Celibacy in marraige

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Since when has the local parish ever helped out a member in a situation such as this with insurance, house payment, car payment, etc.? No, the Church’s pastors are too busy fighting welfare reform and illegal immigration and promoting harmony among the world’s religions to do what the Gospel actually teaches. The interesting thing is that Jesus never commanded the Church or the State to set up social welfare agencies for unbelievers. The sign of of Christian was how you treated a believer. All of the Gospel passages that talk about feeding the poor, visiting the prisoner, etc. in Matthew are addressed to believers and are an expression of how they are to treat other believers.

I disagree with that as a general statement. The Catholic church I attend does a TON of things to help the poor, from food banks to clothing drives. I’m sure if you went to one of the priests and were in need, they would bend over backwards to make sure you were helped.
 
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byzmelkite:
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Christian4life:
Third, why isn’t your church helping out?? We are SUPPOSED to be a community who helps each other out, that’s the way it was intended in the Bible. If someone has plenty, they should be willing to share with those who don’t. I once went down to a church and asked them to pay for antibiotics for me when I was a poor college kid and had a sinus infection, and they did, no other questions asked. I found out I’d had walking pneumonia, not just a sinus infection, so a little humility goes a long way.

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Since when has the local parish ever helped out a member in a situation such as this with insurance, house payment, car payment, etc.? No, the Church’s pastors are too busy fighting welfare reform and illegal immigration and promoting harmony among the world’s religions to do what the Gospel actually teaches. The interesting thing is that Jesus never commanded the Church or the State to set up social welfare agencies for unbelievers. The sign of of Christian was how you treated a believer. All of the Gospel passages that talk about feeding the poor, visiting the prisoner, etc. in Matthew are addressed to believers and are an expression of how they are to treat other believers.
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Because human life has a value regardless of the state of someones soul. Otherwise they’d be no reason to try and convert anyone. Charity is a major part of a christian life, I’m not suggesting that it has to take a political form as in socialism or welfare, but just like your assertions about mans pre fall state, there is aboslutely no biblical evidence for this ie. that God only places a value on believers. The opposite maybe. More like your own particular holier than thou philosophy, in which you get to claim that everyones but your own views are fallen.
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byzmelkite:
The question is will I even be a Christian 2 weeks from now? Who knows? God, I suppose.
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the Christian God being a bit too liberal and everything, with all that campassion stuff, it’s for the weak.
 
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byzmelkite:
Also, with regard to foreplay. Foreplay is fine if it is done in limited amounts in order to facilitate success in carrying out reproductive functions. But outside of such intended acts, foreplay should be cut off and only nonsexual contact should be made. Also, it is dangerous to experiment with different sexual positions, lingerie, and other things that entice and arouse the passions. Finally, though certain things like oral sex are technically permissible within the context of legitimate foreplay, it is rather imprudent to actually engage in such things. It is best to minimize desire and passion as much as possible in order to maintain a prayerful attitude while procreating. This is also why it is not a good idea to have sexual relations the night before going to communion. It is too dangerous to risk the chance of lusting excessively and then making a bad communion. This is why Saturday nights should be off limits.
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I’m not even sure I should enter this conversation but I just couldn’t disagree more this post. Dangerous to experiment with different sexual positions & lingerie? I noticed on another post you referred to sex as disgusting. How can you call a gift from God disgusting? I find this attitude so sad. I feel the intimacy I share with my husband is beautiful thing. We enjoy each other, we have fun - it comes out of the natural expression of the love we share for each other. I don’t think God intended the marriage act to be a chore.

Does having our breakfast in bed, dinner out on the deck or a pic-nic in the park make us guilty of gluttony. Does it put us in danger of lusting after food? Why is being intimate in more than one standard position dangerous? That seems so bizarre to me.

***Catechism of the Catholic Church 2360 *Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament.

***CCC 2362 **“The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude.” Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure: *

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation
I’m not going to address the details of your post further but from reading some of your other posts I think you may suffer from scrupulosity. You seem to have a reoccuring theme in many of your posts -burning in hell. Please see link below, it may be helpful to you.

catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0012fea2.asp
 
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Doihavtasay:
I have been following this thread because we have had very little sex since the birth of our 7th child. We have always just let God decide and have never regreted that, but our last child has caused us to pause and think about things.

