Central Authority -vs- Equal among many

[eucharisteo]

I’ve been following this for a while now. I always thought the Catholic Church was structure hierarchically. However, today I heard Theresa Tomio discuss that the bishops are independent and that the pope really can’t just take over a diocese. Doesn’t this sound contradictory to you. I’d like to discuss this in some rational depth. It makes a huge difference how people perceive the Catholic Church.

Additionally, it seems like the clergy are allowing the perception of the hierchical structure, yet I’ve been hearing and reading that this is not the way many people understand. This sounds like an omission sin that may be related to the “clericalism” heresies I learned about. In fact, the titles we use for bishops, cardinals also emphasis “royalty” in a way that perpetuates this misunderstanding. I feel like this is purposefully misleading the flock, another form of heresy by placing themselves first, rather than as servants. Don’t even bother with anti-Catholic remarks. I will ask the moderator to lock it and ban anyone that tries to do this. I’m asking for productive remarks based on knowledge, teaching, …rational thinking.

Thanks

 

[Just_Lurking]

Lumen Gentium tried to better define the structure of the Church. As regards bishops in their own dioceses versus the pope, it said this, for example:

1. Bishops, as vicars and ambassadors of Christ, govern the particular churches entrusted to them (58*) by their counsel, exhortations, example, and even by their authority and sacred power, which indeed they use only for the edification of their flock in truth and holiness, remembering that he who is greater should become as the lesser and he who is the chief become as the servant.(169) This power, which they personally exercise in Christ’s name, is proper, ordinary and immediate, although its exercise is ultimately regulated by the supreme authority of the Church, and can be circumscribed by certain limits, for the advantage of the Church or of the faithful. In virtue of this power, bishops have the sacred right and the duty before the Lord to make laws for their subjects, to pass judgment on them and to moderate everything pertaining to the ordering of worship and the apostolate.

The pastoral office or the habitual and daily care of their sheep is entrusted to them completely; nor are they to be regarded as vicars of the Roman Pontiffs, for they exercise an authority that is proper to them, and are quite correctly called “prelates,” heads of the people whom they govern.(59*) Their power, therefore, is not destroyed by the supreme and universal power, but on the contrary it is affirmed, strengthened and vindicated by it,(60*) since the Holy Spirit unfailingly preserves the form of government established by Christ the Lord in His Church.

 

[MarcoPolo]

You may also want to check out some of the other docs from Vatican II on the hierarchy. Some of them are not that long.

In addition to Lumen Gentium, be sure to check out:

Presbyterorum Ordinis, Decree On the Ministry and Life of Priests
Christus Dominus, Decree Concerning the Pastoral Office of Bishops In the Church

 

[mardukm]

I’ve been following this for a while now. I always thought the Catholic Church was structure hierarchically. However, today I heard Theresa Tomio discuss that the bishops are independent and that the pope really can’t just take over a diocese. Doesn’t this sound contradictory to you. I’d like to discuss this in some rational depth. It makes a huge difference how people perceive the Catholic Church.

Bishops are not “independent.” They are semi-autonomous. This means a bishop does have a measure of independence, but he is ultimately answerable to a higher authority, and are bound by the laws of his superior.

However, it is absolutely true that the Pope “really can’t just take over a diocese.” Short of the case of heresy or grave scandal, the Pope has no authority to remove a bishop from his office. In fact, according to Vatican 1, the Pope’s authority is not supposed to stand in the way of a local bishop’s authority. Rather, the Pope’s authority is meant to defend and uphold his brother bishops’ authority.

BTW, who is Teresa Tomio?

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[bona_fides_1]

The Catholic Church has an incredibly ‘flat’ hiearchy but is very broad. There is a notion of a college or community of bishops who are all peers and have considerable social and relational clout with each other. Peer pressure/standing/respect is an important aspect of the Catholic hiearchy. Never forget that the pope is also a bishop himself and is considered the “servant of the servants of God”.

This is a very efficient structure that lets a small city state like the Vatican manage 1.2 billion Catholics world wide. If the US government could manage itself as efficiently it would be reduced to a fraction of the size it is today and have a fraction of the budget it has today.

Cannon Law is what binds the Church all together. Bishops have authority to standardize their host nations disciplines and self form committees (e.g. USCCB) using the Catholic subsidiary principal. This is how US Bishops have all come together to get the pope to approve that Catholics no longer have to subscribe to abstinence of Fridays if Catholics elect another sacrifice.

BF