CCD Teacher Statement about Priesthood

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I brought my son to his confirmation CCD orientation this evening.

The teacher seemed like a fine person and the approach seemed appropriate.

However, near the end of the orientation she said the Church changes from the bottom up and that it has already changed including the role of women. Then she said that she believes that the Church will ordain women in her lifetime and that we need to hear from more than “one-half” of the population.

I was unhappy about this. Any suggestions?
 
  1. Pray for her.
  2. Be charitable (this does not mean politically correct).
  3. Be priudent (wait until the situation is right to bring it up).
  4. Gently remind her that Pope John Paul the Great closed the issue saying that the Church has NO authority on the issue.
 
I would first ask her (not in front of the kids) what she believes will be the scriptural or sacred traditional things that will cause this change of heart by the church? She will fail to provide you with anything. I would then ask her why she believes she should be sharing her preferences that are counter to church teaching? Then I would report her to the pastor. If the pastor supported her point of view, I would change parishes and report the lot of them to the Bishop. Your child’s religious education is far too important to take a passive approach to this. I would even consider enrolling your child in a different confirmation class at another parish…tomorrow.
 
Thanks for the advice.
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StCsDavid:
I would even consider enrolling your child in a different confirmation class at another parish…tomorrow.
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I know what you mean but I have been running to other parishes in other towns for over 10 years. It is time I stayed and spoke.
 
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Coder:
Then she said that she believes that the Church will ordain women in her lifetime and that we need to hear from more than “one-half” of the population.
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This is roughly wht I heard several times from the local priest here. That the Church should have started to ordain women a long time ago.
 
Many people have deluded themselves into thinking that such things will happen. Mainly it’s people of my generation, the older people, who have maintained these fantasies.

The Pope has already spoken on the ordination of women. It cannot happen.

It seems odd to me that everyone can understand intuitively why a man can not be made into a Mother, but many have a hard time understanding why a woman can not become a Father.

In acting “in the person of Christ,” a priest lends his body, and his entire person, to Christ to use as His instrument in the Sacraments. It is the priest whom we see, but it is Christ who acts. Christ came into the world as a man; we cannot force him to change his gender.
 
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Coder:
I brought my son to his confirmation CCD orientation this evening.

The teacher seemed like a fine person and the approach seemed appropriate.

However, near the end of the orientation she said the Church changes from the bottom up and that it has already changed including the role of women. Then she said that she believes that the Church will ordain women in her lifetime and that we need to hear from more than “one-half” of the population.

I was unhappy about this. Any suggestions?
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I would have reminded her that her role as a catechist requires her to keep her personal opinions to herself. If she interjects them into her role as catechist it could cause her to loose her teaching authority granted to her by the Church. Also that the Church is not a democracy. 99% of the Church could demand this and it still would not change anything.
 
Call the Parish and ask Father to enroll her in R.C.I.A. just so she can learn some more. She obviously is lacking. Perhaps buy her a Cathechism for Christmas from the class and pray for her, (and as someone above said, ask her to keep her personal opinions to herself), perhaps even print something out from this site or EWTN and give it to her showing her the proof, that even if 100% of the people wanted this changed, that it still couldn’t change.
Wouldn’t it be nice if when people were teaching on behalf of the Catholic Church that they ALL actually taught what it teaches?
 
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Coder:
Are the Pope’s statements regarding the priesthood in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis considered an infallible and/or ex Cathedra teaching that is unchangeable Catholic doctrine?

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html
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There has been a good bit of discussion as to whether or not the language JP2 used was intended as an ex cathedra statement or not. The greater number of theologians seem to hold that it was not, and Rome seems to lend credence with statements that have been made subsequently.

However, it needs to be understood that there are only two recognized statements in the history of the Church that are ex cathedra; the Immacualte Conception and the Assumption.

That does not mean that the statements are not infallible, as infallibility also resides in councils stating doctrine, and it also resides in the constant teaching of the Church. His statement is seen as the latter: as formal sttement of what has been and is the teaching of the Church since the time of the apostles.
 