So yes… we are avoiding another baby at this time and prolly forever. Hoping menapause comes SOON!!!:dancing:
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God will lead you through your struggles…have faith. You must be a very “strong” and loving family. Follow the advice of others and seek help from your parish, whether it be financial or spiritual, don’t turn away from the help of the community.

Thank you for replying to the thread I started. Even though it has turned into a debate about whether you think a blw jb is sinful or not, I guess it makes for some good reading. My question to you, and forgive me if it gets to personal, but I am just trying to formulate my own decisions. Even through all of your struggles, would you say that not having sex has helped or hurt your relationship? Are you just as close to your husband now as you were when you first got married? 7 years is a long time, do you and your husband miss it? Have you grown spiritually together? How do you stay close?

My wife and I, as a couple (even though someone still says it is me holding out on my wife), hope that through prayers, our spiritual life will be able to overcome our sexual urges and we will grow together spiritually not sexually. Do you struggle with the thought of holding out as not doing God’s will? We do, and I have rationalized it (whether right or wrongly) that if God wants us to have more children, through our constant discrenment, he will (more or less) lead us to have sex, if through the will of the Holy Spirit, the sexual urges are to great and we have another baby, then we can say that it was Gods will, if that doesn’t happen then it was Gods will not to have another. Does that make any sense?

God Bless
 
QUOTE=Christian4life]Second, do you have health insurance? !
We sure do have health insurance! Though it might be better for us finacially NOT to. We struggled like crazy to make payments on a COBRA for all the kids, esp the youngest. No insurance company would take her on willingly. In fact corporations can refuse to hire dh because the group bears the cost of her high payments. The insurance company sure doesn’t take that hit on their own! We have been blessed to work for aompany privately owned, but now has been bought out. Since dh is high up, he already heard them asking about the person who has the really high insurance claim rate and whatt do they do??? His job his very unstable at the moment and they have pretty much told him he will be fired before Christmas. And yes, they can do this.
Even with great insurance, we can’t keep up with the bills. Every year we pay $1000 out of pocket for her annual echo and a percentage of every hospital stay, co-pays, regular meds ( she uses 6 prescription meds regulary and some every so often) not to mention some medical equipment for her asthma that our insurnce company doens’t cover, OTC drugs, special foods due to severe foold allegeries and other issues,toll payments to Chicago, gas money, parking… the list goes on and on and on and on and on… I need to make her a tee shirt that says " I cost more, but I’m worth it "😉 She also has Down Sydrome, so add to the medical list, special shoes, lots of educational and adaptive items, which I buy very little of and make most of my own, but some things she could really use like an augmentive communication device -they are between $200 and $500… oh ya… forgot about hearing tests and ear tubes…all have to be done at the big hospital due to her cardiac/airway status. A special bike she could actually pedal and such… but I don’t really complain much about those things, but they would make her life better.
There are NO organizations who help us because of or INCOME. Trust me, I have begged, cried , yelled, ask nice, searched. You have to be down right destitute in the state of IL to get ANY help at all. We qualify for a medical tax deduction and that’s it. They don’t look at our bills, just our income. They don’t consider the other 5 kids ( one is married and out of the house). They don’t consider we were just getting back on our feet after a job loss when she was born.

Third, why isn’t your church helping out?? .

Oh man… don’t get me started 😃 I am a re-vert just now beginning the process of coming back. As soon as she gets over her current cold, need to call and confirm a time to see our local priest. Have been going back and forth on e-mail. We have belonged to 2 prot churches since her birth and I am convinced Christians think of her as a curse not a blessing and that we are being punished. In Sunday School the kids all just stare at her, so I don’t take there anymore. She is treated much better at the public school where she is well loved and accepted. And she is VERY easy to love! Very outgoing and loves to talk to people. I have stopped looking to the church for any kind of help though. I mean we were foolish enough to trust God to have all these kids and now that we got ‘caught’ well we got what we deserved. Other people made better choices so they wouldn’t be in this position, so why would they ‘bail’ us out for making stupid choices??? 90% of kids with any disabiltiy are aborted… I wonder why???:rolleyes:

Now, I’m not convinced your problem is from too many kids.
Yes and no, if we didn’t all the expenses from the other kids it would be some better, though I admit still pretty rough. But the problem is the health care costs here.

