Centering Prayer No Longer Banned?

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goout said:
Have you considered that “they” might already have a deeply profound gift in prayer and you don’t know it?
Maybe “they” are lighting candles for you without your knowledge.

Not saying you haven’t, just asking the question, since the thread and your comments sort of begs it.
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I’m going by what they have posted in here with regards to saying prayers by rote and being constantly distracted mentally and getting bored.

I’m not judging them, but just reading what they have posted about the struggles they have with prayer.

And BTW, I too had the same struggles before I was led to Contemplative Prayer.

St Teresa of Avila wrote about the same issues with her nuns and she was not judging them either.

It’s part of the spiritual journey and we should be here to help each other. However, being Centering Prayer was banned, myself and others had to avoid the subject, while trying to share our experiences in other ways.

Jim
 
fred_conty said:
What would you say in reply to the following page which warns against centering prayer? My intention is not to put anyone down, but just want to know the other side of what is being said addressing these arguments.

newagedeception.com/new/free-resources/4-7-reasons-why-the-errors-in-the-centering-prayer-movement-should-not-be-in-your-parish.html
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This is one of the false articles on the internet which Women of Grace linked to.

The author is a convert and CCD teacher. She was a former beauty queen.

Do you suppose she knows more about Centering Prayer than Fr Keating and the many other monastics and clergy who have been doing this form of prayer all of their adult lives ?

Jim
 
jeannetherese said:
Spiritual dry spells happen, even to the great mystics and to Saint Teresa of Calcutta. Rote prayer may be used to press forward through these spells, one way of praying always. It may be helpful to consider that sometimes prayer may feel like a chore because of such a dry spell, or because Satan is sifting us and to persevere in rote prayer as a means of fighting through this.

May God bless all who visit our thread.
Amen.
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I never found prayer time to be a chore. I pray that never happens.

That doesn’t mean I sometimes miss my usual prayer time during the day, but when I do, I miss it.

Dry spells generally come in the spiritual life over all. For myself, this is when I don’t receive consolations nor feel the presence of Jesus.

You are correct, we have to press through these times and over my 41 years of spiritual life, I have found that it’s the dry times that I’ve grown the most. Remaining in faith when God seems nothing more than an abstract thought is difficult, but I believe it’s God’s way of getting us to detach from our own ideas and images of God. In exchange, He reveals Himself as He really is.

God is Love, and those who love, God dwells within them.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
This is one of the false articles on the internet which Women of Grace linked to.

The author is a convert and CCD teacher. She was a former beauty queen.

Do you suppose she knows more about Centering Prayer than Fr Keating and the many other monastics and clergy who have been doing this form of prayer all of their adult lives ?

Jim
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You aren’t trying the “argument from authority” fallacy here, are you?

Catholic Answers appears to think rather well of this woman.

catholic.com/profile/sharon-lee-giganti

So I guess CA thinks she knows what she’s talking about. . .
 
Tantum_ergo said:
You aren’t trying the “argument from authority” fallacy here, are you?

Catholic Answers appears to think rather well of this woman.

catholic.com/profile/sharon-lee-giganti

So I guess CA thinks she knows what she’s talking about. . .
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Of course they would. She’s provided the anti-Centering Prayer narrative that exists in CAF.

However, her experience in Catholicism is limited and she does not have the experience in spirituality nor the credentials to teach against Centering Prayer.

Everything she posted is incorrect on Centering Prayer and is the opposite of what monks with years of experience in living a contemplative life teach.

Jim
 
Anyway, despite not being a banned topic, it’s not spiritually conducive to continue with the conversation in here.

Those who want to learn more, follow the links that I provided.

I’m taking leave of CAF once again.

Centered In Christ

Jim
 
Jim –

Please be at peace. The worst thing a contemplative can do is let anyone or anything get under their skin. People are either open to contemplative practices or they’re not. And as you well know, many on these forums simply are not.

And please be at peace in the knowledge that acquired contemplation methods (of which CP is just one example) have a very long history within various spiritual schools in the Church. In our own Carmelite tradition, we have the Spanish and French theologians in the years immediately following the deaths of Sts. Teresa and John who strove to apply the teachings of the two Doctors in a more accessible way by showing that “methods” (of which CP is an example) are a very suitable means to dispose oneself for the gift of infused contemplation. Those efforts have continued through the centuries culminating with the work of the esteemed Fr. Marie-Eugene (whose cause for canonization is under review) and Fr. Gabriel of St. Mary Magdalen in the mid 20th century to Fr. Larkin several decades later. Several posters have already mentioned him.

Earlier in this thread I cited the teaching of St. Teresa on the Prayer of Recollection from chapters 28-30 of Way of Perfection. No one responded. I’ve made this same citation more times than I can count in nearly 15 years participation in CP related threads on these forums. Again, not a single nay-sayer has ever responded. For whatever reason, polemical articles like the one by Fr. Dreher seem to carry more weight than the actual teaching of a Doctor of the Church. I truly believe that if anyone bothered to read these short chapters they would find an acquired contemplation method not all too different from what more modern writers like Fr. Keating describe. And she encourages everyone to do it.

