Celebrity crushes

[Gordon_Sims]

Visual stimulation will be a natural, regular, and daily part of a man’s life, and he can’t change this because it’s the way God created him…

But lust and a polygamous lifestyle are choices that a man makes. Therefore, a man can choose to reject lust and polygamy.

Actually, the tendency toward polygamy is hardwired into a man’s brain. His brain craves multiple sexual partners and sexual visual stimuli. It’s exactly how God created us. By your logic, we should follow God’s biological, not spiritual plans for us. We can’t change that part of our physiological makeup, so we should just give in to it.

Sleeping with a member of the opposite sex that you are not married to, and crushing on a celeb are not in the same ballpark. When you slept with the woman, you were with a real person, and there was a real opportunity for sexual sin.

But when I crush on a celeb, he is not “real” in my part of the world, and there is no possibility of sex sin, at least for me.

I’ve slept with male friends countless times over the years. There was no more possibility of sexual sin with that particular female friend than there was with any of my male friends (less, depending on the male friend, come to think of it). It was a purely innocent, lust-free situation. Why on earth would anyone think that it was inappropriate?

I realize that some people might be in danger of committing the sins of lusting and masturbation when they think about their celeb, but I think this is the exception rather than the rule, especially with women. The whole point of crushing on a celeb is to be “safe” from the possibility of sex–it’s a platonic “relationship”.

I disagree. I’d bet that totally lust-free crushes are the very minor exception to the rule. Just taking your definition and your assertion that women don’t necessarily fall into lust based on looks but require additional encouragement to do so, if you’re engaging in romantic fantasies about an idealized version of someone you already view as attractive and glamorous, how many steps away from lust is that?

I believe most of the questions I’ve posed have been fair and objective, but the answers I keep getting are entirely subjective and are along the lines of, “It’s okay when you do it my way because that’s how I like it so it must be good,” and, “I’m a woman, so there.” And like I’ve mentioned a few times already, when I give examples of crushes that are word-for-word identical to the examples others have given, just with an unacceptable (in your opinion) object of the crush, you have no problem seeing that it’s at least inappropriate. So if someone behaves exactly like you do and their crush is wrong, from a purely objective point of view, what makes it inappropriate?

 

[Bruised_Reed]

With each of the examples I’ve given I’ve framed them as being the exact same sort of crushes that others have described. You told me the one specific example I gave was creepy. Other examples I’ve given have been described as sinful, lustful and inappropriate. Nowhere did I say I was doing anything any different than Cat or whoever. So if acting that way toward Robert Patrick or Ariel is okay, why is it creepy when it’s the babysitter,

most people think it’s gross for a man, with children, finding another child attractive.

sinful if it’s the porn star,

I said it would be difficult to enjoy her work without sinning. What exactly do you find attractive about this person?

or inappropriate if it’s my coworker?

Crushes can sometimes make a person act goofy. You know, trying to sneak looks, walking into doors, saying her name when talking to someone else (ex-b/f called a co-worker by my name.) Entertaining the coworker crush could create embarrassment for both parties.

And, just in case I haven’t made it clear yet, I think they’re all inappropriate. I think it’s highly inconsistent to say the ones you or Cat or whoever else engages in are okay solely on the basis of the fact that they’re the sort of crushes you want to engage in, but then say these others are creepy, sinful and wrong solely on the basis that they’re not the sort of crushes you find appropriate.

Well, you do pick extreme and inappropriate examples. I don’t think a crush on persons you offer as examples are sinful but have other problems described above.

As I’ve said over and over, most of the people in here grasp that there’s a wrongness to this behavior on some level. They just keep stating that theirs are fine because they’re the one engaging in them, while these others are wrong for some arbitrary reason. It all smacks of relativism. My porn use is fine because I can handle. My abortion wasn’t a sin because the baby wouldn’t have had a good life anyway. Me lusting after another woman is just dandy because my wife says it’s okay and she does it herself.

No. No one here is saying lust is okay. A crush and lust are not the same thing.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

most people think it’s gross for a man, with children, finding another child attractive.

I said it would be difficult to enjoy her work without sinning. What exactly do you find attractive about this person?
Crushes can sometimes make a person act goofy. You know, trying to sneak looks, walking into doors, saying her name when talking to someone else (ex-b/f called a co-worker by my name.) Entertaining the coworker crush could create embarrassment for both parties.

