Ceramic Chalices being used in US churches

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I’ve been in a constant confussion wether or not ceramic chalices are permitted to be used in U.S. Roman Catholic Churches. According to the G.I.R.M. Gerneral Instruction of the Roman Missial only precious metals may be used. Although so many priests are using ceramic, wooden some priests I have heard have used glass chalices.

Am I a total idiot or is there really a second copy of the G.I.R.M. I don’t have that permits the use of non-precious metal???
 
I’ve been in a constant confussion wether or not ceramic chalices are permitted to be used in U.S. Roman Catholic Churches. According to the G.I.R.M. Gerneral Instruction of the Roman Missial only precious metals may be used. Although so many priests are using ceramic, wooden some priests I have heard have used glass chalices.

Am I a total idiot or is there really a second copy of the G.I.R.M. I don’t have that permits the use of non-precious metal???
Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum, the authoritative document issued from the Holy See back in 2004 (and still in effect) says about the sacred vessels:
  1. Sacred Vessels
    [117.] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.205 The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,206 so that honor will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided.** Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.207**
I hope this helps you.
 
A second copy of the GIRM? Like a secret, clergy-only copy? That permits things that we carp about on CAF? That would be a pretty awesome practical joke!
 
No, you are correct. Chalices and ciboria are to be made from solid, noble, generally-unbreakable materials only.

I certainly “get” the idea that, well, maybe a really nice Waterford chalice would be acceptable, because its inherent value demonstrates the value we place on the Precious Body and Blood as opposed to, say, Dixie cups; but glass is breakable, which is an independent reason it can’t be used.

Gold. Silver. In theory, carve it from a single very large diamond. 😃 But not ceramic, iron or steel, wood, or glass.
 
I’ve been in a constant confussion wether or not ceramic chalices are permitted to be used in U.S. Roman Catholic Churches. According to the G.I.R.M. Gerneral Instruction of the Roman Missial only precious metals may be used. Although so many priests are using ceramic, wooden some priests I have heard have used glass chalices.

Am I a total idiot or is there really a second copy of the G.I.R.M. I don’t have that permits the use of non-precious metal???
Katie,
There is a certain “history” here which needs to be explained. In the early 1970s, when the novus ordo Mass came into use in the US, the GIRM said that the individual conferences of bishops were permitted to allow other noble materials, in addition to precious metals for chalices. The US bishops, rather than define what could be used, simply left this to the decision of the local bishops; not by refraining from listing the materials, but by saying outright that this decision is left to the individual bishops. So we had a period of about 30 years (1973 - 2004) when such materials as clay, glass, pottery, wood, etc. might possibly be used if the local bishop allowed it. Combine that with the fact that the companies that make and market chalices made these widely available and also marketed them quite aggressively. The end result is that we saw the use of these chalices all over the US–whether or not the local bishop expressly permitted it, they were still used. Some bishops permitted them, some simply said nothing, but few ever outright prohibited their use, and those who did eventually retired, or eventually gave-in and allowed it. (I can’t speak about every single bishop here–I’m painting with broad brushstrokes). So, for the most part, these chalices were actually permitted (or so it seemed, read on please)

In 2004, the Holy See, under direct instructions from Pope John Paul II issued Redemptionis Sacramentum (see Benedictgal’s post). At that point in time, those chalices became illicit (ie forbidden). In fact, the practice was declared “reprobate” which is the Church’s way of saying that even if they were permitted in the past, they are no longer so. Actually “reprobate” goes even further than that and declares that they were never permitted in the first place, even though there were might have been laws at some time permitting them. Reprobate means that the law allowing them never actually had force-of-law to begin with. It’s not a concept we’re used to hearing when it comes to our civil laws, but it exists in Church laws. It’s a way of saying that the law that permitted clay chalices was never a legitimate law in the first place.

So the situation we have now is that these chalices are forbidden. Before 2004, the liturgical laws appeared to have permitted them, so when priests used them, and/or pastors purchased them for parishes, they weren’t really “at fault” for doing so.

The problem we have today is that in many places, these illicit chalices continue to be used. That might be because they are simply there in the sacristy and the parish is accustomed to them, or they have some sentimental value, or even because some priests choose to blatantly ignore the liturgical laws of the Church and use them anyway.

So it’s not you who are confused. The history of the liturgical laws on these chalices does make it confusing to understand what those laws say. Now though, after 2004, there is no longer any ambiguity nor any room to misunderstand/misinterpret, nor any excuse even, for using earthenware, glass, crystal, etc. chalices, as they are very clearly forbidden.
 
