Celebacy for Priests or not?

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WilT said:
I seem to be hearing a lot about Pope Francis possibly doing away with celibacy. I believe he hasn’t but the papers are really pushing this possibility. What is the truth I wonder. I don’t believe priest should marry but I know they are others thinking differently.
ph.news.yahoo.com/non-celibate-pinoy-priests-welcome-pope-francis-statement-000517497.html

:eek::tsktsk:
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I seriously doubt that he will do that in the Latin Church, although I believe that he has acknowledged the possibility; however, the possibility of ordaining married men is nothing new. Also, one must distinguish between ordaining married men, and the marriage of priests. The former is not only a possibility, but a reality on a regular basis among the Eastern Church and on a limited basis in the Latin Church; the latter is forbidden by canon law. Lastly, I don’t think people should confuse Pope Francis’s actions in lifting restrictions on the ordination of married men in the Eastern Churches in the Americas (which if a restoration of Eastern tradition) with what he will do in the Latin Church.
 
It really doesn’t matter what we think. Celibacy is not a dogma but rather a discipline.

The Pope can do what he wants in this instance. My personal opinion is “no, we shouldn’t”.

St.JPII even agreed with my opinion. I probably will not be affected by this as I attend the FSSP. But still I would hate to see this occur.
 
RyanBlack said:
I seriously doubt that he will do that in the Latin Church, although I believe that he has acknowledged the possibility; however, the possibility of ordaining married men is nothing new. Also, one must distinguish between ordaining married men, and the marriage of priests. The former is not only a possibility, but a reality on a regular basis among the Eastern Church and on a limited basis in the Latin Church; the latter is forbidden by canon law. Lastly, I don’t think people should confuse Pope Francis’s actions in lifting restrictions on the ordination of married men in the Eastern Churches in the Americas (which if a restoration of Eastern tradition) with what he will do in the Latin Church.
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👍

I think there are opportunities with the married priesthood that take nothing, rather add to, the celibate priesthood.
 
I think that within twenty years, if not a lot sooner, this discipline will be voluntary. Catholics seem to like that the priest is making this very big personal sacrifice. The rank and file are not. I don’t think it’s fair to expect someone else to give up everything to become a priest. Most Catholics men wouldn’t or couldn’t do it.
Almost all clergy of other religions, Christian and not, are married and it works very well. Catholics will get used to it too. It will become normal to see the priest with his children.
 
sscott said:
I think that within twenty years, if not a lot sooner, this discipline will be voluntary. Catholics seem to like that the priest is making this very big personal sacrifice. The rank and file are not. I don’t think it’s fair to expect someone else to give up everything to become a priest. Most Catholics men wouldn’t or couldn’t do it.
Almost all clergy of other religions, Christian and not, are married and it works very well. Catholics will get used to it too. It will become normal to see the priest with his children.
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next 20 YEARS? I thought u would say 50 or 100. 20 is too ambitious :o
 
WilT said:
I seem to be hearing a lot about Pope Francis possibly doing away with celibacy. I believe he hasn’t but the papers are really pushing this possibility. What is the truth I wonder. I don’t believe priest should marry but I know they are others thinking differently.
ph.news.yahoo.com/non-celibate-pinoy-priests-welcome-pope-francis-statement-000517497.html

:eek::tsktsk:
Click to expand...
“Doing away with celibacy” won’t happen. At most, we may see a broader application of the dispensation that allows married men to be ordained. Priests already ordained won’t be allowed to marry nor will most religious order priests due to the community element of their vocation.

My complete guess is that what we may see first is an allowance for some older men in stable marriages who have already been ordained as permanent deacons allowed to study for the priesthood.

Any change is likely to be slow and gradual.
 
sscott said:
I think that within twenty years, if not a lot sooner, this discipline will be voluntary. Catholics seem to like that the priest is making this very big personal sacrifice. The rank and file are not. I don’t think it’s fair to expect someone else to give up everything to become a priest. Most Catholics men wouldn’t or couldn’t do it.
Almost all clergy of other religions, Christian and not, are married and it works very well. Catholics will get used to it too. It will become normal to see the priest with his children.
Click to expand...
Here’s a practical reason why it won’t happen: most dioceses don’t have the money to support both priests and their families.

Also, most priests support celibacy. While there is obviously an anthropological challenge for priests, they still find the comfort of the feminine in our Blessed Mother and in the Church. And if their devotion is strong, they are just as much in love with the feminine as a married man.
 
Corki said:
“Doing away with celibacy” won’t happen. At most, we may see a broader application of the dispensation that allows married men to be ordained. Priests already ordained won’t be allowed to marry nor will most religious order priests due to the community element of their vocation.

My complete guess is that what we may see first is an allowance for some older men in stable marriages who have already been ordained as permanent deacons allowed to study for the priesthood.

