CFC

[SpiritMeadow]

I did not say they were a “paper” organization.

I stated that they are a political action organization funded by major pro-abortion groups.

**Well I’m not aware of any pro-abortion groups. I am aware that there are some pro-choice groups. You mean Rockefeller and Ford I take it? They would be quite interested I believe to be so designated. **

Because the USCCB states, “Catholics for a Free Choice merits no recognition or support as a Catholic organization”

They have been formally excommunicated by Bishop Bruskewitz of Nebraska, and their obstinate, public rejection of the doctrines of the Catholic faith incur latae sententiae excommunication.

Gotcha.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Well, you do that.

**You have no need to be perverse. YOu would condemn me had I not done any research correct? **

Here’s their website. And here is their statement of belief:

CFFC believes in and works toward the following principles:

• The right of individuals and couples to decide on when, whether and how they will form families;
• Women’s and men’s moral agency in reproductive health decisions, supported by access to the full range of contraceptive choices, safe and legal abortion, pre- and post-natal care and family supports;
• Support and respect, including treatment, prevention, and especially access to condoms, for people living with HIV/AIDS and those at risk;
• Social and economic justice that ensures that no one is denied sexual or reproductive health services because they cannot afford them;
• Equality for and non-discrimination against women in government, civil society, and all faith groups;
• Scientific and public policies that are determined by evidence-based research, democratic structures, and the common good;
• The right of faith groups to participate in public policy formation and the responsibility of policy makers to legislate without privileging sectarian religious beliefs;
• Freedom from all forms of intimate violence, including sexual abuse in the family, relationships, and the church;
• Respect for and recognition of gay, lesbian, bi and transgendered persons and relationships with all legal rights;

Yup, you are correct. That is their mission statement.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

So we have concluded that they are an organization that promotes free choice in all sexual matters including abortion. There is no proof that members are not Catholic. They do not, obviously agree with the Church on life issues. The USCCB I take on the poster’s word has stated they do not follow Church teaching on sexual life issues. They are supported financially by those who agree with them, much as ALL is no doubt supported financially by people and groups that support what they believe. Thanks for the information.

 

[1ke]

There is no proof that members are not Catholic.

Excommunicated = outside the Catholic Church.

The USCCB I take on the poster’s word has stated they do not follow Church teaching on sexual life issues.

No, they stated that they are NOT a Catholic organiation. From the USCCB, “Catholics for a Free Choice merits no recognition or support as a Catholic organization”

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Excommunicated = outside the Catholic Church.

Yes and that means exactly nothing as we all know. The organization doesnt go to church, and probably none of the members live in that particular archdiocese.

No, they stated that they are NOT a Catholic organiation. From the USCCB, “Catholics for a Free Choice merits no recognition or support as a Catholic organization”

You need not yell. I get your point. They do not carry any official sanction. No problem I never thought they did for very obvious reasons. To say they are not peopled with Catholics would perhaps be incorrect. YOu needn’t get so huffy. I’m just trying to be clear on what is fact, and what is inuendo.

 

[1ke]

You need not yell.

I was not yelling.

. I’m just trying to be clear on what is fact, and what is inuendo.

It is a fact that this group is under excommunication by Bishop Bruskewitz. It is a fact that heresy carries latae sententiae excommunication. It is a fact that the USCCB has declared this group to have no recognition as a Catholic organization.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

PFAW? You’re kidding me. That’s the pot calling the kettle black

Whether you rely on American Life League or not is irrelevant. You can research CFFC at their own website, you can research donation through the various charitable giving websites, and you can read at the USCCB website the Bishops’ condemnation of this group.

They are NOT a Catholic organization. They are a pro-abortion organization.

I don’t know what PFAW means. I continue to be confused why you think that having contributors who are associated in some way with pro-choice is a condemnnation. I would expect it. Surely you assume the same about ALL don’t you? It’s contributors are groups and organizations that favor pro-life issues?

Can we agree then that they are Catholics (we have no proof they are not) who have grouped together to form an organization that promotes free choice in life issues, most especially in abortion. Further that they are not condoned nor sanctioned by the Church. And that they have been excommunicated by Bishop Bruskewitz in Nebraska. They are of course encorped in Wash DC. Is this the same Bishop who threatens or does excommunicate CTA and various political figures ?

 

[1ke]

Can we agree then that they are Catholics (we have no proof they are not) who have grouped together to form an organization that promotes free choice in life issues, most especially in abortion.

