Celibacy and Marriage: Is one really better than the other?

[MysticMissMisty]

Protestants also hold to a hierarchy of goods as well. This time it’s reversed. Marriage being the highest ideal for any given Christian with celibacy being lesser. Not necessarily sinful, but far from ideal.

I must note that I myself never made such a claim. As my header indicates, I am really a bit in (potentially) transitional phase. I can see the good in either state, to be frank.

I think many Catholics must realize that Protestantism is far more diverse in its understanding of doctrine than they might think, both in terms of denominations and in terms of even individual conviction.

And, as to all the other issues I raised in that last post…?

 

[Sarcelle]

I must note that I myself never made such a claim. As my header indicates, I am really a bit in (potentially) transitional phase. I can see the good in either state, to be frank.

I think many Catholics must realize that Protestantism is far more diverse in its understanding of doctrine than they might think, both in terms of denominations and in terms of even individual conviction.

And, as to all the other issues I raised in that last post…?

As for your other issues… Let me make a stab at it

Celibacy points or hints at the type of life we will have in heaven where none will marry and everyone will live in total dedication to God. In other words, celibacy, if lived with total dedication to God mirrors a life in heaven, which is a superior life to the life we have here on earth.

 

[MysticMissMisty]

As for your other issues… Let me make a stab at it

Celibacy points or hints at the type of life we will have in heaven where none will marry and everyone will live in total dedication to God. In other words, celibacy, if lived with total dedication to God mirrors a life in heaven, which is a superior life to the life we have here on earth.

But, is not total dedication to God essentially living in love for God and one another? Can we not do that equally well in marriage here?

 

[Bookcat]

Read the words of Jesus on the matter and the words of Saint Paul…

Something that has often been missed in Protestant readings. I still remember being at a Protestant talk where the person noted this to his Protestant listeners…noting that the Catholics were right on this…

And remember it comes down also to what is a persons “personal vocation”.

Both are good and Holy.

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:
**
Virginity for the sake of the Kingdom**

1618 Christ is the center of all Christian life. The bond with him takes precedence over all other bonds, familial or social.113 From the very beginning of the Church there have been men and women who have renounced the great good of marriage to follow the Lamb wherever he goes, to be intent on the things of the Lord, to seek to please him, and to go out to meet the Bridegroom who is coming.114 Christ himself has invited certain persons to follow him in this way of life, of which he remains the model:

"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it."115

1619 Virginity for the sake of the kingdom of heaven is an unfolding of baptismal grace, a powerful sign of the supremacy of the bond with Christ and of the ardent expectation of his return, a sign which also recalls that marriage is a reality of this present age which is passing away.116

1620 Both the sacrament of Matrimony and virginity for the Kingdom of God come from the Lord himself. It is he who gives them meaning and grants them the grace which is indispensable for living them out in conformity with his will. Esteem of virginity for the sake of the kingdom and the Christian understanding of marriage are inseparable, and they reinforce each other:

Whoever denigrates marriage also diminishes the glory of virginity. Whoever praises it makes virginity more admirable and resplendent. What appears good only in comparison with evil would not be truly good. The most excellent good is something even better than what is admitted to be good.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm#1620

114 Cf. Rev 14:4; 1 Cor 7:32; Mt 2:56.
115 Mt 19:12.
116 Cf. Mk 12:25; 1 Cor 7:31.
117 Cf. Mt 19:3-12.
118 Cf. LG 42; PC 12; OT 10.
119 St. John Chrysostom, De virg. 10,1G 48,540; Cf. John Paul II, FC 16.

 

[marymary1975]

The excessive praise for the family has had a role in the vocations crisis of today. Celibacy is higher because it allows one to more fully focus on God and others.

Every baptised person who dies in a state of grace will get to Heaven eventually. I wonder how much the prayers for them from their children helped them become saints faster.

Your last paragraph is an interesting p9int I never thought about. I am sure that the prayers of many saints when they were alive for their deceased parents helped them to arrive to heaven.