Any change is likely to be slow and gradual.
Click to expand...
Agreed and I think it will only happen in Diocese with serious priest shortages. For example, I read that one Bishop, who’s diocese covers the Amazon Rainforest is hoping for a dispensation because he has approx 2 priests to cover thousands of square miles. That same area has approx 100+ deacons, but only 2 priests. The idea is to allow the deacons to complete formation and become priests.

The Holy Father is looking at this. I think the issue really is what happens if/when you let that cat out of the bag? What situations warrant it and which situation does not?

If it happens, it must be a rare situation… Priests must be attempted to be “imported” into such a Diocese before dispensation.
 
salvemater said:
Here’s a practical reason why it won’t happen: most dioceses don’t have the money to support both priests and their families.

Also, most priests support celibacy. While there is obviously an anthropological challenge for priests, they still find the comfort of the feminine in our Blessed Mother and in the Church. And if their devotion is strong, they are just as much in love with the feminine as a married man.
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Yes, even a married priest (Anglican convert) who just died this year used to say that its best for the priest be to celibate.

A priest’s job is more demanding than a Protestant minister’s. A Protestant Minister’s job is more like a Catholic Deacon. More and more priests are assigned to more than one parish (twin parishes), have to pray the LOTH daily, have to do mass daily, go to the hospitals often, etc.

Even when they are on vacation, they need to celebrate mass and pray the LOTH.

It’s takes a special kind of woman to be married to a priest. (to Catholic Deacons and Protestant minister’s too).

Also, in general Latin Church parishes are bigger than Eastern ones. A co-worker was telling me that when he used to live in Greece, there were a ton of tiny Orthodox Chapels. It’s my understanding, that in the Eastern Churches, the diocesan priests (the ones who can be married) on average have smaller parishes when compared to their Latin cousins.

God bless
 
salvemater said:
Here’s a practical reason why it won’t happen: most dioceses don’t have the money to support both priests and their families.

Also, most priests support celibacy. While there is obviously an anthropological challenge for priests, they still find the comfort of the feminine in our Blessed Mother and in the Church. And if their devotion is strong, they are just as much in love with the feminine as a married man.
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I agree:thumbsup:
 
sscott said:
I think that within twenty years, if not a lot sooner, this discipline will be voluntary. Catholics seem to like that the priest is making this very big personal sacrifice. The rank and file are not. I don’t think it’s fair to expect someone else to give up everything to become a priest. Most Catholics men wouldn’t or couldn’t do it.
Almost all clergy of other religions, Christian and not, are married and it works very well. Catholics will get used to it too. It will become normal to see the priest with his children.
Click to expand...
Of course “most Catholic men” won’t do it…the vast majority of Catholics’ calling is to get married. I think it absolutely is fair to expect someone to give up everything to become a priest. I mean, Jesus expected the 12 apostles to give up everything, and they did, including their families. And of course clergy of all other religions allow it; most (although not all, I suppose - maybe I shouldn’t make such a blanket statement but this is what it seems to me) non-Catholic clergy does not have the same demands from his people that a Catholic priest does. A Catholic priest must be available to his parish at all times, or very near all times. I don’t know whether the Church will make her celibacy requirements less strict; but even if they do, it most definitely will not be the norm.

The priests in that yahoo story do not impress me one bit. Someone may correct me if I am wrong, but I would venture to guess that the priest that “got married” is not really married - wouldn’t that be an invalid marriage? At the best, something is very wrong with their situation, and the married priest’s situation especially. The solution to something a Catholic priest disagrees with is not to openly defy the Church. (Well, I guess if the Church were to try to do something that is ACTUALLY against Canon Law or something like that I guess it would be different, but that’s not gonna happen.) Not to mention that they have openly broken their promises.

I don’t mean to sound uncharitable…only judging actions here. Issues like this really get on my nerves.
 
WilT said:
I seem to be hearing a lot about Pope Francis possibly doing away with celibacy. I believe he hasn’t but the papers are really pushing this possibility. What is the truth I wonder. I don’t believe priest should marry but I know they are others thinking differently.
ph.news.yahoo.com/non-celibate-pinoy-priests-welcome-pope-francis-statement-000517497.html

:eek::tsktsk:
Click to expand...
I don’t trust any secular media sources on the Church matters. I doubt we change the discipline of celibacy soon.

Now even if we did I would still probably chose to live a celibate life, God willing I’m ordained I want to give my entire to the Church and I think part of that is living a celibate life. Because I believe that the Church will be my spouse not being celibate would be like having two wives.
 
phil19034 said:
Agreed and I think it will only happen in Diocese with serious priest shortages. For example, I read that one Bishop, who’s diocese covers the Amazon Rainforest is hoping for a dispensation because he has approx 2 priests to cover thousands of square miles. That same area has approx 100+ deacons, but only 2 priests. The idea is to allow the deacons to complete formation and become priests.

The Holy Father is looking at this. I think the issue really is what happens if/when you let that cat out of the bag? What situations warrant it and which situation does not?

