Centering Prayer and the prayer of recollection

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This topic is close to my heart, having loved a lot of Merton’s writing despite not understanding all of it. 🙂
I did notice the other day, that Bishop Barron gave the “all clear” vote of support to Merton being fully grounded in Catholicism despite his interest in Buddhism. When he was writing his work on Buddhism, he was supposed to have been saying Mass every day as a priest. That’s what Barron said anyway.
 
Edward_H said:
Prayer is by definition personal conversation with God.
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Who’s definition is that?

Better stick with Church teaching:
WHAT IS PRAYER?

For me, prayer is a surge of the heart; it is a simple look turned toward heaven, it is a cry of recognition and of love, embracing both trial and joy.1
Prayer as God’s gift

2559 "Prayer is the raising of one’s mind and heart to God or the requesting of good things from God."2 But when we pray, do we speak from the height of our pride and will, or “out of the depths” of a humble and contrite heart?3 He who humbles himself will be exalted;4 humility is the foundation of prayer, Only when we humbly acknowledge that "we do not know how to pray as we ought,"5 are we ready to receive freely the gift of prayer. “Man is a beggar before God.”

2562 Where does prayer come from? Whether prayer is expressed in words or gestures, it is the whole man who prays. But in naming the source of prayer, Scripture speaks sometimes of the soul or the spirit, but most often of the heart (more than a thousand times). According to Scripture, it is the heart that prays. If our heart is far from God, the words of prayer are in vain.

2563 The heart is the dwelling-place where I am, where I live; according to the Semitic or Biblical expression, the heart is the place “to which I withdraw.” The heart is our hidden center, beyond the grasp of our reason and of others; only the Spirit of God can fathom the human heart and know it fully. The heart is the place of decision, deeper than our psychic drives. It is the place of truth, where we choose life or death. It is the place of encounter, because as image of God we live in relation: it is the place of covenant.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s1.htm
 
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the CCC uses this definition, quoting St. John Damascene…mind (intellect…words, talking) and heart.

No spiritual writer would disagree that prayer is conversation with God.

show me one.
 
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Prayer can certainly involve “conversation” but it does not have to, Silence is also a possibility. Unless you think in terms of a silent conversation.

CCC 2717 Contemplative prayer is silence, the "symbol of the world to come"12 or "silent love."13 Words in this kind of prayer are not speeches; they are like kindling that feeds the fire of love. In this silence, unbearable to the “outer” man, the Father speaks to us his incarnate Word, who suffered, died, and rose; in this silence the Spirit of adoption enables us to share in the prayer of Jesus.
 
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After reading that prayer by definition is personal conversation with God and “Sharing everything with Him…” I meditated on these points of view for a while. In my view the most important part of conversation is listening. I certainly need to work on this part of conversing, I tend to listen poorly. How can I really share everything(meaning my self) with someone, anyone, even God unless I’m 100% there/here for them through the listening? I don’t believe it can be done. Listening is the key, not speaking, reciting, thinking. Simply being in the moment and listening for the whisper of answers that many of us want or believe we need. My two cents.
 
Yes, but even “listening” needs refining. Because we are not listening for verbal words, are we. More like movements in the heart, in the spirit. And yet “listening” is the best way to put it since it requires our attentiveness, alertness.
 
Personally, I’ve never found centering prayer very helpful. No doubt, my mind is already adequately empty.
 
That’s right. Empty heads don’t have to empty their mind. 🙂 Which is a distinct advantage in this case.
My mind is full. Full of useless rubbish, most of the time.
 
None. Each day I simply get up, perform my vital functions, and then go to bed again.
 
I didn’t found CP helpful either. Some boring word? And which one to pick?

Ok, sometimes “Father” or “Jesus” helped. Sometimes a new word would come to me.

What I do now though is simple a tool to prepare for prayer. I sit there and slowly count in my mind to 100. If I make it I then start counting backward. It is just a way to clear all the random thoughts that come. In the process I intend to be in God’s presence, listening between the numbers, dwelling in the silence with God when I am done. Maybe then using a word from time to tome.
 
My anesthesiologist once asked me to count backwards from 10. I only made it to 7.
 
It is easier of you are not on drugs. Hah!

But still. Sometimes. I don’t make it to 25 before those sleepy images drift in. I never make it back down to 0 without times of sleepy drift.
 
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In silence God talks to you…that’s conversation.

God speaks in silence to us giving us inspirations to change, to do better, to form a resolution.

God didn’t create the brain to be empty…but to be filled with love of Him.

there is just so much psychobabble being spread in CAF on spiritual matters.
 
I’m not trying to empty the brain. I am however trying to still the thought waves of the mind. I’m trying to create space, space for listening, change, and inspirations…Be not afraid.
 
Shakuhachi said:
Is one’s prayer “tending toward simpler expressions”?

Does one feel “drawn to God beyond words”.

Perhaps so and perhaps not. I think that is where all the controversy originates. Those who would answer “yes” to those questions most likely favor CP. Those who would newer “no” might see it as “dangerous”.
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I still think this to be true.
 
misstherese said:
It’s the not that emptying ones mind is itself a danger, but that the practice has no roots in Christianity…
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What is your objective basis for saying this. This is nonsense. Its roots are in eastern hesychastic prayer. That is thoroughly Christian. Perhaps do some objective research on the matter.
 
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