No we cannot agree that they are Catholics. They are not.

Those members of the organization who were at one time baptized Catholics are now latae sententiae excommunicated former Catholics.

Is this the same Bishop who threatens or does excommunicate CTA and various political figures ?

Yes, that group is also under excommunication.

 

[foundthelight]

Can we agree then that they are Catholics (we have no proof they are not) who have grouped together to form an organization that promotes free choice in life issues, most especially in abortion.

I don’t mean to be rude, but you are being disingenuous. There may be people in this organization that claim to be Catholic. What they claim is meaningless. Any that make such a claim have separated themselves from the Church by their actions. That has been explained to you. Accept it. It is not a Catholic organization.

 

[wildleafblower]

I was wondering… is the “Catholics for Free-choice” organization a legitimate Catholic group? I don’t understand most of what they believe in (or why they even exist)- could someone clear up the CFC for me?

Hi Filius The problem with the CFFC (Catholics for a Free Choice) is that the National Conference of Catholic Bishops(NCCB) made a statement that you should read in it’s entirety. Here’s a snippet: “. . . As the Catholic Bishops of the United States have stated for many years, the use of the name Catholic as a platform for promoting the taking of innocent human life and ridiculing the Church is offensive not only to Catholics, but to all who expect honesty and forthrightness in public discourse. We state once again with the strongest emphasis: `Because of its opposition to the human rights of some of the most defenseless members of the human race, and because its purposes and activities deliberately contradict essential teachings of the Catholic faith,…Catholics for a Free Choice merits no recognition or support as a Catholic organization” (Administrative Committee, National Conference of Catholic Bishops, 1993)."
usccb.org/comm/archives/2000/00-123.shtml
http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2000/00-123.shtml

I should mention that I’ve heard people that were FreeMasons and Buddists, etc. claim to be Catholic. I’ve noticed they use the name as a platform for attacking the Church. I think they purposedly use the word Catholic to mean the universal church of Christ so that they can claim to be Christians. This is a mistake. The Vatican (Holy See) is the Universal Church of Jesus Christ.

I’m against abortion. I’ve seen quite a few women become messed up for years, ending up with with estranged relationships wheither it be with a husband or boyfriend. I have talked women out of aborting their unborn child. They were ever so grateful that they had listened to me in the end. Whatever the case, I can’t fathom a woman killing her own child. It cuts across the grain of logic and reason then again, pregnant women have been killed by a boyfriend or husband.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

… I continue to be confused why you think that having contributors who are associated in some way with pro-choice is a condemnnation…

condemnation is probably a poor choice of words, however the Church is clear and action which supports the act of abortion is a sin, any Catholic knowingly providing any support is considered not currently in communion with the church and is to refrain from celebration of the Eucharist until repenting

Can we agree then that they are Catholics (we have no proof they are not) who have grouped together to form an organization that promotes free choice in life issues, most especially in abortion.

at best they are Catholics who are currently outside the Church, not long ago it took individual approval of each person from a Bishop to allow them to return. Now most Priests are allowed to receive them back into the Church

 

[SpiritMeadow]

No we cannot agree that they are Catholics. They are not.

Those members of the organization who were at one time baptized Catholics are now latae sententiae excommunicated former Catholics.

**I see you have defined them all out of the church. Like I have said before, if we start making all those who don’t agree with all Church teaching not catholics there will be darn few Catholics at all. But I do see you position. The fact would be thus. The organization may have been set up by Catholics but they have all been summarily swept from the Church as no longer Catholic according to your definition. **

Yes, that group is also under excommunication.

Yes, I have read where he condemns a lot of folks, none of which he can identify as being within his diocese.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

condemnation is probably a poor choice of words, however the Church is clear and action which supports the act of abortion is a sin, any Catholic knowingly providing any support is considered not currently in communion with the church and is to refrain from celebration of the Eucharist until repenting at best they are Catholics who are currently outside the Church, not long ago it took individual approval of each person from a Bishop to allow them to return. Now most Priests are allowed to receive them back into the Church

Thanks I understand the dicotomy some are making here now. Of course such long distant/ unknown person excommunication makes little practical difference. But I do understand the point being made. My experience here at CAF suggests that the true Church would be a great deal smaller could all these less than true Catholics be eliminated from the Church. The American church would be cut down to less than 1/2 maybe more.