All your responses are subjective. Crushes spring from naturally occurring feelings and attractions. One could argue that a teenager isn’t a child, technically speaking. With the porn star I’ve mentioned most, there’s no reason on earth one would have to have ever seen any of her work to have gained a vast amount of exposure to her. And a coworker is an adult. If the feelings and activities one experiences with a crush are objectively and morally appropriate and sinless, then there’s no valid, objective reason that me pinning up their pictures and fantasizing about them when I’m with my wife should be seen as wrong.

Well, you do pick extreme and inappropriate examples. I don’t think a crush on persons you offer as examples are sinful but have other problems described above.

Again, that’s a subjective response. If I have a crush on a porn star, the babysitter, my coworker, my son’s girlfriend or my wife’s sister, there’s no valid, objective reason to say that it’s different than having a crush on Sophia Loren, Taylor Swift, Cinderella or whichever celebrity you’d deem acceptable.

No. No one here is saying lust is okay. A crush and lust are not the same thing.

What they are saying is that their activities are appropriate because they approve of them, their spouse approves of them or because they’re biologically programmed to behave that way. If fantasizing about someone other than your spouse is objectively wrong, then any excuse you give is invalid. If you argue that it’s acceptable, then who are you to set the boundaries of what those fantasies entail? It’s already been established, by some at least, that romantic fantasies about your crush are fine and dandy. My view of romance is most likely different than yours so I won’t have the same sort of fantasies. Since we’ve established that fantasizing about someone other than your spouse is somehow acceptable within the bounds of marriage, now we just need to bargain on the limits. And since zero isn’t the limit, any argument you give for some other limit will be entirely arbitrary and subjective.

“But my fantasy about Robert Urich spearfishing in a speedo isn’t lust!” Fine, then my fantasy about the time I saw the babysitter washing her dad’s Stingray in a bikini isn’t lust, either. I can fantasize about that forward, backward and in slow motion as often as I want, whenever and wherever I want because it’s just an innocent, lust-free crush. The limits aren’t zero, so it’s all relative.

 

[Sophie_Lawrence]

@ Gordon Sims. No one in this thread has justified anything close to fantasizing abouy Robert Ulrich fishing in a Speedo.

Fantasy does not equal lust.

When I was perhaps 5 I had a crush on Davy Jones. A local station reran the Monkees. I would daydream about being in the chase scenes, I thought they were really funny. No lust involved. A few years ago my husband tried getting tickets for me to see the Monkees in concert. I had told him about my crush as a child.

Sadly, we couldn’t go. When Davy Jones passed away, I was saddened, and I prayed for him.

Not once ever did I have lustful or inappropriate thoughts about him.

I’m not sure why you are insisting " crush" must equal lust, or near occasions of sin. Or that “fantasy” has to do with sexual imagery.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

@ Gordon Sims. No one in this thread has justified anything close to fantasizing abouy Robert Ulrich fishing in a Speedo.

Fantasy does not equal lust.

Others have mentioned having unquestionably romantic fantasies about their crushes. You choose your version of a romantic fantasy, I’ll choose mine. If romantic fantasies about someone other than your spouse are okay, then spearfishing, car washing, mud wrestling and hot tub fantasies are all fair game. And if those are fair game, then relatively speaking, there’s no valid, objective reason that I can’t bargain things up to something even racier, as long as I say that there’s no lust involved, or claim that it brings me closer to my wife. What’s good for the goose, you know.

 

[Cat]

Others have mentioned having unquestionably romantic fantasies about their crushes. You choose your version of a romantic fantasy, I’ll choose mine. If romantic fantasies about someone other than your spouse are okay, then spearfishing, car washing, mud wrestling and hot tub fantasies are all fair game. And if those are fair game, then relatively speaking, there’s no valid, objective reason that I can’t bargain things up to something even racier, as long as I say that there’s no lust involved, or claim that it brings me closer to my wife. What’s good for the goose, you know.

I think you are deliberately looking for a way to label wholesome fantasies, wistful dreams, and innocent wishes as dirty and sinful practices. I’m not sure why you are doing this.

