Celibacy within marriage?

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However, complete abstinece, for a year or more as you seem to indicate, would likely be very difficult for most married couples, but especially for newlyweds.
Personally, I think a year of abstinence would be easier for virginal newlyweds because it will just be a postponement rather than an interruption in what may have already become a practice for those further along in marriage.
Where is that in church teaching, please? A marriage isn’t valid because the couple temporarily chooses not to have sex?
I think that idea comes from this:
Can. 1061 §1 A valid marriage between baptised persons is said to be merely ratified, if it is not consummated; ratified and consummated, if the spouses have in a human manner engaged together in a conjugal act in itself apt for the generation of offspring. To this act marriage is by its nature ordered and by it the spouses become one flesh.
§2 If the spouses have lived together after the celebration of their marriage, consummation is presumed until the contrary is proven.
§3 An invalid marriage is said to be putative if it has been celebrated in good faith by at least one party. It ceases to be such when both parties become certain of its nullity.
 
I can’t site from Chruch teachings, but I have heard of this point, usually when people speak of anullment…if they did not have sex in the marriage it would be easy to anull…

I cannot confim the teaching, but I have heard of that being asked before.
Appreciate it, sir - how you doing? (I’ll go to pm)
 
So, If you knew and understood the point of my post, then I don’t understand why you posted. :confused:

Here’s the thing that I see.
Sure, people expect the pill to work, just like they expect condoms or NFP to work.
But, when the pill fails, they talk about it’s faiure rate…
When NFP fails, they talk about the operature’s failure to use it correctly.

My point is that they should be careful and tell the people the whole truth and not elevate it to something that it is not…

When you give people half the info, you set them up for serious surprises.

And yes, yo did mention that your colleague is a physician in the first post
Gotcha. But it’s also true that when the pill fails, most of the time it is due to “operator failure” as well.

Now back to topic.
 
I think you owe PM an apology, especially since you insinuated that he was pulling out and called it an NFP failure.
You may think that I owe him an apology, but I don’t think that I do, and as he hasn’t said anything, I have no reason to think that he does (If PM thinks I owe him an apology, I would do so GLADLY)

I did not insinuate anything. I made a statement. Coitus Interruptus is often pointed to by those that don’t know anything about NFP and say ‘NFP doesn’t work’

I never claimed to know his history, or circumstances. I also do know that NFP DOES have a failure rate (as does any method of birth control!)

Now, as for any one owing an apology…
 
Where is that in church teaching, please? A marriage isn’t valid because the couple temporarily chooses not to have sex? .
One year, when both parties are physically capable (not separated by distance, or health reasons) is NOT what I would call ‘temporary’.

It is one thing to go a few days, or even weeks, of not having marital relations. But to plan to marry, and then to abstain from an integral part of marriage for 12 months… 52 weeks… 365 days…

I don’t know where that is in ‘teaching’ either, but I don’t see the logic in abstaining for such a long period.
 
I do not doubt that all birth control methods have a failure rate, but to elevate it to the level that some folks here do, and then assure other people of the total reliability is take a bit too far.

That was the point of my post.
PM… I realize that you were, um… ‘surprised’ by a pregnancy after you followed NFP.

Maybe it is one of the reasons for the shock - I say shock now because you brought up the pregnancy in this thread - is because perhaps you thought it was 100% effective.

I have never heard from any one that advocates NFP, or any other method of birth control, that NFP is 100% effective. I never suggested it when I mentioned ‘perhaps you didn’t do it right’. That was my reason for using ‘perhaps’

The thing that I have noticed is that so many that are not willing to use NFP is because of the perception is that it is vastly less effective than artificial birth control. This is where we part ways!

When someone says ‘You should use NFP’, a common reply is, ‘Oh, no, every one that I know that TRIED that has 10 kids’. Suggesting that if they hadn’t used NFP, their number would be a lot smaller, and the family didn’t want to have the 10 kids they have.

Abstinence within a marriage, when it’s temporary, when it’s a choice that both parties make, is often a tool for making the marriage stronger.

Abstaining for short periods is a good thing. Abstaining for a year is not what I think any one would call a short period of abstinence.

NFP DOES WORK! It has a failure rate much like that of the Contraceptive Pill. But it does have a failure rate. The ONLY sure method of preventing a pregnancy is to not have sex.
 
We actually had a talk with our priest a while back about spacing kids and NFP. (His perfectly okay with couples spacing up to 3 years.) The subject came up about people wanting to use NFP to avoid children right after marriage. He was of the opinion that if your not ready to have children you are not ready to be married.

Think and pray about the reasons you want to use NFP/abstinence and remember that the teaching is for “serious” reason. The reason I say this is the word inconvenient in your post. Granted I don’t know the seriousness of you inconvenience 😉 but in general I don’t think inconveniences justify NFP because once you start where do you draw the line?

Secondly remembering back to the first year of my marriage there is no way in the world I would recommend abstinence in any form. Your newly married enjoy each other! Don’t add stress of NFP/abstinence to what general is a rather “stormy” time in a marriage.
 
Perhaps discussion regarding NFP accuracy should be left to another thread?..

