CDF prefect confirms: ordination of women is impossible, teaching is permanent

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Edward_H

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Confirmed, again

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I think it’s good to reaffirm things that might have been forgotten! Sometimes people forget that water is wet 😂
 
Unfortunately, it’s probably necessary every month or so.
 
Great news!

I wish the Pope would formally declare this doctrine ex cathedra so that it cannot be questioned. This solemn act would finally and definitively end the debate.
 
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Saxum said:
Great news!

I wish the Pope would formally declare this doctrine ex cathedra so that it cannot be questioned. This solemn act would finally and definitively end the debate.
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Of course it wouldn’t. Those who wish not to believe will continue to do so, regardless.
 
Jesus did not chose any women to be apostles, but he never said that women could not be apostles. He said that we all are responsible for our brothers and sisters.
I see nothing wrong with women being ordained as priests.
Half of Catholics are women.
We have a large shortage of priests.
There would be no shortage, if women were allowed to be priests.
 
That Jesus did not ordain women has, really, nothing to do with the debate. He didn’t ordain Gentiles, either. He also didn’t go on computers or address the morality of cloning.

The real issue is whether or not, as a Catholic, you accept that the authority of the Catholic Church is not 'Because the Pope says so" or “because this law says so”, but because God Almighty has said so, and has given authority to the Church to proclaim “what He says”.

That is why the Church doesn’t say, “but Popes have never ordained women” or “Jesus didn’t ordain women” etc. People in the church have made these comments, and others, as ‘possible reasons’ (and the more honest have been quick to state that these are possibilities only). . .

But what the Church actually has said is this:

"The Church has no authority to ordain women.

Has. No. Authority.

There it is in a nutshell.

Just as the Church has no authority to confect beer and pizza as Eucharist, instead of wine and wheat bread. . .or has no authority to join a man and a man, or a woman and a women, in marriage.

Not ‘laws made by men’.

Not, "things which existed because ‘back then’, it was the custom’.

Not, "what some fallible human in AD 2018 thinks is necessary or fair or politic.

What God has decreed, and allows His Church to proclaim, until He comes again.

But when Jesus returns, will He find faith on earth?
 
Just like they pick and choose which Sacraments to believe in. Well, thank God for the CDF.
 
Wait–Jesus didn’t go on computers?!
 
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“But when Jesus returns, will He find faith on earth?”

He’ll find plenty of dissenters, if CAF is any kind of microcosm!
 
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dochawk said:
will, and water will remain wet.
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I’ve touched water that was sticky, not wet. (It was freezer-made ice cubes.)

But in all seriousness, I will agree a bit that it is the 2+2=4 kind of news. Old for us, but a reminder for others,
 
Actually, the Bible talks about Gentiles becoming priests. It was one of the Messianic prophecies: everybody including Gentiles would come to God’s holy mountain, and some of the Gentile men would be picked out by the Lord to become priests and Levites.

There is nothing anywhere about God making women become priests. Not the matriarchs, not women of Aaron’s line, not queen mothers, not Mary and the female disciples – not anybody female.

The only priestesses you see in the Bible are pagan temple prostitutes, Israelite women slipping into pagan worship of Astarte et al with the raisin cake sacrifices, and still more pagan temple prostitutes.

Even the witch of Endor doesn’t seem to be doing priestly stuff. She says she has a “spirit,” but she doesn’t slaughter any animals to make it come.

Prophetesses? Yup. Judges? There’s one. Women with various kinds of secular authority? Sure. But not priests.

Even in Eden, which is basically the surrounds of a primeval Temple, Adam is the one doing priestly work. Eve is his “ally” (ezer), but she doesn’t seem to be doing anything priestly or Levitic. If I knew more about the duties of women of the priestly lines, I might see some hints there; but there’s no hint that Eve was a priest before the Fall. (Unlike Adam, who clearly acted as a priest before and after.)
 
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It’ll be like once when I went out back after a heavy spring rain and yelled at 10000 frogs to shut up! They went silent, but I no sooner got back into bed when I heard one…then three…then ten…then fifty…
 
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The trouble is that over the 2,000-plus years of the Church, the Church has said and done many things.
I remember when eating meat an any given Friday was a mortal sin. But now, only on select days.
The fact of the matter is that the Church can do and has done, pretty much, whatever the Church has wanted to do over the years.
 
I think it would be difficult for most women to choose the priesthood over marriage and a family.
 
And so we have another poster incapable of distinguishing between doctrine and disciplines :roll_eyes:
 
Ah yes, the distinction between dogma and discipline is lost. . .and what you have also failed to grasp is that the eating of meat was never a sin.

If eating meat were a sin, it would be forbidden at all times.

But it is a discipline (and just about everybody who is not a complete and utter couch potato has disciplined his or her body through ‘giving up’ something, whether sweets, fats, carbs, sodas. . .or by ‘giving up’ just sitting around in order to exercise).

Disciplines help our bodies (and minds) to function well.

They are changeable because different people have different needs at different times.

The sacrament (it is a sacrament, instituted by God Himself, not a discipline administered, under God’s guidance and not in defiance of His will, by men striving to follow out His commands) of Holy Orders is something completely different. It isn’t a 'job made by men to do X, Y, and Z, but a calling from God Himself, and involving the methodology HE (not ‘people’) has chosen, which is why HE has the authority to decide what HE will use in a sacrament, and WE do not.

So if you’re going to address ‘what the Church has changed’ why don’t you tell me what SACRAMENTS it has changed. When did the Church decide to change ‘bread and wine’ for the Eucharist into cookies and milk --oh wait, it didn’t. When did the Church decide to let men marry men and women marry women–oh wait, it didn’t. When did the sacrament of reconciliation change to allow people to ‘phone in confession’ or have ‘auto-forgiveness’ --oh wait, it didn’t. When did baptism change from a trinitarian formula with water to a champagne bath in the name of Mother Earth --oh wait, it didn’t.

Sure, ‘external’ changes happened. Reconciliation went from public to private, but at any time could become public again (just as ordination went from married and single men to single only, but could become married and single again), the Eucharist age for 1st communion has been anything from birth upward in the Eastern churches to ages 7, 12, 14. . .

Those are EXTERNALS.

The rite of ordination does not use exactly the same words or garments or ‘underground catacombs’ but the purpose is the same.

If you’re really interested in the history of the Church and its sacraments, then instead of pulling out the usual, "But if the Church did X as a change, then obviously ANYTHING can change’ claptrap you would have the intellectual honesty and courtesy to know what the Church teaches and why so that if you still didn’t agree, at least you wouldn’t look like a fool trying to make a comparison that has absolutely nothing to do with the facts (generic ‘you’ of course).
 
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