Considering the plethora of unsavory weirdoes who seem to live in your area, perhaps you have simply never met anyone who has a crush on a celebrity and is totally without lust or any tendency to sin.

Why not do as the Bible says, and dwell on what it true, honorable, right, pure, lovely, and of good repute, and assume that other Christians are doing the same? Trust the Holy Spirit to convict us of any sin, which is what we are doing.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

If romantic fantasies about someone other than your spouse are okay, then spearfishing, car washing, mud wrestling and hot tub fantasies are all fair game.

Again, you are blurring the line between “romantic” and “sexual”. You continue to equate the two, and presumptuously accuse anyone who sees a difference of being “subjective” and arbitrary.

I don’t know if there’s any point to continuing this debate with you because you really aren’t interested in one, are you? No, you’re convinced that you are the font of “objectivity”, that everything you state is objective fact (including your contention that at age 18, a teenager’s innocent crush magically turns into an occasion for lust and sin), and that anyone who disagrees with you is making “subjective”, arbitrary rationalizations to excuse sin.

I can see you won’t be satisfied until me, Cat, and others, break down in shame and guilt, confess “Yes we are guilty, we are all lustful sinners, we admit we were just rationalizing our adulterous, sinful actions”, and deny the evidence from our own life experiences and those of others. No, all people are exactly the same when it comes to susceptibility to sexual sin.

Well, don’t hold your breath waiting for me to do that.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I think you are deliberately looking for a way to label wholesome fantasies, wistful dreams, and innocent wishes as dirty and sinful practices. I’m not sure why you are doing this.

Considering the plethora of unsavory weirdoes who seem to live in your area, perhaps you have simply never met anyone who has a crush on a celebrity and is totally without lust or any tendency to sin.

Why not do as the Bible says, and dwell on what it true, honorable, right, pure, lovely, and of good repute, and assume that other Christians are doing the same? Trust the Holy Spirit to convict us of any sin, which is what we are doing.

I’m not convinced that romantic fantasies about someone other than my spouse are wholesome, innocent and harmless. There’s a good deal of disagreement about whether the exact same fantasies about a porn star, stripper, teenage babysitter or coworker can be harmless, which indicates to me that there is at least some agreement about extra-marital fantasies being inappropriate. The arguments against the crushes I’ve proposed have all boiled down to, “I don’t approve of them, therefore they’re wrong; although, I do approve of my crush, therefore it’s a good thing.” If I would apply that same argument to abortion, contraception, porn, adultery or anything else, you’d say I didn’t have anything resembling a valid argument. So how is it a valid argument in this instance?

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Again, you are blurring the line between “romantic” and “sexual”. You continue to equate the two, and presumptuously accuse anyone who sees a difference of being “subjective” and arbitrary.

I don’t know if there’s any point to continuing this debate with you because you really aren’t interested in one, are you? No, you’re convinced that you are the font of “objectivity”, that everything you state is objective fact (including your contention that at age 18, a teenager’s innocent crush magically turns into an occasion for lust and sin), and that anyone who disagrees with you is making “subjective”, arbitrary rationalizations to excuse sin.

I can see you won’t be satisfied until me, Cat, and others, break down in shame and guilt, confess “Yes we are guilty, we are all lustful sinners, we admit we were just rationalizing our adulterous, sinful actions”, and deny the evidence from our own life experiences and those of others. No, all people are exactly the same when it comes to susceptibility to sexual sin.

Well, don’t hold your breath waiting for me to do that.

I never mentioned anything sexual in those fantasies. But since romantic fantasies are fair game within the bounds of a crush, then shouldn’t everyone’s idea of romance be included? And I never said that 18 was a magic number. You insisted on a hard, definitive boundary. I said, “18 for the sake of argument, give or take depending on the personality of the individual.”

When I started this thread I posed what I thought was a perfectly reasonable question. The answers I’ve gotten have all been subjective appeals based on what pleases individuals and possibly their spouses, or claims that girls will be girls while men need to deny their nature. The fact that those in favor of crushes and extra-martial fantasies have yet to provide any objective, rational reasons why they’re okay, or why their crushes are okay and my rhetorical crushes aren’t, strikes me as far more of an argument against them than for them. If there was nothing wrong with them then you would have no problem telling me that it’s okay for me to fantasize about the little cheerleader across the street and that my wife has a screw loose if she objects. But everyone can see that that’s utterly wrong. However, if I substitute a celebrity you approve of, then those fantasies somehow change from a mess of creepy filth to wholesome and marriage-affirming acts of love. Does that really add up for you?