I’ve been in a constant confussion wether or not ceramic chalices are permitted to be used in U.S. Roman Catholic Churches. According to the G.I.R.M. Gerneral Instruction of the Roman Missial only precious metals may be used. **Although so many priests are using ceramic, wooden some priests I have heard have used glass chalices. **

Am I a total idiot or is there really a second copy of the G.I.R.M. I don’t have that permits the use of non-precious metal???
I guess I just don’t get around that much. I can’t imagine that there are so many priests who use chalices made of inappropriate materials. In all of my (almost) 60 years I do not recall ever seeing a priest use anything other than a precious metal chalice. At one time our parish did have some crystal cups for the EMHC to use but we have since changed to precious metal ones. Now that does not mean that there are no priests useing inappropriate vessels. I just can’t image that there are so many.
 
What really gets me is that the ELCA Lutheran church I play for on the weekends uses a chalice of precious metal. They wouldn’t think of something less to hold the Blood of Our Lord.
 
Is is acceptable to use a pottery-type chalice (like, hand-thrown and painted) in ordinary time? I have attended a parish where the chalice changes depending on if it is ordinary time…outside of ordinary time it is gold.
 
Is is acceptable to use a pottery-type chalice (like, hand-thrown and painted) in ordinary time? I have attended a parish where the chalice changes depending on if it is ordinary time…outside of ordinary time it is gold.
The liturgical season has no bearing on this matter. Please re-read my initial reply to this thread and Fr. David’s follow-up.
 
Is is acceptable to use a pottery-type chalice (like, hand-thrown and painted) in ordinary time? I have attended a parish where the chalice changes depending on if it is ordinary time…outside of ordinary time it is gold.
No. The liturgical season makes no difference. Pottery chalices are always forbidden.
 
Is is acceptable to use a pottery-type chalice (like, hand-thrown and painted) in ordinary time? I have attended a parish where the chalice changes depending on if it is ordinary time…outside of ordinary time it is gold.
No. Only metal. And it should be at least lined with precious metal, preferably gold.

God Bless
 
OK, that’s very clear 😃

No ceramic, even if it is nice pottery.

Gotcha.

I have to admit, though, I am befuddled. This is a HUGE parish…and I still attend mass there when in that area. How could this have gone on so long with no change, if it is (as evidenced by Fr. David’s reference materials) so clearly verboten? There is a seminary nearby, Deacons who are to become Priests are regularly there, a different one every year it seems.

Bilop mentioned a chalice being simply lined with a precious metal. Does this make a difference?

Please note that I am not trying to challenge anyone, it’s just that if I bring this matter up, not only do I want to be charitable, but I also want to be truly educated regarding the matter I am concerned about.
 
OK, that’s very clear 😃

No ceramic, even if it is nice pottery.

Gotcha.

I have to admit, though, I am befuddled. This is a HUGE parish…and I still attend mass there when in that area. How could this have gone on so long with no change, if it is (as evidenced by Fr. David’s reference materials) so clearly verboten? There is a seminary nearby, Deacons who are to become Priests are regularly there, a different one every year it seems.

Bilop mentioned a chalice being simply lined with a precious metal. Does this make a difference?

Please note that I am not trying to challenge anyone, it’s just that if I bring this matter up, not only do I want to be charitable, but I also want to be truly educated regarding the matter I am concerned about.
Well, remember that Redemptionis Sacramentum came out in 2004–so it depends on what you mean by “so long.” Yes, 5 years is a long time for something like this to finally be implemented. Keep in mind that priests who use these chalices have a number of different excuses for doing so–that doesn’t mean they are justified, only that they have a lot of excuses.

Even if they are lined with precious metal, they still aren’t allowed. Simply put, any chalice made from pottery is forbidden–no two ways about it. The lining with precious metal applies when chalices are made from a base metal, like pewter or brass–as most chalices indeed are. Solid sterling is easy to find, but expensive. Solid gold is almost unheard-of.
 
Ok, very clear. Thanks so much, Fr. David. I will bring this matter up gently in the future…I will be attending mass there again in a couple weeks.
 
Thank you so much everyone for your replies. I guess the only other question I have then is, if the priest is one such as the one we have at our parish that is fighting parishners when they bring these sort of things to his attention, what should be do?

Should we just sit back and allow him to run the parish the way he wants. Including the liturgy and not following Church Laws pertaining to this sacrament?

If the chance should arise, should the bishop be notified or asked about it, in a reverent and humble way? (Of course I just blew that chance Tuesday I totally forgot to ask him).

