adam like I do on these boards.) See, the problem is not with the DRE having a system and criteria, it is with the idea that it is backed up by some kind of ordained authority to administer sacraments. That is where the disconnect lies.

I will state this again because it is a main point that may have been buried in my last post.

I am not accountable to the DRE for my child’s religious education. The DRE is indeed accountable to me.

That is the basic idea of ministering, of service. Your master is not the criteria you hold the children accountable for. It is the child itself. And by extension, the parent who has all and complete authority in the situation.

Being someone who has been heavily involved in youth ministry and RE I never thought I would type these things. But having seen time and time again DRE’s misusing some ghost authority has made me really see the parental side of it. It is noble that you view your job as something you are indeed taken to task for. That you are made to answer for the religious ed of children. Because in a way, you are. But not in the way of deciding who and who has not revived the correct instruction for a sacrament. It is quite possible that it may seem that way or that a priest has even laid out the job requirements that way, but it is not backed up by the Church.

Would I put my children in your program. Perhaps. But if I did not would I meet with you to go over material that you think a child should have covered? Probably, if asked respectfully. Would I allow you to put my child in an inquisition on their faith? Nope. Never. And I would win that at a certain level of the Church.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Now I am going to type something that on the surface may seem selfish.

Many times what I hear from youth ministers or DREs about homeschool types who do not want to attend classes is the idea that having devout, knowledgeable teens or young people in the group helps the group as a whole. It enhances the program and the kids can do much good to help others by merely attending.

I cringe at that. My children are my responsibility to get to heaven. And I don’t like the idea that I need to sacrifice or endanger their butterfly wings of faith to help Suzie Q down the street who struggles with a drug addiction and attended her bio mom’s lesbian wedding last week. Now I freely admit that it is somewhat hypocritical and that indeed part of my children’s faith formation should be to learn to evangelize and serve others. But I just can’t take the Ferrari of my children’s faith and throw it into the middle of SOME (not all) youth groups. It is just too high of a risk sometimes.

 

[Allegra]

Of course that is the way it is. And of course the staff should handle a lot. But the staff cannot be the arbiter of who receives the sacraments.

For pretend sake. Lets say that I chose to homeschool my kids for Religious Ed in your parish. And you said to me, “I would like to meet with you to make sure I approve that the Child has been properly instructed.” If anyone other than Father said that to me I would (after I cleaned up my mess from spouting milk out my nose) tell them absolutely no way. It isn’t so much the actual process that I would balk at, but rather the complete absence of authority. Out of our 5 kids, our first we were unaware of rights. We were told to attend classes for baptism which were a waste of time, and I mean a COMPLETE waste of time as I am qualified to teach courses on Catholic Theology. These classes were only held in English every 6 months. We had literally just missed the previous one so our daughter was baptized at 6 months old just so the form for religious ed of the parents could be filled out. It was from this we learned that these “rules” that the Religious Ed people spout have almost zero authority. We have never taken another course though when requesting baptism we have been told we have to. Then, as a youth group director I had the other side of the table to be on. Parents who would hold their children out of a “mandatory” retreat or confirmation class who would then tell me where I could stick my “mandatory” rules… And they always won. Always. Especially the deacon’s kids who’s deacon father was a cannon lawyer.

The fact of the matter is this., If you said to me. hey HD, why don’t you bring your kids down for religious ed this year, it is going to be a great resource for you to use. I would jump at the idea. If you said, hey HD can I meet with you so we are on the same page for liturgical issues for confirmation or first communion I would also run right on down to your office. But if you said to me “I have to make sure your child passes my criteria for the sacrament” Not only would I laugh and deny you that, but I would have a few choice words for you as well. (remember in this scenario I don’t know you from Adam like I do on these boards.) See, the problem is not with the DRE having a system and criteria, it is with the idea that it is backed up by some kind of ordained authority to administer sacraments. That is where the disconnect lies.

I will state this again because it is a main point that may have been buried in my last post.

I am not accountable to the DRE for my child’s religious education. The DRE is indeed accountable to me.

That is the basic idea of ministering, of service. Your master is not the criteria you hold the children accountable for. It is the child itself. And by extension, the parent who has all and complete authority in the situation.

Being someone who has been heavily involved in youth ministry and RE I never thought I would type these things. But having seen time and time again DRE’s misusing some ghost authority has made me really see the parental side of it. It is noble that you view your job as something you are indeed taken to task for. That you are made to answer for the religious ed of children. Because in a way, you are. But not in the way of deciding who and who has not revived the correct instruction for a sacrament. It is quite possible that it may seem that way or that a priest has even laid out the job requirements that way, but it is not backed up by the Church.