Still, we can talk about how bad we have it, while we are sitting in our nice comfortable homes, with food to eat, and a place to pee.

yep…we have all adjusted and tighened the belt and the kids have done so with out complaint towards their sister which I think is pretty amazing! The most damage has come to their faith and how the church reacts, treats and accepts, or hasn’t, their sister. Sadly as I said the public school and secular world has been much accepting of her, which is weird considering the abortion rate, while the church has simply viewed her as a burden we must bear for our continued learning.

I guess the chruch hasn’t considered she is also here to THEM a lesson too 😃
 
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Since when has the local parish ever helped out a member in a situation such as this with insurance, house payment, car payment, etc.? No, the Church’s pastors are too busy fighting welfare reform and illegal immigration and promoting harmony among the world’s religions to do what the Gospel actually teaches. The interesting thing is that Jesus never commanded the Church or the State to set up social welfare agencies for unbelievers. The sign of of Christian was how you treated a believer. All of the Gospel passages that talk about feeding the poor, visiting the prisoner, etc. in Matthew are addressed to believers and are an expression of how they are to treat other believers.

Don’t fall into the trap of allowing the actions/behavior of others to affect your relationship to the Lord.
Whenever I start to really feel bitter I spend more time with the Lord. Over a year ago I started visiting the Eucharistic Chapel near by for a quiet place to pray while all the kids were in school and that time with the Lord helps remove all bitterness and malice.
It’s hard to feel unloved and bitter when contemplating Almighty God having been cruxified. No one has asked me to carry the sins of the world on my shoulders.

Don’t focus on what others are or are not doing. Focus on what God is calling YOU to do!
What have YOU personally done to change your parish’s thinking and policy? What have you done to help even ONE person in your parish on your own? You don’t need the Church to help another. In fact we are all called to help each other ON OUR OWN.

When I ever get too judgemental on what others are or are not doing, I simply have to ask myself what have I done to help someone else???
 
Write me an email explaining your daughter’s conditions and medical costs, and I will do some charity searching for you. I think if you go the government route you are doomed, but there are a lot of private organizations that I know of that I could at least give a try!

Don’t give up on the churches…some are going to be worse than others but they are God’s people and put there to do his work. I have noticed that in protestant churches they consider you irresponsible for having “too many” children, (My MIL, the preacher’s wife, is on the extreme end of that) but there are other churches who do not all feel that way. My local parish is one, so I know they exist, I have seen them do a ton of good deeds, and I’m not even Catholic yet!

We only have one daughter - and that’s not from lack of wanting, that’s just all God has decided to bless us with at this time as I have very low - almost no - fertility. And yet it’s a funny situation because, we were so worried about having a child at first, and then I got pregnant and it was no big deal! It was when we decided to give up and let God decide that we had our 13 month and counting “dry spell.” It was a very freeing thing and has helped our marriage considerably. So I don’t believe the hype that you have to control how many children you have, because God gives to some and not to others. Simply giving up control to God doesn’t mean you will necessarily have 15 kids, though a lot of people seem to think so. 1/3 of all U.S. couples have fertility problems. I’m going to the doctor to see what the heck is going on with me. My only prayer is that God won’t give us more than we can handle, so far that is not an issue.

In your case I would reccomend NFP, just because your family does not sound like it needs the stress of another child right now. (which is a good stress, but still stress) I wouldn’t worry about getting pregnant if you are doing it right. When you want to be particularly careful you just add on a few days of abstinence here and there, and a lot of self control, which you sound like you already have. What people don’t get is you literally cannot get pregnant after 3 days of high temps. It just doesn’t happen unless you are one of those RARE people who ovulates twice a month, but even that you can check for. You can get accurate ovulation predictor kits SO cheap on ebay.

