Celibacy

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Does that make it right !!!

Did I say that?

Once again, you try to divert the discussion.

You say that the cause is celibacy, I point out that it is not.

Rather than discussing this you accuse me of saying that what happened was right?

What is your issue that you can not carry on a discussion?

 

[JReducation]

Is ‘Celbacy’ not someway responsible for the trouble the Church finds itself in today?
I think it is!

The sad thing is that I wouldn’t mind if they were accused of affairs with woman, as that is a natural risk of those in community.

But interfering with children!

May they rot in Hell!!

I’ve noticed one thing about your posts. I want to say it very respectfully. I get the impression that you have a great love and admiration for the Carthusians. So do many of us. That is good.

But you post venous things about the Church, which baffles me. Because the Carthusian spirit that you hold so dear is very faithful to the Church and responds to the Church in very loving ways. When St. Bruno founded them, he did not start them because he was angry or disgruntled with the Church. Otherwise the movement would have collapsed. He wanted to bring something to the Church.

My strong suggestion here as that you too try to take the example of Bruno and bring to the table what is good for the Church without the hostility and without wanting to change her.

I learned many things from our Holy Father Francis. But regarding the Church there is one thing that he taught us that has always seemed very practical. We were not founded to change the Church. We were never to question the Church. We were never to disobey the Church. We were never to ask for anything from the Church. But we were ordered under obedience to convert Catholics back to Catholicism. I think I finally understand the meaning here. We must change the hearts of men and the Church will be safe.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Cowfold]

Did I say that?

Once again, you try to divert the discussion.

You say that the cause is celibacy, I point out that it is not.

Rather than discussing this you accuse me of saying that what happened was right?

What is your issue that you can not carry on a discussion?

That is what we are doing!

I posed the question ‘Is Celbacy’ the cause hoping to enter into sensible dialogue.
I for one am not interested in cover ups of the like that is presently going on in UK and my home Ireland.

 

[Cowfold]

I’ve noticed one thing about your posts. I want to say it very respectfully. I get the impression that you have a great love and admiration for the Carthusians. So do many of us. That is good.
But you post venous things about the Church, which baffles me. Because the Carthusian spirit that you hold so dear is very faithful to the Church and responds to the Church in very loving ways. When St. Bruno founded them, he did not start them because he was angry or disgruntled with the Church. Otherwise the movement would have collapsed. He wanted to bring something to the Church.

My strong suggestion here as that you too try to take the example of Bruno and bring to the table what is good for the Church without the hostility and without wanting to change her.

I learned many things from our Holy Father Francis. But regarding the Church there is one thing that he taught us that has always seemed very practical. We were not founded to change the Church. We were never to question the Church. We were never to disobey the Church. We were never to ask for anything from the Church. But we were ordered under obedience to convert Catholics back to Catholicism. I think I finally understand the meaning here. We must change the hearts of men and the Church will be safe.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

With the greatest of respect I do not need any patronising homilies from you.

 

[JReducation]

Does that make it right !!!

I’m afraid that Brother is right. His point was that the sexula abuse of minors takes place in every quarter. Therefore, there is not connection between celibacy and sexual abuse.

It was not Brother who introduced the abuse subject. You did as a differense for your position against celibacy. Brother just argued that it does not work, because if celibacy was at the root, then sexual abuse among celibates would be proportionately higher than in other populations and it is not.

Recently, the Boy Scouts in Oregon, I believe, had 1,200 cases of sexual abuse. That’s just in one state. These Scout Leaders were not celibate. The issue is not celibacy. That’s what Brother is trying to say.

The topic of the thread is celibacy. But if you want to speak about celibacy, you must bring to the table something that has not been said before and disproven by scholars.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

With the greatest of respect I do not need any patronising homilies from you.

I apologize if I sounded patronizing. I just meant to share an observatioin and give you some ideas.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Cowfold]

(Edited)

My stance is simple.

Diocesan Priest (Secular Clergy) should be permitted to marry if they choose. I believe there are many external ‘distractions’ open to those on the outside and this partnership can only be a stabilizing influence.

I also believe that it will bring more vocations to the Church.

Now, if a man believes he has a ‘higher’ calling ( dangerous ground here!!!) he may wish to enter one of the monastic orders where Celibacy will be mandatory and from that grouping our future Bishops etc, etc, will be called.

Celibacy, therefore is rewarded by those who choose it.

I hope it does not sound like I am canvassing for O.Cart as that is the one order which would not tolerate advancement (purely on the belief that you have already attained the ultimate spiritual goal membership of that order offers.

 

[JReducation]

(Edited)

My stance is simple.

Diocesan Priest (Secular Clergy) should be permitted to marry if they choose. I believe there are many external ‘distractions’ open to those on the outside and this partnership can only be a stabilizing influence.

Now we have some meat and potatoes on the table. I find this last point interesting. I have to think about that one. I’ll get back to you.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

(Edited)

My stance is simple.

Diocesan Priest (Secular Clergy) should be permitted to marry if they choose. I believe there are many external ‘distractions’ open to those on the outside and this partnership can only be a stabilizing influence.

I also believe that it will bring more vocations to the Church.

Never in the history of the Church has the Church allowed ordained men to marry. It goes against what the Church has consistently taught about Holy Orders.

What the Church has done is ordained married men, which is a totally different thing.

As for this bringing more vocations, again the statistics are against you. Those Churches (Eastern Catholic and Orthodox) that ordain married men are also lacking in vocations as the Latin Church is.

Also the denominations that allow their ministers to marry after their “ordinations” are hurting just as bad, there is no increase shown statistically.

 

[joandarc2008]

I’m sorry - not to sound ignorant - but what do you mean by O. Cart.

 

[MFTM]

(Edited)

My stance is simple.

Diocesan Priest (Secular Clergy) should be permitted to marry if they choose. I believe there are many external ‘distractions’ open to those on the outside and this partnership can only be a stabilizing influence.

I also believe that it will bring more vocations to the Church.

Now, if a man believes he has a ‘higher’ calling ( dangerous ground here!!!) he may wish to enter one of the monastic orders where Celibacy will be mandatory and from that grouping our future Bishops etc, etc, will be called.

Celibacy, therefore is rewarded by those who choose it…

Diocesan Priests do CHOOSE celibacy. They know before they start that celibacy is part of their commitment.