Would I put my children in your program. Perhaps. But if I did not would I meet with you to go over material that you think a child should have covered? Probably, if asked respectfully. Would I allow you to put my child in an inquisition on their faith? Nope. Never. And I would win that at a certain level of the Church.

I agree completely. It’s not the place of a DRE to deny a child a sacrament. If the DRE suspects a child is not ready or hasn’t been given proper instruction, the pastor should be notified and HE should be the one to talk to the child and make certain he or she is properly educated and disposed.

 

[pianistclare]

Of course that is the way it is. And of course the staff should handle a lot. But the staff cannot be the arbiter of who receives the sacraments.

For pretend sake. Lets say that I chose to homeschool my kids for Religious Ed in your parish. And you said to me, “I would like to meet with you to make sure I approve that the Child has been properly instructed.” If anyone other than Father said that to me I would (after I cleaned up my mess from spouting milk out my nose) tell them absolutely no way. It isn’t so much the actual process that I would balk at, but rather the complete absence of authority. Out of our 5 kids, our first we were unaware of rights. We were told to attend classes for baptism which were a waste of time, and I mean a COMPLETE waste of time as I am qualified to teach courses on Catholic Theology. These classes were only held in English every 6 months. We had literally just missed the previous one so our daughter was baptized at 6 months old just so the form for religious ed of the parents could be filled out. It was from this we learned that these “rules” that the Religious Ed people spout have almost zero authority. We have never taken another course though when requesting baptism we have been told we have to. Then, as a youth group director I had the other side of the table to be on. Parents who would hold their children out of a “mandatory” retreat or confirmation class who would then tell me where I could stick my “mandatory” rules… And they always won. Always. Especially the deacon’s kids who’s deacon father was a cannon lawyer.

The fact of the matter is this., If you said to me. hey HD, why don’t you bring your kids down for religious ed this year, it is going to be a great resource for you to use. I would jump at the idea. If you said, hey HD can I meet with you so we are on the same page for liturgical issues for confirmation or first communion I would also run right on down to your office. But if you said to me “I have to make sure your child passes my criteria for the sacrament” Not only would I laugh and deny you that, but I would have a few choice words for you as well. (remember in this scenario I don’t know you from Adam like I do on these boards.) See, the problem is not with the DRE having a system and criteria, it is with the idea that it is backed up by some kind of ordained authority to administer sacraments. That is where the disconnect lies.

I will state this again because it is a main point that may have been buried in my last post.

I am not accountable to the DRE for my child’s religious education. The DRE is indeed accountable to me.

That is the basic idea of ministering, of service. Your master is not the criteria you hold the children accountable for. It is the child itself. And by extension, the parent who has all and complete authority in the situation.

Being someone who has been heavily involved in youth ministry and RE I never thought I would type these things. But having seen time and time again DRE’s misusing some ghost authority has made me really see the parental side of it. It is noble that you view your job as something you are indeed taken to task for. That you are made to answer for the religious ed of children. Because in a way, you are. But not in the way of deciding who and who has not revived the correct instruction for a sacrament. It is quite possible that it may seem that way or that a priest has even laid out the job requirements that way, but it is not backed up by the Church.

Would I put my children in your program. Perhaps. But if I did not would I meet with you to go over material that you think a child should have covered? Probably, if asked respectfully. Would I allow you to put my child in an inquisition on their faith? Nope. Never. And I would win that at a certain level of the Church.

There is no ghost authority. Father and the Archdiocese have policies. Never once have we turned away any homeschooling people. We have their coop here on weds. You’re putting problems where there is none. Homeschooling parents love to brag and show off their kids knowledge. They never quibble. I’d father says…they comply. They trust me too and I know their kids well. The people who DO run away are those that are trying to pull a fast one. Show up for the first communion. Mass and never return. Yes, that does happen
not everyone is keenly interested in faith formation. Believe it or not. Why would anyone question the priest? Makes no sense. It’s about education.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

There is no ghost authority. Father and the Archdiocese have policies. Never once have we turned away any homeschooling people. We have their coop here on weds. You’re putting problems where there is none. Homeschooling parents love to brag and show off their kids knowledge. They never quibble. I’d father says…they comply. They trust me too and I know their kids well. The people who DO run away are those that are trying to pull a fast one. Show up for the first communion. Mass and never return. Yes, that does happen
not everyone is keenly interested in faith formation. Believe it or not. Why would anyone question the priest? Makes no sense. It’s about education.

So if I attended your parish and my child was ready for first communion. But I refused to go through your program or submit to your tests, what would happen?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

There is no ghost authority. Father and the Archdiocese have policies.