I would be willing to help you out in any way that I can, whether it is financially, emotionally, or trying to find someone else to help. I would have to ask my husband but I feel sure he would help out as well.
 
. Does that make any sense?

God Bless

We are in a totally different place in life then you and your wife are. We have been married 26 years, and are 49 and 48 years old. We have been pg 9 times ( 2 miscarraiges) We have always trusted God to provide if He produces the child and He has, and continues to do so.

Honestly, I think you have things backwards. You are married, that means sex. It’s part of the ‘deal’. 🙂 You choose this vocation and that includes agreeing to have children and raising them to love the Lord. What other purpose IS there for marraige? Would a priest be doing God’s will if he refused parishners?? Do you think He is not going to help you with HIS children? He promised He would. You are placing too much value in tempory things such as money, while totally rejecting the one thing in this life you CAN ( God willing) take with you and will last for eternity-a soul! Why on earth would you place money above eternity?
Even though we are in a serious money crunch, it has taught me one thing- money is hard to make, easy to lose. duh… so what’s the point? You can spend a lot of time trying to aquire it, keep it etc and it can all be taken from you in SECONDS! And then all that time and effort was wasted. Finacial security is a mirage at best. Put your faith and effort in what is eternal.

You also have a skewed view of sex as being something ‘bad’ that you need to protect yourself from. There is nothing sinful about married sex. Do you think Adam and Eve avoided it? Do you think God thought it was something He needed to turn His eyes away from when they engaged in it?
No, of course not. It’s a BLESSING to married people. It’s a HOLY and SACRED act that can lead to the creation of new soul. You are taking part in the creative process that only God can start!! How awesome is that?? It’s an honor to participate and offer up your body to God for such a work. You are not going to grow spiritualy by avoiding what God Himself ordained as good. You are not really trusting God here, you avoiding trusting Him.
Instead of praying to avoid sexual passion, why not pray to enjoy the true union that only married people have the privalage to enjoy and to trust that God will provide what He gives?
This is as important a work as the mission feild, evangaliztion, church growth, the pastorate… all those. It’s a high calling to be a parent. The Church will dwindle and die if people don’t.
 
Got long winded and had to add part 2 :

So after all that how do I justify avoiding sex??? Good question and one I do struggle with, though over all given the current circumstances, I am at peace about. I think the season of babes is over for me.
Finacial reasons are not the only factor either. I have had trouble carrying babies and even Christine wanted to jump ship early on and so many of my pgs have been spent on my back. I could not do that for a future baby. I have to lift Christine, Ihave to take of her and it can be physically demanding. Both she and the unborn baby would be at risk for death or injury and I would feel REALLY, REALLY awful if I had to chose between caring for one or the other.

That was really the first factor for me, the money came later as bills mounted.

Has it made us closer??? In some ways yes, we talk more. ( a lot more talk and lot less ‘action’ ) In other ways, no. But we are getting older and better at delaying gratification so it’s not a big deal. We also still have sex when we really want to. Just careful about the timing and it’s a BIG EVENT. 🙂
So we are not totally abstaining, and I have to pray when we have sex for faith that all will be well in my giving myself over. Sometimes I don’t have that faith and turn down my dh which is a sin and I will need to confess it.

My dh is not Catholic. He is hard to explain and I won’t try. Even though he has always trusted the Lord in His choices on the number of the children, he doesn’t have a problem with some BC, such as barriers and ‘spilling’ is ok for him. I have never liked that and feel used when that happens. So we are sometimes at odds there, but we try to be understanding of each other. Sometimes he does it to ‘protect’ me and I guess God will take motives into consideration, but I try to avoid having him sin that way if I can at all help it. I don’t know what my responsibilty is in that area-I only have so much control as to what happens.

I don’t know if this helps. It’s a very complicated subject to be sure. I think much prayer and Bible study about the blessings of children , the faithulness of God and what is truly valuable would serve you both well, along with the realization that marraige and children are a NOBLE vocation. That sex is a gift and not something to be avoided, but to be enjoyed and used to bring you closer to the Lord.

I don’t regret any of my kids. 🙂 I have faith God will use all to His glory. I don’t have to undertand that, I just have to believe it. And THAT is true spritiual growth… to believe when you can’t quite ‘see’ it.
 