 

[ToeInTheWater]

And if those are fair game, then relatively speaking, there’s no valid, objective reason that I can’t bargain things up to something even racier, as long as I say that there’s no lust involved, or claim that it brings me closer to my wife.

Last I checked, “racy” in this context refers to sexiness. Of course you know this. And besides, why is your contention that taking a walk on the beach with a celebrity is equivalent to wresting in the mud with them, anymore “objective” than another poster’s contention that they are NOT equivalent?

Also, don’t think I didn’t notice the subtle insinuation that the hypothetical you will “SAY there’s no lust involved” (insinuating the person SAYS this but is lying) and “CLAIM that it brings me closer to my wife” (again, insinuating the person CLAIMS this but doesn’t really believe it).

You know what really annoys me? Your constant uncharitable assumptions that the people who disagree with you aren’t debating in good faith. It reminds me of political debates where people essentially argue, “My position on this issue so obviously true, there’s no way anyone can truly disagree with me, unless they have some Hidden Agenda”.

I really should take a break from this topic, but unfortunately I have a feeling I’ll wind up dragged back into it at some point.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Last I checked, “racy” in this context refers to sexiness. Of course you know this. And besides, why is your contention that taking a walk on the beach with a celebrity is equivalent to wresting in the mud with them, anymore “objective” than another poster’s contention that they are NOT equivalent?

If I take a walk on the beach, a moonlit stroll, or enjoy a long, sumptuous lunch at a tiny cafe with a woman I idealize who’s not my wife, do you think she’ll mind?

 

[ToeInTheWater]

If I take a walk on the beach, a moonlit stroll, or enjoy a long, sumptuous lunch at a tiny cafe with a woman I idealize who’s not my wife, do you think she’ll mind?

From what you’ve mentioned about your wife, yes. And of course, I’m sure you’d mind if she did the same with a man. (BTW, don’t accuse me of somehow arguing these activities are okay for a wife but not a husband.) But (here I go again with a subjective, arbitrary distinction), don’t you think there’s a difference between actually DOING these things and just THINKING about them? No one on this topic has endorsed anyone actually going on a date, romantic stroll, etc. with a celebrity crush or making any serious efforts to do so.

And before you refer to Matthew 5:28 again, I’m also pretty sure that my parents would object strongly if, say, I rode off on a motorcycle, or hiked the Alps all by myself, or, heck, even went to a deserted beach at sunset to swim without a “buddy” to make sure I’m safe. I have a feeling the kind of men I’d prefer to marry/date would also object. But I doubt they’d have any objection to me just THINKING or even gasp fantasizing about doing all of the above.

BTW, I don’t even have a dog in this fight so to speak because I’m not married, and the last time I had any celebrity crushes, I was a teenager. (And I have received no campaign contributions from those who do.) I just don’t feel comfortable labeling (or even insinuating) that Cat and her husband are basically the equivalent of sinful swingers, which is the impression I get from you.

And on that note, this will be my last post on this topic, at least for today.

 

[WildCatholic]

I think past a certain age, celebrity crushes are kind of stupid. I’m 25 now and while I certainly think that certain celebrities or characters are attractive and might be nice to hang out with or have qualities i like (for me it’s Pam from the Office lol) I think that the whole Idea of lusting after someone is adultery. Even in teens its dangerous. Also it can be idolatry because what we see is just a perfect well maintained image that is slanted towards perfection which doest exist.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

From what you’ve mentioned about your wife, yes. And of course, I’m sure you’d mind if she did the same with a man. (BTW, don’t accuse me of somehow arguing these activities are okay for a wife but not a husband.) But (here I go again with a subjective, arbitrary distinction), don’t you think there’s a difference between actually DOING these things and just THINKING about them? No one on this topic has endorsed anyone actually going on a date, romantic stroll, etc. with a celebrity crush or making any serious efforts to do so.