What are these policies exactly? Can I read them?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

pianistclaire

Here is an article that might interest you. It both satisfies your view of delegation and mine of the authority of the issue in question.

canonlawmadeeasy.com/2014/06/05/who-is-responsible-for-childrens-religious-education/

 

[pianistclare]

So if I attended your parish and my child was ready for first communion. But I refused to go through your program or submit to your tests, what would happen?

First THERE ARE NO TESTS. I don’t know how much clearer I can be.
Second YOU are not making First Communion so you are not submitting to anything. A simple conversation about concepts is not a threatening thing, is it???
Father would speak to you about how Sacraments occur in community most likely.
He and the Archbishop are just peachy with homeschoolers, but greatly prefer that the Sacramental prep happen at the parish level.
It’s their call.
Parents have a right to homeschool. No one is questioning it. But it benefits the children to learn with their peers, especially for Sacraments. If you have lousy catechists or people that you simply don’t trust, I’m sorry. But we do good work.
Why are you arguing about this?
If everything is all wonderful, what would be the issue?
The Church has procedures in place for lots of things.

I’m out. you’re convinced that we’re out to get homeschoolers. nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Xantippe]

pianistclaire

Here is an article that might interest you. It both satisfies your view of delegation and mine of the authority of the issue in question.

canonlawmadeeasy.com/2014/06/05/who-is-responsible-for-childrens-religious-education/

I suspect that the pastor in the question was perfectly happy with what the DRE was doing and just threw her under the bus to get the parents off his back.

Pardon the mixed metaphor.

But I’m cynical like that.

So I wouldn’t necessarily buy the idea that there are gangs of rogue DREs roaming the land messing up good CCD programs–I suspect that Father gets more or less what Father wants, and that the CCD program reflects his general philosophy.

I understand that individual volunteers may be mavericks.

pianistclare, thoughts?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I suspect that the pastor in the question was perfectly happy with what the DRE was doing and just threw her under the bus to get the parents off his back.

Pardon the mixed metaphor.

But I’m cynical like that.

So I wouldn’t necessarily buy the idea that there are gangs of rogue DREs roaming the land messing up good CCD programs–I suspect that Father gets more or less what Father wants, and that the CCD program reflects his general philosophy.

I understand that individual volunteers may be mavericks.

pianistclare, thoughts?

I think you are absolutely correct. And I wish to say that I think the vast majority of DREs and volunteers are well meaning and competent.

I will say this. Our parish currently is on the 4th vicar in 10 years. They are supposed to be on 6 year rotations and 2 year rotations for the priests who are not vicars. In that time the DRE has been the same DRE. So the DRE’s policies may not reflect the current priest or any priest in particular but may just be something that the priest does not have to deal with because the DRE just handles the issues. This might be just fine in any given situation but it is not reflective of the Calling of the priesthood nor is it beneficial in a business model. Even if we live in a world and time where the priesthood is becoming more of a CEO than a Father, it still does not make good sense. Why would a priest seek the difficult task of changing personnel or the way things have been done in the past when he does not know where the Bishop will put him next year.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

First THERE ARE NO TESTS. I don’t know how much clearer I can be.
Second YOU are not making First Communion so you are not submitting to anything. A simple conversation about concepts is not a threatening thing, is it???
Father would speak to you about how Sacraments occur in community most likely.
He and the Archbishop are just peachy with homeschoolers, but greatly prefer that the Sacramental prep happen at the parish level.
It’s their call.
Parents have a right to homeschool. No one is questioning it. But it benefits the children to learn with their peers, especially for Sacraments. If you have lousy catechists or people that you simply don’t trust, I’m sorry. But we do good work.
Why are you arguing about this?
If everything is all wonderful, what would be the issue?
The Church has procedures in place for lots of things.

I’m out. you’re convinced that we’re out to get homeschoolers. nothing could be further from the truth.

I don’t want this to turn into a frustrating thing for either of us. I am sorry I thought you said that you did in fact “test” kids who are homeschooled twice a year to make sure they meet your standards.

I actually think that would be a good thing to do to all kids in a religious ed program. Perhaps you could consider that. I have the feeling kids would pay more attention if they had to be accountable to achieve the sacrament rather than attendance being the criteria.

Father would speak to you about how Sacraments occur in community most likely.
He and the Archbishop are just peachy with homeschoolers, but greatly prefer that the Sacramental prep happen at the parish level.
It’s their call.

And Father can have that opinion as well. That is fine. I do think that it is ignorant of the benifits of close knit families who perhaps wish for family formation to happen in the Domestic Church and not the parish hall for doge-ball and snacks every Sunday night.

Parents have a right to homeschool. No one is questioning it. But it benefits the children to learn with their peers, especially for Sacraments. If you have lousy catechists or people that you simply don’t trust, I’m sorry. But we do good work.