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Doihavtasay:
. Honestly, I think you have things backwards. You are married, that means sex. It’s part of the ‘deal’. 🙂 You choose this vocation and that includes agreeing to have children and raising them to love the Lord. What other purpose IS there for marraige? Would a priest be doing God’s will if he refused parishners??
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I did not choose this vocation, God lead me to it. And yes, He lead us to marriage to bring forth 4 beautiful children, that I am positive He has big plans for, but my wife and I feel that He is telling us, that’s enough, no more!. What about what God wants?

But from what I’ve read in everyones posts, God would never say that. I have a hard time believing that. From what everyone here says, you must keep having sex because you are married…that is our vocation. Everyones attitiude is that God expects us to keep having babies, because that goes hand in hand with the vocation we chose? Can’t God say that “I have blessed you enough, time to stop”? If we feel God is calling us to stop having babies, then how can we continue to have sex? Maybe you all might think we are twisted in the way we think, or that we are going against God’s design, but He has used us, He has blessed us, now it is time to move on to the next thing He has planned for us, whatever that may be.

Also, I do believe that sex is unitive and my wife and I love making love, but I do not buy into the thinking that the only way to be unitive in a marrage is to have sex. There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: Ecclesiastes 3:1. I feel that God is calling us to a deeper spirituality now. He is trying to get us to connect through prayer, not orgasam. Love is more than sex. Right? God is love and he created sex, but sex is not the only form of love. God did not create Adam and Eve for sole purpose of sex only, He created them to love each other and sex is just part of that love, but not the most important part. Sex is beautiful and is good, but it should not define a marriage and the love a husband and wife have for each other.
 
lost sheep:
I did not choose this vocation, God lead me to it. And yes, He lead us to marriage to bring forth 4 beautiful children, that I am positive He has big plans for, but my wife and I feel that He is telling us, that’s enough, no more!. What about what God wants?

If God doesn’t want you to have any more children- for sure- you are positive about that- then you could have sex all day, every day and you will never conceive. If God does want you to have children, then you could be ‘petting’ or using BC and still get pg. I am not trying to aruge that we have NO control, cause we all know God uses ordinary means, what I am trying to point out to you is that you seem to think that you have more power then God here, or maybe that God needs your help in His choice to not give you any more children. If God lead you to this vocation, then allow Him to see it through to it’s completion. Sex is a normal natural part of that part of that union. You should not be forcing yourself not to have any just because of the fear of children.

But from what I’ve read in everyones posts, God would never say that. No one ever said that God wouldn’t limit the number of children you or anyone else has. Ask an infertile couple if God can prevent pgs or has different limits in mind for each couple.I have a hard time believing that.
You seem to have a hard time believing God, period. ( I say this in a KIND way, we ALL have trouble at one time or another, I have already stated I have to pray for faith in this area too)
From what everyone here says, you must keep having sex because you are married…that is our vocation. Everyones attitiude is that God expects us to keep having babies, because that goes hand in hand with the vocation we chose? Can’t God say that “I have blessed you enough, time to stop”?

No one is saying that sex is to be a duty or a burden. If you both dislike it and find fulfilment as a couple in other ways, then that is up to you. But you have said you need to pray to avoid the natural passion God has given you for your wife and visa versa, that is where I think you are making an error. You are not trusting God to control the number of children, YOU want to control the number. If it’s God’s will for you only to have 4, then you won’t have anymore. He would not ask you to refrain to prevent them You don’t have any external reasons to avoid a pg, so how do figure God is telling you you are done ? You are basing this all on a ‘feeling’ not real concrete circumstances.

You are making married sex out out to be something other then what it is- a holy act, a privilage, a blessing. It’s not an evil to be avoided because you might be BLESSED with another child. If God so blesses you with number 5, do you think it was a mistake on His part then? What is the worst thing that would happen if you had another child? Is anyone’s life at risk here? Are you going to lose your home? Not be able to feed/clothe them?
I am asking for supporting evidence that God is closing this door for you.
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I seem to have a LOT to say on this subject… sorry!!! The housework is calling me now so this shall be the last for today!