There’s absolutely a difference between doing something and fantasizing about it. But that doesn’t mean that fantasizing about something isn’t inappropriate. Let’s say I’ve had a crush on Meg Ryan for the last 25+ years. I have pictures of her on my fridge and near my computer. I watch Joe Vs. The Volcano at least once a week and every couple of days I tell my wife about all my various fantasies about Meg, from being trapped on a raft with her, to eating Hungarian chicken dishes in a candle lit restaurant with her, etc. My wife accepts my crush and there’s absolutely nothing about them that could possibly be deemed problematic based on the pro-crush comments in this thread. Then they hire a new girl at work. She looks exactly like Meg Ryan, circa 1990 and we share an office. Are my fantasies still okay?

 

[Cat]

There’s absolutely a difference between doing something and fantasizing about it. But that doesn’t mean that fantasizing about something isn’t inappropriate. Let’s say I’ve had a crush on Meg Ryan for the last 25+ years. I have pictures of her on my fridge and near my computer. I watch Joe Vs. The Volcano at least once a week and every couple of days I tell my wife about all my various fantasies about Meg, from being trapped on a raft with her, to eating Hungarian chicken dishes in a candle lit restaurant with her, etc. My wife accepts my crush and there’s absolutely nothing about them that could possibly be deemed problematic based on the pro-crush comments in this thread. Then they hire a new girl at work. She looks exactly like Meg Ryan, circa 1990 and we share an office. Are my fantasies still okay?

You’re speculating wildly.

What exactly do you think I DO when I “fantasize” about my crush? Do you think I enter a dark room, lie down, and spend a half hour devising a “scenario” with my crush?

No. That’s NOT what I do at all! I see him on TV and think, “Wow, I wish I could meet him.”

That’s pretty much it.

When I was a little girl, I would imagine my “crush” meeting me and falling in love with me and doing all kinds of “girly” things with me. I didn’t even know what sex was until I was about 15 years old, so I didn’t “lust” after my crush. I was a little girl dreaming dreams of what it would be like to be “in love”. It was sweet and totally, completely innocent.

Thousands of little girls and young teenagers and even older teenagers do exactly the same thing. YOUR DAUGHTERS will, in all likelihood, develop a crush on an actor, a singer, a dancer, an athlete, a fictional character, or perhaps on a celebrity who isn’t involved with the arts, but somehow manages to break into the media and become famous (e.g., a business entrepreneur, a scientist, etc.).

You will see for yourself that their crushes, although INTENSE and highly emotional, are not evil or lustful or sinful. To adults, they seem silly, but woe unto you if you belittle your daughters’ crushes and label their sweet fantasies as “lustful.” That would be a major daddy mistake that will hurt them greatly.

I’m guessing that your wife probably has a crush on a celeb, but doesn’t share it with you because she knows it would hurt you. It’s a rare woman who doesn’t have some kind of crush on a man (or woman). I’ve mentioned my dear mother (R.I.P.) who had crushes right up until the very end of her life (she was invalid for many years with severe rheumatoid arthritis).

Don’t ask your wife about it. Don’t make her lie to you. And I could be wrong about this. A few posters on this thread have chimed in and stated that adult crushes are kind of stupid, and they’re right. We all know that we will never, ever meet our crushes and fall in love and ride on the beach (I don’t even ride horses). We KNOW that.

You want “objective” arguments. There AREN’T any because we’re talking about emotions, which are not “objective.”

Think about how many people you know who have fallen in love with and either married or moved in with someone that they are totally, completely unsuited for, and yet it happens anyway.

How many people do you know who say, “When I first met him, I didn’t even like him. We had nothing in common! But as we started getting to know each other, my heart just seemed to beat faster, and before I knew it, we were head over heels in love!”

A lot of people who say things like this are dear senior citizens who have been married for over 50 years, and they make cute little speeches like this at their Golden Anniversary Celebrations.

What would have happened had they tried to be “objective” about their emotions? In all likelihood, they would have walked away from the person that they were attracted to because of “logic.” “He’s not right for me, so I’m going to avoid him.”

Thankfully, they chose to go with their illogical, subjective FEELINGS rather than try to be “objective.”

Love and romance are NOT objective and never will be. Why did I “fall in love” with Jonathan Frid/Barnbas Collins when I was 12 (along with thousands of other little girls, teenagers, and grown women and men!), and why did other girls my age think he was “icky?” Why was I never interested in Davy Jones (mentioned earlier in this thread), while many of my friends thought he was “dreamy” and never missed the Monkees and covered their bedroom walls with his “pics?”