I cringe at this. It may just be the homeschooling protective dad in me who is surrounded by a world and even a Church that does not quite “get” homeschooling and has some preconceived judgement about it. Your entire statement would have been more palatable if you had just added two simple qualifiers.

But it MAY benefit SOME children to learn with their peers, especially for Sacraments.

To have left that out is as wrong as if I said ALL kids should learn the faith from home and not religious ed…

It also belies a simple point. My children would be learning sacrament prep with their peers… Their siblings…

I would happily support more religious ed programs if they were indeed faithful and rigorous. That has not been my experience which is why we have had to either become involved with the programs ourselves or decline them altogether.

But here is a great example. Sunday ( a generally family day) we will have this schedule.
We will wake up, get ready for the day, then I will peel off from my family while my wife takes all 5 kids herself and I will go and spend from 230-430 for the teen program at our parish that I have been a part of when we live in this town. Then my wife will take a separate car and meet us for Mass at 5. After Mass there is a two hour parent meeting for the pilot program for family led faith formation. There is also regular religious ed formation that the kids could attend at that time as well.

Ironic for this idea of being the primary educator of the faith. Oddly during the weekdays (our schooldays) we spend our time around our family table discussing the faith and learning more than they will ever get in a peer environment.

I must say that as we have discussed this I am currently wondering why we are going to do the parish formations at all!? I am actually talking myself out of it! But I will attend on Sunday night and see what the DRE has to say/teach. My guess since it is a “potluck” with us bringing a desert, is that it will be a bunch of office work handouts and forms with little theology involved at all.

But, I wonder, it would not be a bad idea to have Father test each kid in the program twice a year and ask blind questions for sacrament prep and make a ruling on it.

That might make a lot of DREs uneasy…

PC… I very much value your opinion, and your postings. I hope this small issue does not taint our online friendship. Understand that both of us probably have emotional responses to this based on our zeal and love of the children we prepare and educate. It’s just that mine are well… mine.

 

[Xantippe]

I think you are absolutely correct. And I wish to say that I think the vast majority of DREs and volunteers are well meaning and competent.

I will say this. Our parish currently is on the 4th vicar in 10 years. They are supposed to be on 6 year rotations and 2 year rotations for the priests who are not vicars. In that time the DRE has been the same DRE. So the DRE’s policies may not reflect the current priest or any priest in particular but may just be something that the priest does not have to deal with because the DRE just handles the issues. This might be just fine in any given situation but it is not reflective of the Calling of the priesthood nor is it beneficial in a business model. Even if we live in a world and time where the priesthood is becoming more of a CEO than a Father, it still does not make good sense. Why would a priest seek the difficult task of changing personnel or the way things have been done in the past when he does not know where the Bishop will put him next year.

That’s a real concern if the DRE is there for years while the priests rotate in and out.

I laugh at your rotations, though.

The parish we left a couple years back had 4 pastors in just over one calendar year. It was a nightmare for many, many reasons. We had a visiting missionary priest visit at one point and during Mass one of my kids asked me, “Is this our new pastor?” Poor kid!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

That’s a real concern if the DRE is there for years while the priests rotate in and out.

I laugh at your rotations, though.

The parish we left a couple years back had 4 pastors in just over one calendar year. It was a nightmare for many, many reasons. We had a visiting missionary priest visit at one point and during Mass one of my kids asked me, “Is this our new pastor?” Poor kid!

Ha! In poker you would have just been taken. I did not lead with the bigger issues.

That was just the vicars. Check this out we have 5 kids ten and under. That is 10 sacraments thus far. No priest has done more than one on any kid. So we have had 10 different priest administer the sacraments. 9 of them were at the same parish we are at now.

And then here is the Trump Card. The man who baptized my son told my daughter that she could not receive her first communion on the tongue. We fought that and won. But wait for it… He has left the priesthood and is married to another man now.

Girl please… Dont even try to play that game with me…

Yup the person who’s responsibility it was to oversee the formation of my kids and who’s hands confected the Eucharist And who’s hands baptized my baby boy is now “married” to another man…

So, I think I’ll go ahead and assume I am doing a more adequate job at my children formation. After all I am the primary educator…

 

[VickiQ]

Being a Catholic is hard. I thought religions should have an impact on you that does not consist of, “it’s this way or no way or else”…I am not trying to be mean, but I do not understand why Catholics have to go through so much to finally get Confirmed. When I was growing up it was a lot easier. Children now-a-days are busy with sports and homework, etc., then they have to do all this stuff for CCD, especially Confirmation. I originally asked about Homeschooling to maybe avoid some of the running around, but it doesn’t seem much different. Am I a bad Catholic if I decide to pull my children from CCD all together??? Please do not gang up on me for saying anything out of line, I am just trying to figure out what is right for me and my family. I do not want to start an argument or anything like that. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.