I would agree with PM that perhaps the OP should postpone marriage for a year. Especially in the event that they do not intent on consummating for a year (this would be speculation on my part, as I do not know if that’s what you’re proposing)…the purpose of marriage must be considered…what LJN said 🙂
 
You may think that I owe him an apology, but I don’t think that I do, and as he hasn’t said anything, I have no reason to think that he does (If PM thinks I owe him an apology, I would do so GLADLY)

I did not insinuate anything. I made a statement. Coitus Interruptus is often pointed to by those that don’t know anything about NFP and say ‘NFP doesn’t work’

I never claimed to know his history, or circumstances. I also do know that NFP DOES have a failure rate (as does any method of birth control!)

Now, as for any one owing an apology…
Oh, please can we stop with the _____ owes ____ an apology talk?
 
One year, when both parties are physically capable (not separated by distance, or health reasons) is NOT what I would call ‘temporary’.

It is one thing to go a few days, or even weeks, of not having marital relations. But to plan to marry, and then to abstain from an integral part of marriage for 12 months… 52 weeks… 365 days…

I don’t know where that is in ‘teaching’ either, but I don’t see the logic in abstaining for such a long period.
Of course one year is temporary. And, IMO temporary is a timing issue and other things like distance or health do not make something temporary or not.

Did anyone see post #21 about a source for these ideas?

The logic for abstaining for one year is to me very obvious, it definitely postpones pregnancy for one year.
 
I have never heard from any one that advocates NFP, or any other method of birth control, that NFP is 100% effective.
If you look around these boards you will find a huge number of folks that imply that NFP is as close to 100% as you can get without being 100%.
The thing that I have noticed is that so many that are not willing to use NFP is because of the perception is that it is vastly less effective than artificial birth control.
Very true and very wrong of those folks.
Abstinence within a marriage, when it’s temporary, when it’s a choice that both parties make, is often a tool for making the marriage stronger.
Agree that that is often the case.
Abstaining for short periods is a good thing.
For some, not all IMO.
Abstaining for a year is not what I think any one would call a short period of abstinence.
Maybe you don’t think that, but I know lots of folks that would call a year short, especially when tied to an idea like we need a year to finish school.
The ONLY sure method of preventing a pregnancy is to not have sex.
Very true and the very reason to abstain for a year if there is a need not to get pregnant for a year.
 
Seriously, if your going to abstain for the first year of marriage whats the point in getting married? If your that worried about having kids would it not be easier to postpone the wedding a year, instead of living/sleeping together?
 
Think and pray about the reasons you want to use NFP/abstinence and remember that the teaching is for “serious” reason.
Isn’t that the standard for NFP and not the standard for abstinence? I have never heard that standard applied to the sort of abstinence being discussed here.
Secondly remembering back to the first year of my marriage there is no way in the world I would recommend abstinence in any form. Your newly married enjoy each other! Don’t add stress of NFP/abstinence to what general is a rather “stormy” time in a marriage.
I think many could easily say don’t add the stress of sex to the first year of marriage. There is no one size fits all answer here.
 
Seriously, if your going to abstain for the first year of marriage whats the point in getting married? If your that worried about having kids would it not be easier to postpone the wedding a year, instead of living/sleeping together?
It may be the better answer to wait, but there may also be many reasons to go forward. Why would it be so terrible to decide to do so? Indeed, I have heard many stories of those that involuntarily abstained for the first year because they had pregnancy fears of otherwise just couldn’t make things work.
 
If you look around these boards you will find a huge number of folks that imply that NFP is as close to 100% as you can get without being 100%. ]

Is it an implication? or an inference?

Still, I think that the question was asked about being abstinate after marriage.

My take on the posts is that the general concensus is that it’s not a good idea for a year for the first year of marriage.

If you are not ready to have children, why rush to marriage? I don’t get it.

Ok, I don’t have to, but I just don’t get it.
 
Is it an implication? or an inference?
I think the posters imply it and the readers infer it. (I am such a geek.)
Still, I think that the question was asked about being abstinate after marriage.

My take on the posts is that the general concensus is that it’s not a good idea for a year for the first year of marriage.

If you are not ready to have children, why rush to marriage? I don’t get it.

Ok, I don’t have to, but I just don’t get it.
I will say that I do agree with the majority in that my advice would generally be to wait the year to get married. However, I do not agree that the first year of marriage would be the hardest year to practice abstinence if the couple was virginal coming into the marriage.

I guess I don’t need to get it either.
 
Isn’t that the standard for NFP and not the standard for abstinence? I have never heard that standard applied to the sort of abstinence being discussed here.
I’d believe the serious reason applies to avoidance of having children in marriage regardless of the method used. It doesn’t really make since to say you must have serious reason to practice NFP but you can use full blown abstinence for any reason at all. Remember that just denying a spouse the “martial dept” requires a good reason by its self.
I think many could easily say don’t add the stress of sex to the first year of marriage. There is no one size fits all answer here.
I suppose you could 🙂 Not sure I ever talk to anyone that thought there sex life was stressful tho 😉
 
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