H
However, I personally disagree that excessive praise for the family has caused the vocation crisis. I think is the sexualized culture we live in and the sexual revolution what has caused the vocation crisis

 

[Sarcelle]

But, is not total dedication to God essentially living in love for God and one another? Can we not do that equally well in marriage here?

Total dedication to God is good both in the celibate and the married state.

However, those in the celibate state mirror how life will be in heaven.

 

[MysticMissMisty]

Total dedication to God is good both in the celibate and the married state.

However, those in the celibate state mirror how life will be in heaven.

All right, several people have pointed out the fact that celibacy mirrors heave and, thus, that it is better.

Why?

Is it because heaven is the ideal? If so, then, celibacy is the ideal and all Christians should pursue it…

 

[Sarcelle]

All right, several people have pointed out the fact that celibacy mirrors heave and, thus, that it is better.

Why?

Is it because heaven is the ideal? If so, then, celibacy is the ideal and all Christians should pursue it…

May I direct you to the Bible where Jesus says that those who can live in a celibate state to be celibate but it is not given to all. Paul also says those who burn should get married.

There is also Revelation which tells of 144,000 who bear the mark of the Lamb and who have never known women.

 

[MysticMissMisty]

May I direct you to the Bible where Jesus says that those who can live in a celibate state to be celibate but it is not given to all. Paul also says those who burn should get married.

There is also Revelation which tells of 144,000 who bear the mark of the Lamb and who have never known women.

You still have not answered the “why” part ofthis question. Why is celibacy the norm in heaven? If it is the norm in heaven, why is it not the ideal state to which all Christians should theoretically strive? I mean, is Christ/Paul truly saying in these passages that some people are so unabel to control their impulses that they must marry as a kind of concession? So, then, marriage is more to prevent men from sinning in their sexual lusts than to fulfill something good that God has created in marriage.

Also, are you truly saying that if I can handle celibacy/virginity, I should stay unmarried and that only if I “burn” should I marry? So, then, only if I absolutely cannot “survive” without being married should I marry? Even if I can “survive” but would love to have a life partner and children, I am still required to remain unmarried? (All right, yes, this is a bit OT and, if you and others wish to address it on the other thread I just started on this particular angle of the matter, please feel free to do so.)

 

[Sarcelle]

You still have not answered the “why” part ofthis question. Why is celibacy the norm in heaven? If it is the norm in heaven, why is it not the ideal state to which all Christians should theoretically strive? I mean, is Christ/Paul truly saying in these passages that some people are so unabel to control their impulses that they must marry as a kind of concession? So, then, marriage is more to prevent men from sinning in their sexual lusts than to fulfill something good that God has created in marriage.

Also, are you truly saying that if I can handle celibacy/virginity, I should stay unmarried and that only if I “burn” should I marry? So, then, only if I absolutely cannot “survive” without being married should I marry? Even if I can “survive” but would love to have a life partner and children, I am still required to remain unmarried? (All right, yes, this is a bit OT and, if you and others wish to address it on the other thread I just started on this particular angle of the matter, please feel free to do so.)

Hmm, I thought that I answered your question.

I do not know why celibacy is the norm in heaven. All Jesus said that in Heaven, humans will be like the Angels in that they are neither given in marriage or get married. The Church as the people of God will be married to the Divine Bridegroom, Jesus. The marriages on earth should mirror the marriage of the Church to Jesus. Therefore you see the admonition of Paul on how husbands and wives are supposed to behave in marriage.

As for you getting married or not, it is up to you. The Church recognizes you as a human being with inherent worth and dignity, regardless of your state in life.

You are under no obligation to be celibate, even if you think you are called to it. It is your free will and choice. No one should say to you that you are living an inferior state of life if you put God in the center, married, lay single, or consecrated religious.

Contrast this to most Protestand denominations which pressures members to get married. Celibacy is considered unnatural. I have many single friends who are treated as second class citizens in their church. Some have even left Christianity altogether.