You can’t talk about “objectivity” when it comes to the emotions. Emotions happen against all logic. The best we can do is keep them pure and innocent, and not allow our hearts to lead us into lust, violence, darkness (Satanic practices, the occult, etc.). We need to stay in the light, and our “emotions” need to be clean enough that we are not ashamed of them before God, our spouses, or any other human being.

I often see Catholics carrying around a boatload of false guilt and shame over “imagined” sins. Perhaps that’s what’s at the root of all this debate?

By the way, my husband DOES take long walks and drives with women other than me, and he DOES go to long dinners with them. He’s an ice dancer, and he does all this with his ice dancing partner, who is also happily married to a delightful man.

They take walks because they are waiting for their competition time, and need to do something to pass the time. Usually they take these walks in local tourist attractions in the cities where their competitions are held. They go out to eat because they have to eat somewhere, and they may as well go out to eat together (or with lots of other ice skaters) instead of eating alone.

I have absolutely no objection to any of this. I KNOW that my husband’s heart is with me, not her or any other beautiful ice dancer that he meets and takes walks with and goes out to dinner with.

 

[Cat]

I did do a short search online for articles about celebrity crushes.

There are some good articles about teenaged crushes, which generally are very positive about the value of a celeb crush for teens.

Not so much about adult crushes, but here’s one article I found: smh.com.au/lifestyle/life/can-a-crush-be-good-for-you-20111121-1nqld.html

The article states that adult celebrity crushes are good because they allow you to explore life options that you didn’t choose. I think that’s a very valuable practice–a lot of men and women go through times of dissatisfaction or even doubt about their lives, and having a celebrity crush allows them to think through what life would have been like if they had followed a different path. Usually the adult ends up recognizing just how wonderful their life is, in spite of endless diapers, debt, or whatever else is causing the dissatisfaction.

Fantasies can really help adults to affirm their life choices. My younger daughter and I attended the musical *Pippin *when we were in New York City last summer. Afterwards, my younger daughter told me that the musical really helped her realize that she had a very happy life! She confided that she was often a little jealous of her older sister who is single, works in theater, and lives in NYC (it’s every girl’s fantasy–remember the show That Girl?!). But in the musical Pippin, the lead character realizes that his best life option is to marry the woman he loves and be a father to her child.

That “fantasy” (the story of Pippin) was what helped my younger daughter recognize that she wouldn’t really want to be a theater pro and live in the Big City. She truly loves her husband, living in a house, fixing dinner, working at a good job, doing yardwork on weekends, coaching skating, etc.

In the same way, when we have a celebrity crush, we fantasize about what our lives would be like if we had met and fallen in love with that man instead of our husband, and in the process of this fantasizing, we usually come to realize that yes, we DID make the right choices and we really ARE in total love with our husbands and we really ENJOY our real lives and wouldn’t want them to change.

In my case, it’s a no brainer. As much as I enjoy Robert Patrick’s work on television and in the movies, I would never want to be with him! He smokes cigars and he rides motorcycles, and his favorite music appears to be loud rock! I don’t think any of these things are wrong, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be around it all the time! And besides, he’s into eating healthily, and I love chowing down on ice cream, Chips and Dips, and big greasy pizzas with my husband!

In fact, I would never want to be involved with a celebrity because I wouldn’t want to feel obligated to be skinny!

Again, there are always exceptions. There are women who develop a celebrity crush, fantasize, and end up leaving their husbands and moving to Hollywood. There are also people who develop a celebrity crush, and allow their fantasies to get out of hand to the point where they begin to stalk their celebrity. Both of these are unhealthy manifestations of a crush, and I think any of us could fall into this. But I also think that most of us with healthy minds won’t go down these routes. If someone senses that they are in danger of this, then it would be most wise to avoid celebrity crushes. Perhaps that’s the situation with Gordon Sims.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I think there’s a big difference between thinking you’d like to meet someone and fantasizing about walks on the beach, romantic dinners and marrying them. There are plenty of celebrities I’d like to meet, some of which I eventually did, but none that I fantasize about marrying, etc.