If we feel God is calling us to stop having babies, then how can we continue to have sex? Maybe you all might think we are twisted in the way we think, or that we are going against God’s design, but He has used us, He has blessed us, now it is time to move on to the next thing He has planned for us, whatever that may be.

Well, the next thing might just be deeper trust in His provisions and His design for the human body and marriage. 😃

Also, I do believe that sex is unitive and my wife and I love making love, but I do not buy into the thinking that the only way to be unitive in a marrage is to have sex. There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: Ecclesiastes 3:1. I feel that God is calling us to a deeper spirituality now. He is trying to get us to connect through prayer, not orgasam.

I am saying that when you give your body over to God and your spouse in a trusting way you are growing in leaps and bounds in your spiritual life. Sex is not just a physical act! It’s a SPIRITUAL ACT. One that opens the door to God and creation. You have lowered sex to the merely physical plane. What is love but to give up your LIFE for others??? What better way to show true love then to surrender yourself BODY and soul to another and God?

Denying sex is not some great spiritual journey. It’s the easier of the paths you can choose. Having to change your life style, reajust your priorities is true growth. What could God possibly have in store for you that would be more important then that? 🙂

And you are right there are seasons! I am counting on ‘my season’ coming soon!!! That would be menapause, but a couple who are healthy and fertile, should still be ‘in season’ until God takes you out. Also breastfeeding is another ‘season’ of infertitlity. NFP would be another example of using seasons… you are not really using ‘seasons’ but all out barreness of seasons.

Love is more than sex. Right? God is love and he created sex, but sex is not the only form of love. God did not create Adam and Eve for sole purpose of sex only, He created them to love each other and sex is just part of that love, but not the most important part. Sex is beautiful and is good, but it should not define a marriage and the love a husband and wife have for each other.

Of course it is and of course it’s not. the ONLY form of love. But it is a pretty important. How do you reconcile St Paul saying we are only to abstain for short periods as to avoid temptations? How else does a couple literally become one? It takes a great deal of mutual trust to give oneself over in such an intimate manner. It also takes a lot of trust to give your body over to God and let Him use it as He sees fit. If we only had sex to have babies, then* maybe* you could justify not having it. It would cold and clinical. But there is so much more to it then that. You asked me if I thought it would better your marriage, or weaken it and I am answering honestly that I think it will weaken it and your faith and trust in God.
Your life should not be consumed with sex, there are times when it’s more loving to refrain, of course. But in the over all big scheme of things, sex is a way of living out your faith and trust in God. Avoiding it just to avoid children is the same as not trusting in God and you are denying a very important aspect of marriage that MAY result in children, but then again MAY NOT! But again children are counted as a BLESSING so we should always rejoice in their births.

I mean do the math… we have been married 26 years and only have 9 pgs and 7 children to show for a whole lot of ‘trusting’ 🙂 We have by no means been over taken by children here.

I did struggle with many of these same questions about 5 kids ago. 😃 Though not Catholic, a book that really challenged me was ‘The Way Home’ by Mary Pride - homeschool.co.uk/product/1027

I came across it providentially in a Good Will store and paid all of .25 cents for it.
God’s blessings, you seem to be getting angry with everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut here. I know how that feels. Your comfort zone is being challenged and sometimes it’s hard to listen to what God is clearly saying.
Will be praying for you each time I care for my Christine. With out having changed my views of children, I would have missed out on this wonderous child, and all the rest!! And the growth and lessons God has taught, and is teaching me through them.
 
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Doihavtasay:
You asked me if I thought it would better your marriage, or weaken it and I am answering honestly that I think it will weaken it and your faith and trust in God.
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Thank you for the honest reply. You make some great points that I should have thought about from the begining, along with many others on this thread. It will take much more prayer to discern what God is calling us to and your reply(along with the others) will give us much to pray on.
Thanks
 
Sometimes I don’t have that faith and turn down my dh which is a sin and I will need to confess it.

It is also very important to remember (for all of us) that refusing our spouse can lead them to sexual sin!

I agree with all you have said, and your posts (along with a few others) were encouraging.
 