If you are still not satisfied with my answer you can ask the apologists on this forum.

 

[FFI_Griswold]

Ave Maria!

religious-vocation.com/ has a nice page entitled, “Is Celibacy A Higher Calling than Marriage?” It has quotes from Church documents, popes, saints, and Doctors of the Church.

pathsoflove.com/vocation.html has many good books and articles on the subject.

MysticMissMisty,

You asked why it is more like heaven. St. Alphonsus explains some of it in a subsection entitled, “The Religious State is like the Promised Land; it is Paradise on Earth”

“St. Bernard: “Is not that a holy state in which a man lives more purely, falls more rarely, rises more speedily, walks more cautiously, is bedewed with the waters of grace more frequently rests more securely, dies more confidently, is cleansed more quickly, and rewarded more abundantly?” Let us examine these advantages separately, and meditate on the great treasures which each of them contains.”

you can read it here. (I think this is actually an excerpt from his book, “True Spouse of Jesus Christ”.)

It’s all true. It’s also called the “angelic life”. In heaven the angels and saints see God face to face. In the Mass, it’s like you have one foot in heaven. We receive Holy Communion every day (which the angels can’t do). We live, work, sleep, sing, pray and sacrifice 50 ft from the Blessed Sacrament. If this isn’t reason enough, there are hundreds more.

Maybe you can ask St. Maria Goretti to help find the right text for you. Consecrate yourself to Our Lady and She will obtain the light you need. Ave Maria!

In the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary,

fra John Paul

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:
**
Virginity for the sake of the Kingdom**

1618 Christ is the center of all Christian life. The bond with him takes precedence over all other bonds, familial or social.113 From the very beginning of the Church there have been men and women who have renounced the great good of marriage to follow the Lamb wherever he goes, to be intent on the things of the Lord, to seek to please him, and to go out to meet the Bridegroom who is coming.114 Christ himself has invited certain persons to follow him in this way of life, of which he remains the model:

"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it."115

1619 Virginity for the sake of the kingdom of heaven is an unfolding of baptismal grace, a powerful sign of the supremacy of the bond with Christ and of the ardent expectation of his return, a sign which also recalls that marriage is a reality of this present age which is passing away.116

1620 Both the sacrament of Matrimony and virginity for the Kingdom of God come from the Lord himself. It is he who gives them meaning and grants them the grace which is indispensable for living them out in conformity with his will. Esteem of virginity for the sake of the kingdom and the Christian understanding of marriage are inseparable, and they reinforce each other:

Whoever denigrates marriage also diminishes the glory of virginity. Whoever praises it makes virginity more admirable and resplendent. What appears good only in comparison with evil would not be truly good. The most excellent good is something even better than what is admitted to be good.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm#1620

114 Cf. Rev 14:4; 1 Cor 7:32; Mt 2:56.
115 Mt 19:12.
116 Cf. Mk 12:25; 1 Cor 7:31.
117 Cf. Mt 19:3-12.
118 Cf. LG 42; PC 12; OT 10.
119 St. John Chrysostom, De virg. 10,1G 48,540; Cf. John Paul II, FC 16.

Read the whole

 

[BarbTh]

Read the whole

 

[Andre1000]

Marriage is useless, especially in the light of overpopulation and the fact that converts are most of the time better Christmas than born Catholics. Born Catholic are often giving the religion a bad name. This is way it was necessary for Jesus to make marriage a sacrament. Sacraments are here to fix something bad. Like confession for sins, baptism for original sin or confirmation for weakness and the sacrament of marriage for marriage. This is why tge are no sacraments for helping loving praying or heaven because good thinks are already good and so do not need a sacrament. Jesus didn’t create sacraments for honoring something only to fix some evil.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

All right, several people have pointed out the fact that celibacy mirrors heave and, thus, that it is better.

Why?