I agree that emotions, urges and instincts are subjective. However, I believe the Church is quite clear about the need for people to be able to rise above their emotions and instincts. The question that I believe needs an objective answer is whether it’s appropriate to crush on and fantasize about someone other than your spouse. The answers I keep getting are that it’s okay as long as you do it my way, about people I approve of, or if you’re a woman. Those are all completely invalid, bogus excuses. I can rationalize my behavior all I want and blame it on the fact that it makes me feel good or because I’m a man. That doesn’t make my behavior right. On the contrary, pretty much every situation I’ve brought up, even the ones that are word for word identical to the examples you give with just the object of the crush being different, have been shot down as inappropriate.

By the reasoning supplied in this thread, if I have a crush on the teenage babysitter, it’s wrong. However, if she goes on American Idol and moves to Hollywood, it’s okay, But if she then abandons the music industry for porn, we’re back to it being wrong again. I think it’s wrong from beginning to end, but that somehow makes me an unrealistic extremist. So I’ll ask again, can you give me any sort of objective answer about why your variety of crush is okay but mine are all wrong? There truly aren’t any inherent differences between them.

As far as my wife and all the speculation about us goes, when we were at the dinner where the initial discussion took place she was just as uncomfortable and disapproving as I was. When we got in the car, her exact words were, “That’s gross.” When I asked her how she felt about it she said she thought it was wrong for a adult, especially a married one to act that way then jokingly implied bodily harm if I’d ever tell her I was fantasizing about another woman. There are plenty of celebrities she likes, including some she finds attractive. But just like me, any fantasies she entertains–whether walks on the beach, moonlit dinners or something else–are about her spouse. What a sick, twisted person she is.

 

[Cat]

I think there’s a big difference between thinking you’d like to meet someone and fantasizing about walks on the beach, romantic dinners and marrying them. There are plenty of celebrities I’d like to meet, some of which I eventually did, but none that I fantasize about marrying, etc.

I agree that emotions, urges and instincts are subjective. However, I believe the Church is quite clear about the need for people to be able to rise above their emotions and instincts. The question that I believe needs an objective answer is whether it’s appropriate to crush on and fantasize about someone other than your spouse.

There is no objective answer because there are too many variations. If you cannot see the difference between crushing on a babysitter, who is a real person in your area, and crushing on a movie star who is absolutely unavailable, then…well, I don’t know what to tell you except that you should absolutely avoid crushes since you can’t see the difference between “real” and “imaginary.”

The only answer that I and others can give you is that a crush on an unattainable celebrity is OK for MOST people. A crush on a person who is attainable is not OK for married people because it could develop and eventually destroy the marriage.

The answers I keep getting are that it’s okay as long as you do it my way, about people I approve of, or if you’re a woman. Those are all completely invalid, bogus excuses. I can rationalize my behavior all I want and blame it on the fact that it makes me feel good or because I’m a man. That doesn’t make my behavior right. On the contrary, pretty much every situation I’ve brought up, even the ones that are word for word identical to the examples you give with just the object of the crush being different, have been shot down as inappropriate.

I’m not the only one who keeps shooting down your examples. Has it occurred to you that perhaps we are right and you aren’t? Sometimes numbers do mean something.

The difference is that most of the examples you give are real people in your neighborhood who are attainable if you make the effort. Our examples are real people (or sometimes fictional characters) who are absolutely unattainable unless you put forth extraordinary effort and probably a lot of money to travel long distances and stay in expensive places–not an option for most people.

By the reasoning supplied in this thread, if I have a crush on the teenage babysitter, it’s wrong. However, if she goes on American Idol and moves to Hollywood, it’s okay, But if she then abandons the music industry for porn, we’re back to it being wrong again. I think it’s wrong from beginning to end, but that somehow makes me an unrealistic extremist. So I’ll ask again, can you give me any sort of objective answer about why your variety of crush is okay but mine are all wrong? There truly aren’t any inherent differences between them.

The objective answer is the one we keep giving–your examples are real people in your neighborhood that you can actually go after and make things happen.

The other objective answer is that porn is always wrong for multiple reasons, and to crush on a porn star is to support that evil industry.