After reading all these debates here, me and Cara (my wife), we’re in doubt. Now it’s all confusing. :confused:
 
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777:
After reading all these debates here, me and Cara (my wife), we’re in doubt. Now it’s all confusing. :confused:
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That’s ok.
Confusion is the first step to learning.

You now now there is more to the story, so go out and seek the rest of the information. I suggest listening to two presentations. They are available on CD:

The first is short and to the point of Catholic marriage:

Marriage and the Eucharist by Christopher West. Available for free (you pay a couple of dollars for shipping and handling) from the Mary Foundation website. I was able to listen to the entire CD while taking my afternoon walk.

For a more extensive presentation there is Naked Without Shame (a crash course in the Theology of the Body) by Jeff Cavins available from The Gift Foundation website. It’s a 10 CD set for $3.90. I’m just now starting to listen to that (so far, so good) so I don’t have any answers from that perspective for you now.
 
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byzmelkite:
Why is it so awful? Its only awful if we are attached to created things. In the early Church, it wasn’t considered so awful. I suspect that our desires for sex are artificially inflated due to media influence in the culture. I think a celibate marriage can be a great witness to the world, showing that love and companionship can be fulfilling without having to engage in intercourse.
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" . . . without having to engage in intercourse." I am very, very puzzled here. Why does sex border on evil for so many Catholics? It seems that virginity, chastity, celebacy is looked upon as the ideal. People who do not have sex are so revered – Mary, Joseph, Nuns, Priests, those in religious life as if sex is so terrible and sinful that those who avoid it are praised and everyone is really supposed to look up to them and strive to be like them.

Why are people who don’t have sex considered to be superior? What happened to “be fruitful and multiply?” I’ve been reading the Old Testament and even after Mosaic Law was instituted, most men who are/were considered to be very Godly, had sex with and children with several different women (David, Soloman, etc.).

If they were honest, many married women would say they could take or leave sex. But, when husbands complain about it, the church says its wrong for women to deny their husbands. But, when men deny their wives, its somehow righteous.

My husband and I have been chaste for many years and no intercourse is perfectly fine with me. However, in my husband’s goal to remain so, he cut out all affection so as to not arouse (I’m guessing). Not sleeping in the same bed as me even when I feel very down or very sick or very scared or very lonely has caused an enormous amount of pain and damage to our marriage. Also, refusing to kiss or really touch your spouse (or anyone close to you) when they need it, is abusive. Denying affection is an evil thing to do to someone. Especially to someone you are supposed to love whether it be your spouse, your children, your sister, your grandpa, etc.

So, my advice is be chaste. From the human standpoint, I don’t think intercourse is really a big deal. Your wife would probably be fine with no intercourse, but do not ever deny your wife any other kind of affection. If you follow in the footsteps of Mary & Joseph and people in religious orders, you may get to Heaven faster, but lack of intimacy in marriage is a faster way to divorce!
 
tossolul said:
I would honestly have to say that except for extraordinary circumstance, being celibant is not how God intended married couples to live their lives. It’s hard to put your total trust and faith in God that He will provide. It’s so easy to say, what about college, what about hospital bills, etc.?

If you were to choose to be celibant, I honestly believe it would lead to other things in a marriage that were not good. Most people naturally have a sexual drive, and if you cut that off, it may come out in ways that do not agree with catholic teaching.

Trust that God will provide for you. Live your life for His will. Know that if He didn’t intend for you to have any more children you would not have them whether you were having relations with your wife or not. If you hinder His plan for your life- you may very well be missing out on some incredible blessings He has planned for you! He is ultimately the only one who should make decisions in our lives. Us purposefully blocking this is what I believe to be a grave mistake.

God bless you.
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Yes, people naturally have a sex drive but aren’t priests and nuns (called) to be celibate? So it’s not impossible. If the husband and wife agree to have a celibate marriage, that’s their business and love, companionship, affection, partnership within that type of marriage without bitterness or resentment or affairs. It’s not optimal but possible. Or so I’ve heard. Think of it this way, you’d have the Holy Family itself as a model, wouldn’t you?
 
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