Is it because heaven is the ideal? If so, then, celibacy is the ideal and all Christians should pursue it…

Jack Sprat could eat no fat
His wife could eat no lean
And so betwixt them both, you see,
They licked the platter clean!

Have you got a false ideal of “ideal”?

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

You still have not answered the “why” part ofthis question. Why is celibacy the norm in heaven? If it is the norm in heaven, why is it not the ideal state to which all Christians should theoretically strive? I mean, is Christ/Paul truly saying in these passages that some people are so unabel to control their impulses that they must marry as a kind of concession? So, then, marriage is more to prevent men from sinning in their sexual lusts than to fulfill something good that God has created in marriage.

Also, are you truly saying that if I can handle celibacy/virginity, I should stay unmarried and that only if I “burn” should I marry? So, then, only if I absolutely cannot “survive” without being married should I marry? Even if I can “survive” but would love to have a life partner and children, I am still required to remain unmarried? (All right, yes, this is a bit OT and, if you and others wish to address it on the other thread I just started on this particular angle of the matter, please feel free to do so.)

I think it’s a bit of all those things, and not too much of any one to the exclusion of all others.

This is probably an area where God is not presenting us with a sole and only narrow answer.

I like Phil’s answer comparing macroeconomics and microeconomics. If you take care of the pounds the pennies will take care of themselves AND vice versa. Good job there’s some people doing each!

Faced with a dilemma in a shop, whether to purchase the “superior” or the “better” that sounds like my dream win-win situation to me!

Like Marco Polo says:

quote

(There is also a school of thought that God may move a soul to the understanding that he/she will please God by choosing either path … )

unquote

we can like something for ourselves and look into why we like it.

I think the vast majority of the replies in this thread confirm this interpretation rather than conflicting with it.

Not being a Greek specialist I am unable to comment on any nuances between the original words where translations state “superior” vs “better”.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

“There are many gifts, and only one Giver”.

Is a foot supposed to say, “as long as we don’t start getting any eyes here!!!”

As you embrace the Catholic faith more rest assured that all of us are bound to accept all of Holy Scriptures!!!

Meantime as singleness is the stepping stone to all the vocations (including single Christian layperson!), it’s not as if we have to take a specific turning at any particular time of life.

 

[bobballen_18]

All right, several people have pointed out the fact that celibacy mirrors heave and, thus, that it is better.

Why?

Is it because heaven is the ideal? If so, then, celibacy is the ideal and all Christians should pursue it…

I don’t have any quotes from documents or anything, so I hope I’m not saying anything heretical or something…lol. But I think this has to do with the question of the purpose of marriage. What is marriage for? Put simply, isn’t it to raise children and to get each other to Heaven through the sacramental graces bestowed on a marriage? If I am correct that this is the purpose of marriage, then this tells us why there is no marriage in Heaven. There is no marriage in Heaven because we no longer need to be perfected and we no longer are restricted by the fallen Human Nature and therefore are capable of true, unhindered love. We are not capable of this on this Earth, because we live in a fallen world. This, along with the obvious fact that there needs to be propagation of the human species, is why most people are called to marriage.

But what I mentioned above - we don’t need the sacramental graces of marriage once in Heaven - is important. This is why celibacy mirrors Heaven more than marriage, and this is why celibacy is higher/better than marriage; this is why celibacy is the “norm” (it’s not only the norm, it’s the only state) in Heaven. The reason why I believe celibacy can be called “better” is rather simple, and I already touched on it - nothing is perfect here on Earth, there is only true perfection in Heaven. If celibacy is the state of all in Heaven, this is why celibacy is “better” than marriage. The state of all in Heaven is the state of true perfection; the more something on this Earth mirrors the state in which one will be in Heaven, the closer it is to being perfect. To me, that is what “better” means - it is more perfect.

I think there’s a difference in saying “one can only be truly holy on Earth in the celibate state” (that is incorrect), and saying “one more fully mirrors the State in which we will be in Heaven, by being celibate on Earth” (a true statement); one does not, in my opinion, imply the other.