As far as my wife and all the speculation about us goes, when we were at the dinner where the initial discussion took place she was just as uncomfortable and disapproving as I was. When we got in the car, her exact words were, “That’s gross.” When I asked her how she felt about it she said she thought it was wrong for a adult, especially a married one to act that way then jokingly implied bodily harm if I’d ever tell her I was fantasizing about another woman. There are plenty of celebrities she likes, including some she finds attractive. But just like me, any fantasies she entertains–whether walks on the beach, moonlit dinners or something else–are about her spouse. What a sick, twisted person she is.

You are fortunate to have found each other, just as the rest of us are happy.

Gordon Sims, sometimes there is no cut-and-dried answer as to whether something is “right” or “wrong.” A crush can start off innocent and go very wrong. Some people should avoid fantasies of any kind, while others can indulge with no ill effects (e.g., authors).

I suggest that you consider stopping trying to find “objective answers” to questiosn about practices that you personally aren’t comfortable with.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

There is no objective answer because there are too many variations. If you cannot see the difference between crushing on a babysitter, who is a real person in your area, and crushing on a movie star who is absolutely unavailable, then…well, I don’t know what to tell you except that you should absolutely avoid crushes since you can’t see the difference between “real” and “imaginary.”

The only answer that I and others can give you is that a crush on an unattainable celebrity is OK for MOST people. A crush on a person who is attainable is not OK for married people because it could develop and eventually destroy the marriage.

I’m not the only one who keeps shooting down your examples. Has it occurred to you that perhaps we are right and you aren’t? Sometimes numbers do mean something.

The difference is that most of the examples you give are real people in your neighborhood who are attainable if you make the effort. Our examples are real people (or sometimes fictional characters) who are absolutely unattainable unless you put forth extraordinary effort and probably a lot of money to travel long distances and stay in expensive places–not an option for most people.

The objective answer is the one we keep giving–your examples are real people in your neighborhood that you can actually go after and make things happen.

The other objective answer is that porn is always wrong for multiple reasons, and to crush on a porn star is to support that evil industry.

You are fortunate to have found each other, just as the rest of us are happy.

Gordon Sims, sometimes there is no cut-and-dried answer as to whether something is “right” or “wrong.” A crush can start off innocent and go very wrong. Some people should avoid fantasies of any kind, while others can indulge with no ill effects (e.g., authors).

I suggest that you consider stopping trying to find “objective answers” to questiosn about practices that you personally aren’t comfortable with.

In every example you and others have given, you are crushing on and fantasizing about someone who isn’t your spouse, In each of my examples, I’m crushing on and fantasizing about someone who isn’t my spouse. We’re all replacing our spouse with someone else and focusing the sort of attention on them that should only be reserved for our spouse, which apparently can include going so far as fantasizing about marrying your crush instead of your spouse. I still don’t see how distance or occupation is such a consequential factor that it means the difference between your fantasies being okay and mine being wrong. As far as the porn star goes, over and over again I’ve pointed out that the one I’ve mentioned the most is one that you could have been overexposed to without ever having seen anything other than her school picture or her dressed up in interviews. Fantasizing about her in no way supports the porn industry. Yet she’s somehow unworthy of a crush and makes any crush on my part wrong, despite how unattainable she is.

I personally believe that fantasizing about someone who isn’t your spouse is inappropriate and disrespectful, if not fully sinful. Whether I’m fantasizing about the babysitter, porn star, coworker, actor or UPS driver is irrelevant; no matter who it is, it’s not my spouse. I’m still baffled at the notion that, from a Catholic perspective, I’m being told that my take on it is not just wrong but apparently deeply disordered, and that entertaining romantic fantasies (to the point of marriage) about someone other than your spouse is not just in line with Catholic teaching but should be viewed as a marriage enhancing activity.

 

[Midwest88]

I’m still baffled at the notion that, from a Catholic perspective, I’m being told that my take on it is not just wrong but apparently deeply disordered, and that entertaining romantic fantasies (to the point of marriage) about someone other than your spouse is not just in line with Catholic teaching but should be viewed as a marriage enhancing activity.

There are many baffling things I read here on CAF by practicing Catholics and think “Wait, you’re a practicing Catholic? Not fallen. Not cultural, but practicing yet you support/allow [insert some questionable moral action]?” And these aren’t newbies to the faith as well. Befuddled I am.