Thanks again,

Katie
 
Thank you so much everyone for your replies. I guess the only other question I have then is, if the priest is one such as the one we have at our parish that is fighting parishners when they bring these sort of things to his attention, what should be do?

Should we just sit back and allow him to run the parish the way he wants. Including the liturgy and not following Church Laws pertaining to this sacrament?

If the chance should arise, should the bishop be notified or asked about it, in a reverent and humble way? (Of course I just blew that chance Tuesday I totally forgot to ask him).

Thanks again,

Katie
Redemptionis Sacrametum lists the following as grave matters:
. Grave Matters
[173.] Although the gravity of a matter is to be judged in accordance with the common teaching of the Church and the norms established by her, objectively to be considered among grave matters is anything that puts at risk the validity and dignity of the Most Holy Eucharist: namely, anything that contravenes what is set out above in nn. 48-52, 56, 76-77, 79, 91-92, 94, 96, 101-102, 104, 106, 109, 111, 115, 117, 126, 131-133, 138, 153 and 168. Moreover, attention should be given to the other prescriptions of the Code of Canon Law, and especially what is laid down by canons 1364, 1369, 1373, 1376, 1380, 1384, 1385, 1386, and 1398.
Number 117, regarding the materials for sacred vessels, is one of them. Here is the remedy prescribed:
  1. Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters
    [183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favoritism.
[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.290 It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.
I hope this helps.
 
Thank you so much everyone for your replies. I guess the only other question I have then is, if the priest is one such as the one we have at our parish that is fighting parishners when they bring these sort of things to his attention, what should be do?

Should we just sit back and allow him to run the parish the way he wants. Including the liturgy and not following Church Laws pertaining to this sacrament?

If the chance should arise, should the bishop be notified or asked about it, in a reverent and humble way? (Of course I just blew that chance Tuesday I totally forgot to ask him).

Thanks again,

Katie
Katie,
I would still bring it to your priest’s attention first. It is good to have the quotes available that benedictgal provided. If you bring up the subject in a charitable way and he still gets upset about it, that is his problem. But you would be doing the right thing by approaching him first before taking it any further.
 
I certainly “get” the idea that, well, maybe a really nice Waterford chalice would be acceptable…
Gold. Silver. In theory, carve it from a single very large diamond. 😃 But not ceramic, iron or steel, wood, or glass.
The chalices we have in our parish and our cathedral are made by the same artisan. They appear to be stainless steel, although I suppose they could be pewter. I’ve washed them enough to say they aren’t soft like the pewter I’ve encountered before. They are not lined with anything.

We used to use glass in my parish. I once broke one during washing and when reporting it to a sister I was told with clear annoyance that it was Waterford and very expensive to replace. Fortunately some more sympathetic EMHCs told me I wasn’t the first to break one. Thankfully when we had a change in priests the Waterford got put aside.
 
The chalices we have in our parish and our cathedral are made by the same artisan. They appear to be stainless steel, although I suppose they could be pewter. I’ve washed them enough to say they aren’t soft like the pewter I’ve encountered before. They are not lined with anything.

We used to use glass in my parish. I once broke one during washing and when reporting it to a sister I was told with clear annoyance that it was Waterford and very expensive to replace. Fortunately some more sympathetic EMHCs told me I wasn’t the first to break one. Thankfully when we had a change in priests the Waterford got put aside.
So, Waterford does break. That is interesting to know.
 
The rubrics in force do not REQUIRE metal, but do require a chalice to be all of the following:
  1. Non-porous material
  2. durable material (not gonna rot)
  3. non-fragile material (not easily broken)
  4. noble material
Those rubrics have been in force the entire time. Hence the reprobation on glass chalices; it violates #3.

Most wood violates #4, much wood violates #1 and #2, and some wood violates #3.

Clay violates 1,3, and 4.

RS makes it clear that #4 isn’t “artistic merit” alone but actual use of noble materials. Materials with intrinsic value.

for example:
A priest-theologian of my acquaintance obtained his bishop’s permission to continue using his Ebony chalice and patton after RS. It’s precious, as it’s real ebony wood, and that’s rare. It’s been coated with a non-porous non-alcohol-soluble resin, making it both non-porous and more durable. Ebony is actually rather durable as a wood by itself, and not terribly fragile. (I’ve seen it survive a fall from the creedence table). From a distance, this set looks like glass.

But I’ve also seen metal vessels damaged significantly by short drops. A silver with gold-plating ciborium was dropped a few feet, and cracked. Perhaps a bad batch of silver, not alloyed properly.
 
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