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Coder:
Are the Pope’s statements regarding the priesthood in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis considered an infallible and/or ex Cathedra teaching that is unchangeable Catholic doctrine?

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html
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The Popes statements in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis are infallible and unchangable and have been defined as such by the CDF twice from the Ordinary Magisterium. Not Ex Cathedra which is the Extra-Ordinary Magisterium.
 
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JimG:
Many people have deluded themselves into thinking that such things will happen. Mainly it’s people of my generation, the older people, who have maintained these fantasies.
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It is a sad truth that the Vatican II generation were taught that disobedience works. Many of the “innovations” of the 70’s and 80’s were the result of a lack of order and firm leadership in the Church leading to abuses many of which were either grudgingly permitted after they had been in operation for some time or worse still continued by renegades even after being condemned. You are right that that it is people of our generation that grew up in the 50’s and 60’s and saw how the Church that they thought was unchangeable could be forced into change. They cling to the myth that everything can be changed if only enough people demand it, hence the reason they keep wanting to discuss it. If you say it often enough with conviction enough who knows you might get away with it. What they don’t understand is that “the times they are a’changing” and they are no longer the cutting edge but the sad remnants of the past. They will keep perpetuating their fantasies but the Church and the youth have moved on towards a Church that is both traditional and yet retains the true spirit of Vatican II. Though it may upset us at times to wait I think patience will see out these fossilised baby boomers.

In the case of the CCD teacher however I would write a formal complaint to the Parish Priest as this woman is clearly teaching contrary to the Magisterium on a subject that has been clearly defined.
 
I think its sad that parishes have to rely on CCD teachers who are not grounded in their faith. Perhaps if more people stepped up to the plate… 😉 :whistle:
 
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InnocentIII:
You are right that that it is people of our generation that grew up in the 50’s and 60’s and saw how the Church that they thought was unchangeable could be forced into change. They cling to the myth that everything can be changed if only enough people demand it, hence the reason they keep wanting to discuss it. “the times they are a’changing” and they are no longer the cutting edge but the sad remnants of the past. They will keep perpetuating their fantasies but the Church and the youth have moved on towards a Church that is both traditional and yet retains the true spirit of Vatican II. Though it may upset us at times to wait I think patience will see out these fossilised baby boomers.
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Thanks loads for the confidence. Fossilised I may be but a boomer? Never!
 
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rwoehmke:
Thanks loads for the confidence. Fossilised I may be but a boomer? Never!
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Awwhh … sorry rwoehmke. Just for you I will delete the boomer and leaved it at fossils!!! 😃
 
Due to a number of problematic and negative statements from some organizations within the Church that followed Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, wrote a reply, approved by John Paul II, and published in 1995. Part of it reads, “The teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, is to be held definitively and is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.” It concluded, “This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium during the Second Vatican Council, in the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church. Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf.Lk 22:32), has handed on the same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.”
 
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otm:
However, it needs to be understood that there are only two recognized statements in the history of the Church that are ex cathedra; the Immacualte Conception and the Assumption.

That does not mean that the statements are not infallible, as infallibility also resides in councils stating doctrine, and it also resides in the constant teaching of the Church. His statement is seen as the latter: as formal sttement of what has been and is the teaching of the Church since the time of the apostles.
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Does this mean that the teaching would be as unchangeable as the teaching about the Eucharist for example?
 
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Coder:
Does this mean that the teaching would be as unchangeable as the teaching about the Eucharist for example?
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YES. Anything which is part of the “Deposit of Faith” is deemed unchangeable for ALL TIME.
 
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Coder:
I brought my son to his confirmation CCD orientation this evening.

The teacher seemed like a fine person and the approach seemed appropriate.

However, near the end of the orientation she said the Church changes from the bottom up and that it has already changed including the role of women. Then she said that she believes that the Church will ordain women in her lifetime and that we need to hear from more than “one-half” of the population.

I was unhappy about this. Any suggestions?
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Find another parish to take your child to CCD.
 
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