And please be a peace knowing there’s nothing wrong in trying to share and spread the contemplative gifts you’ve been given. In fact, the Carmelite Friars of the Washington Province (covering the eastern 1/3 of the US) have produced a simple brochure on St. Teresa’s Prayer of Recollection for this very purpose. My Carmelite community distributes these brochures for the Friars to parishes throughout our area. They have been received by parishioners to great effect. Why? Because the people picking them up are receptive.

So continue to spread the word … but maybe find another pool to swim in than these forums.

Peace in Carmel,
Dave 🙂

Link to the brochure for those interested:
icspublications.org/search?type=product&q=prayer+of+recollection
 
DBT said:
Jim –

Please be at peace. The worst thing a contemplative can do is let anyone or anything get under their skin. People are either open to contemplative practices or they’re not. And as you well know, many on these forums simply are not.
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Let me bring the same point up with you.

How do you know that a particular person is not seeing God close up when they pray a certain way? How do you know that?
We have categories evidently:
Open-Not Open.
I-They

Elitist comparisons are not what contemplative prayer should lead a person to.
There is contemplative prayer, but that prayer is not a gnostic hurdle of exclusive knowledge, limited to certain practices, and opposed to common piety and devotion.

It’s possible the rosary-praying masses are experiencing heaven in a rather straightforward manner.
It is possible. If we love each other, we should hope they are entering before us, without disparaging their life of prayer.
 
Hello Goout -

I don’t know how you draw the conclusions you do. Nothing gnostic or elitist about it. All prayer methods can be a path to contemplation and no single method is better than another. I was simply citing the example of St. Teresa who puts forward a method of prayer similar to what Fr. Keating calls centering prayer. It is suitable for everyone.

Dave.
 
Where are we getting the idea that Jim said something denigrating the praying of the Rosary? I did not get that at all from his post and I don’t even know the guy except reading a few posts he made. My impression was that he felt his contemplative prayer method had helped him deepen his prayer experience and that maybe other people would benefit. He didn’t say the Rosary is a weak way to pray or tell people not to pray it.

I did note that there were some articles about and writings by both St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross on contemplative prayer methods, and I think I saw a recent book that discussed Teresa’s method. I didn’t mention her on here or respond to the reference to her simply because it seemed like this thread had turned into some weird, insular rehash of something that apparently happened before I was around (I have also looked up old threads where people respond to the idea of centering prayer with horror like somebody said they were going to call up the devil) whereby Jim advocates this contemplative or centering or what you call it Trappist prayer method and other people come out of the woodwork attacking it and demanding the Jim defend it. I’m not interested in getting in the middle of some schoolyard brawl when I’m genuinely trying to learn about different ways to pray.

I already said the Dreher article came off to me as being hysterical and poorly informed and this Giganti woman’s piece did not impress me either.

Jim and other posters provided some good references and at this point I plan to just go read them in peace. Honestly after reading the bickering that goes on all over CAF, a nice Trappist monastery meditation session in silence sounds great. Peace.
 
May we all find our way into the heart of Christ and dwell in his peace.

Life can be o difficult, so troubling in so many ways.

I am a pretty tranquil introvert so quiet prayer usually comes easy (unless it turns into sleep).

But there are times when I just cannot find the quiet. Sometimes ofentering prayer, sometimes, rosary or Jesus prayer, sometimes, chapter of Divine Mercy.

It is a blessing to have so many tools in the toolbox.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
But there are times when I just cannot find the quiet. Sometimes ofentering prayer, sometimes, rosary or Jesus prayer, sometimes, chapter of Divine Mercy.

It is a blessing to have so many tools in the toolbox.
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Amen!
I see the different prayer forms as akin to different workout routines - running vs. lifting vs. calisthenics, etc. Or “tools” as you put it.
 
DBT said:
Hello Goout -

I don’t know how you draw the conclusions you do. Nothing gnostic or elitist about it. All prayer methods can be a path to contemplation and no single method is better than another. I was simply citing the example of St. Teresa who puts forward a method of prayer similar to what Fr. Keating calls centering prayer. It is suitable for everyone.

Dave.
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Perhaps you could reread what I actually said. I have nothing negative to say about centering prayer.
Prayer is something that a person participates in with God, and the way that a person participates in it lends to the character of the prayer. A method of prayer isn’t a thing in itself and for itself. Prayer is a living relationship with God.
Contemplative prayer doesn’t put itself at opposition to other types of prayer as superior.

These threads are not much different than the “EF vs OF” threads. Its not the form of the Mass that causes an issue, it’s the disposition of the people talking about it, the way they see themselves in reference to others with different ways, and the attachments they have to their own ways of doing things.

Centering prayer: yes. 👍
 
:clapping:This is good and commendable news indeed. Much gratitude to CAF for making the change. Thank you.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Amen!
I see the different prayer forms as akin to different workout routines - running vs. lifting vs. calisthenics, etc. Or “tools” as you put it.
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Right, we have a treasure chest of methods, style, traditions.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
Right, we have a treasure chest of methods, style, traditions.
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👍
The Gospel of the widow’s mite can be instructive here.
The widow presents the gift she has, and an outside observer might make the observation that her gift is not at the same level as another’s who’s gift appears more profound.

Maybe the point is to assume the best of another’s method of prayer, and to hope that others are seeing the face of God ahead of us, even if they don’t seem to have reached the spiritual heights we think they ought to have.
 
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