If it happens, it must be a rare situation… Priests must be attempted to be “imported” into such a Diocese before dispensation.
Click to expand...
the problem I have with this logic is that the priesthood is not about filling numbers and making sure we have a priest for every 500 families or something like that. The priesthood is something much deeper than just being a minister of the church. A priest first gives up his entire life to the church, he gives everything. I’m sure ministers do that to but the big difference is that we actually take on Christ in our priesthood. We are not just a minister we are in the person of Christ.

Practically it may make sense for priests to be married it may help us fix this shortage of priests, but theological I just don’t think it would work. I believe I’m correct in saying that the priest is a spouse of the Church, now that doesn’t mean they can’t get married, but theologically it makes sense that priests are celibate. In the old covenant priesthood they would have to be abstinent for I think 24 hours before entering into the temple maybe longer. Priests now say mass daily. I actually think in the eastern Church where married men become priests they still must be chaste a certain amount of time before they offer the sacrifice of the Mass. But they only say mass oh about once a week. The latin rite says it daily.

Note: I think Paul VI encyclical almost puts it in stone, I think I will die before we change this discipline.
 
Lately I have been struggling with this issue, as I grew up with both married clergy and some who were celibate as a member of TEC.

I know priests who converted from the Anglican Communion to become Catholic priests and many are married. Some have done a wonderful job of maintaining their focal focus on the Church and I would assume family second. I know at least one who it appears to be having difficulty as he must also teach at a Catholic institution of some sort and also be the Pastor of his flock and be a husband and father which for some is very difficult.

Although I know that this really has nothing to do with whether a priest is celibate or not, however, I will say that when I was in an Anglican parish and now a Catholic one I actually sensed a difference in my attitude towards the priest. It probably is just in my mind, however, I know that both are legitimate priests in the eyes of the Church, it is just that I feel emotionally that there is something different from one that I don’t feel for the married priest. Maybe it is just knowing that a celibate priest won’t be sharing with (which is human nature) his spouse about what happened that day when he was being pastoral towards someone.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
It is interesting how our modern world has, and I believe this is common with all prosperous societies, lost the positive concept of sacrifice being part of a normal life.

I think the widespread use of birth control is a larger factor than being married.

This does 2 things. First is creates smaller families with fewer men so the available pool from which to draw is smaller. It is much more difficult to choose to live a celibate life, either male or female, if you are the only person to continue the family line. Or one of 2 rather than one of 8.

Secondly, sex is such a deep physical and emotional driver of people, since the free expression allowed by birth control, it has sort of gotten out of hand in out society. The focus has become “how can I be happy” instead of “how can I be holy”, in whatever calling we have. This chase of happiness has turned into a pursuit of pleasure which is not necessarily the highest or best focus of a human life.

So, I guess I see the priest shortage more a symptom of our collective spiritual norms rather than our cultural norms. Not sure that will be resolved by marriage.

Pax
 
catholictiger said:
the problem I have with this logic is that the priesthood is not about filling numbers and making sure we have a priest for every 500 families or something like that. The priesthood is something much deeper than just being a minister of the church. A priest first gives up his entire life to the church, he gives everything. I’m sure ministers do that to but the big difference is that we actually take on Christ in our priesthood. We are not just a minister we are in the person of Christ.

Practically it may make sense for priests to be married it may help us fix this shortage of priests, but theological I just don’t think it would work. I believe I’m correct in saying that the priest is a spouse of the Church, now that doesn’t mean they can’t get married, but theologically it makes sense that priests are celibate. In the old covenant priesthood they would have to be abstinent for I think 24 hours before entering into the temple maybe longer. Priests now say mass daily. I actually think in the eastern Church where married men become priests they still must be chaste a certain amount of time before they offer the sacrifice of the Mass. But they only say mass oh about once a week. The latin rite says it daily.

Note: I think Paul VI encyclical almost puts it in stone, I think I will die before we change this discipline.
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These are great points. I learned a few new things. Your points just add to the complication of allowing married priests.

i wonder though, what is the requirement for Anglican Priests who become Priests in the Anglican Ordinariates? Are they allowed to have sex with their wives? I know the Anglican Use Parish in Philadelphia has mass every day, and I believe they only have one priest.

BTW - I’m not personally in favor of allowing more married priests. I’m just curious as to how it would happen if it did, from an academic/theological point of view.

God Bless
 
phil19034 said:
These are great points. I learned a few new things. Your points just add to the complication of allowing married priests.

i wonder though, what is the requirement for Anglican Priests who become Priests in the Anglican Ordinariates? Are they allowed to have sex with their wives? I know the Anglican Use Parish in Philadelphia has mass every day, and I believe they only have one priest.

BTW - I’m not personally in favor of allowing more married priests. I’m just curious as to how it would happen if it did, from an academic/theological point of view.

God Bless
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someone else will have to clear this up for me. We do have a anglican priest who is married and has children in our diocese but I, for very good reasons, know nothing of his private life. Being cradle Catholic myself the thought of what it would be like to be a married priest never really entered my mind. Well a few times it did but never enough to do research no it.

Note: I can’t take credit for what I said, this came from my scripture professor at seminary. Very smart man.
 
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