 

[1ke]

Thanks I understand the dicotomy some are making here now. Of course such long distant/ unknown person excommunication makes little practical difference. But I do understand the point being made. My experience here at CAF suggests that the true Church would be a great deal smaller could all these less than true Catholics be eliminated from the Church. The American church would be cut down to less than 1/2 maybe more.

It is not CAF posters who define what constitutes heresy or apostacy, nor the penalty for them.

The wonderful thing is, the Church is always open to those who repent of their errors and return to the Church through Reconciliation.

The purpose of excommunication is not to say “be gone” but to say “come back.”

 

[SpiritMeadow]

It is not CAF posters who define what constitutes heresy or apostacy, nor the penalty for them.

**One can only say Thank the Lord for that. **

The wonderful thing is, the Church is always open to those who repent of their errors and return to the Church through Reconciliation.

Indeed

The purpose of excommunication is not to say “be gone” but to say “come back.”

**A most honorable theory, but I suspect that 1) those who are “excommunicated” by being in a group, continue to go to Mass as they always have and 2) those that are personally excommunicated more often than not go elsewhere to experience Church. I would submit that neither is good, but I suspect both are more true than not. **

 

[jburgherr]

Thanks I understand the dicotomy some are making here now. Of course such long distant/ unknown person excommunication makes little practical difference. But I do understand the point being made. My experience here at CAF suggests that the true Church would be a great deal smaller could all these less than true Catholics be eliminated from the Church. The American church would be cut down to less than 1/2 maybe more.

(Joh 15:1) "I am the real vine, and my Father is the gardener.(Joh 15:2) He breaks off every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and he prunes every branch that does bear fruit, so that it will be clean and bear more fruit.If there is only two choices:

It would be better if 1/2 of the American Church leave the Catholic Church because of heretical belief than it would be to have Catholocism reverse its doctorine for the first time in 2000+ years.

Christ and Truth is the same yesterday, today and forever.

 

[Filius99993]

(Joh 15:1) "I am the real vine, and my Father is the gardener.(Joh 15:2) He breaks off every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and he prunes every branch that does bear fruit, so that it will be clean and bear more fruit.If there is only two choices:

It would be better if 1/2 of the American Church leave the Catholic Church because of heretical belief than it would be to have Catholocism reverse its doctorine for the first time in 2000+ years.

Christ and Truth is the same yesterday, today and forever.

There are more than TWO options.

Well, I mean, we shouldn’t just excommunicate all of them. It’d be better if we help educate those heretics. If we take the “pruning” method too literally, we’d be just like the Predestination-ists.(The exclusion part) Those lost need to be GUIDED back. We can’t just let them be damned because of our indifference…

 

[Mousey]

Well I’m not aware of any pro-abortion groups. I am aware that there are some pro-choice groups. You mean Rockefeller and Ford I take it? They would be quite interested I believe to be so designated.

Those who have promoted abortion have always played a word game of being pro choice labeling those who try to protect the most vulnerable as being anti choice. Choice of course denied to the human they kill. So you are not aware of any pro abortion group? That is rather disingenuous of you. It is only a word game. Planned Parenthood is a pro abortion group so is CFC. Choice is only an euphemism for abortion.

 

[jburgherr]

There are more than TWO options.

Well, I mean, we shouldn’t just excommunicate all of them. It’d be better if we help educate those heretics. If we take the “pruning” method too literally, we’d be just like the Predestination-ists.(The exclusion part) Those lost need to be GUIDED back. We can’t just let them be damned because of our indifference…

Quite true, however, the Catholic Church’s stance on abortion is more than well known. The only part of their ignorance could be if they didn’t understand the “whys”. If they refuse to listen, then…

Oh…and by the by…they excommunicate themselves!

 

[hasikelee]

There are more than TWO options.

Well, I mean, we shouldn’t just excommunicate all of them. It’d be better if we help educate those heretics. If we take the “pruning” method too literally, we’d be just like the Predestination-ists.(The exclusion part) Those lost need to be GUIDED back. We can’t just let them be damned because of our indifference…

It’s not because of our indifference. They made a strong, clear choice to intentionally support killing another human being. They did this despite strong, clear teachings from the faith they claim to be part of. And they continue to do this despite strong vocal opposition, warnings and advise.

I understand what you are saying, I really do. There are lots of people in my life that I try to be patient with and try to help instead of just saying “adios.”

Members of this organization are not such people. Personal experience enlightened me to the fact that many of them are not even remotely Catholic and that means not even baptized Catholic. It is a fraudulent group of people who are deliberately attempting to trick honest Catholics into supporting a bloody practice.