Challenges of the Cloistered Life

[Beautiful]

I’ve been wondering more and more. Does living a lifetime in a religous cloistered setting make oneself insensitive to real life? I’m thinking of men and women who have lived 40-50-60 years without out daily local news or world events or encounters with real people with real problems. I imagine that life within the walls must become as stagnate as too many sick days home in bed away from school or work.

I can see how 5, 10 or 20 years in a cloister might be spiritually beneficial. Wouldn’t more time than that make for someone who is just out of touch with reality? The only analogy I can think of is what happens to skin when covered by a bandage for any length of time – does not the skin lose its integrity? Doesn’t it get mushy, pale and grossly oversensitive? Don’t you want to keep it covered rather than have it live life like the rest of your skin?

 

[blessedstar]

I’ve been wondering more and more. Does living a lifetime in a religous cloistered setting make oneself insensitive to real life? I’m thinking of men and women who have lived 40-50-60 years without out daily local news or world events or encounters with real people with real problems. I imagine that life within the walls must become as stagnate as too many sick days home in bed away from school or work.

I can see how 5, 10 or 20 years in a cloister might be spiritually beneficial. Wouldn’t more time than that make for someone who is just out of touch with reality? The only analogy I can think of is what happens to skin when covered by a bandage for any length of time – does not the skin lose its integrity? Doesn’t it get mushy, pale and grossly oversensitive? Don’t you want to keep it covered rather than have it live life like the rest of your skin?

No it doesn’t make a person insensitive to real life.

In those cloistered convents there is as much real life going on there as is in the outside world. This is because people are there. Wherever there are people there is life to be encountered in many difficulties and there may be different kinds of difficulty but there is still a community and so there are still things to deal with in all reality.

If we think of reality it revolves around what we are familiar with. The reality for me is that I am sitting here typing to someone I don’t know on a forum which is a community of people meeting on the internet, I have a community in my spirituality, I also have work to do and children to teach which is another community, I also have a family who I love and many pressing concerns for them which is also another community. There is a world of reality in all of those communities.

I will say in only one loving word spoken, no matter what the community, there is an infinite love contained within it and so an infinite reality, the ultimate reality, Christ Jesus.

I was very sad to read in my Parish bulletin a moaning complaint about the recent beatifications of those martyrs of the faith. The person complaining was saying what does this have to do with married life or looking after children and why do all Saints have to be martyrs or religious. I was very saddened that this person had not seen the martyrdom of daily life in all the little things we do and translated these heroic Saint’s beatification to bring meaning to their 'pots and pans ’ of daily life. Rather they had seen fit to publish this rant and critise the Beatification process. This ‘red’ martyrdom serves to sanctify in prayer the ‘white’ martyrdom of our daily Living Prayer in all its smallness. To pray to these martyrs and ask for the intercession for the spirit of martyrdom in serving another even if it is to get up in the middle of the night when we are very tired to go to a crying child and find they had had a bad dream and settle them down again, then we will see our little acts are washed in the blood of these Saints and in the blood of Christ Jesus in Whom the courage do die for faith was found.

The greatest reality we can go into is to internally seek Christ Jesus whilst realising He is wholly other to us - we know we are not God!. This is not some escape from reality rather it serves to be a stark reminder of the reality of the world in which we live and by which we are sorely embroiled and tempted by and have internalised. In this deep voyage which the soul sets sail upon in prayer many rough seas are encountered.

There is as much life and reality behind those cloistered walls as are to be found outside of them.

Still the greatest and most wonderful reality in Christ is that wherever there are people so is the face of Christ and a world of love can be found in many small ways inside those convent walls. And love is the only thing that endures and is the reality and I say **the **reality and love is Christ Jesus.

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[catharina]

I’ve been wondering more and more. Does living a lifetime in a religous cloistered setting make oneself insensitive to real life? I’m thinking of men and women who have lived 40-50-60 years without out daily local news or world events or encounters with real people with real problems. I imagine that life within the walls must become as stagnate as too many sick days home in bed away from school or work.

I can see how 5, 10 or 20 years in a cloister might be spiritually beneficial. Wouldn’t more time than that make for someone who is just out of touch with reality? The only analogy I can think of is what happens to skin when covered by a bandage for any length of time – does not the skin lose its integrity? Doesn’t it get mushy, pale and grossly oversensitive? Don’t you want to keep it covered rather than have it live life like the rest of your skin?

Not knowing what would trigger your thought, I’ll do my best to answer with care. Life in a cloister is life lived in an entire world in miniature - with two specific differences: first, the common experience is at all times the worship of God; and second, one is at the mercy of God for any and all daily companionship.

It’s not like joining a social club and tiring of the other members, you move on to a more interesting group. More lives lived in cloister are stable to that setting for life. Also, work is done in common and by all, whether stringent and taxing such as farming or making goods for sale, or similarly the accomplishment of the common work that keeps a cloistered community going in a way that’s similar to family life - cooking, dishes, laundry sewing, cleaning house, the usual. One suffers the usual losses and temptations. Losing companions to death when they have been a part of one’s daily life for decades is a loss indeed. Bearing with one another in the sufferings of every kind of illness and even spiritual dryness is a full load too. As for the news of the world, the Superiors inform the communities of specific needs for prayers such as catastrophes within the world. At all times one has sacrificed one’s closest and most personal relationships of the past - both families and friends. My own imagination tells me that the experience never becomes “easy” or wasteful for anyone.

 

[puzzleannie]

cloistered life is real life.

a vowed religious in this life has all the demands of living in community, negotiating interpersonal relationships and conflicts, with the same sorts of issues that crop up in any family or communal living setting.

Such members spend a big part of their day in the same sorts of work people do on the “outside” whether it is office, computer, technology, or farming and other manual labor, as well as of course housekeeping and maintenance tasks, and care of the sick and elderly.

true such residents have the benefit of more structured time devoted to prayer and silence, respected by those they live with who share their commitment, but nonetheless, there is nothing unreal or surreal about this life. They battle temptations as everyone does, look for chances to exhibit charity as anyone does, and even have temptations and challenges usually not faced by those “in the world.”

 

[Beautiful]

Catharina and Blessedstar,

I understand you perspectives and thoughts and agree. My concern is what can happen over the long haul. Wouldn’t lack of opportunity for stimulation and change cause stagnancy?

As Blessestar pointed out we (outside cloisters or any closure) have community life at different levels – family- neighbors – community – work. I know that even with our seemingly wide variety of communities and opportunities we are prone to stagnation or complacency. The biggest difference I see between us and them (cloistered) is autonomy and opportunity on a realistic level. Cloistered life just doesn’t seem real.

I must give credit to some more creative cloisters that might be able to wring out reality in day to day living but for some reason I imagine that for the most part cloistered life is a faster and more slippery slope to complacency and stagnation.

The more I talk about it - I see that could happen to anyone anywhere. How many old and young religious, marrieds or singles are out there just plodding along clueless and out of touch with life and God’s call for them?

I guess that we are all called to and challenged to bend and stretch – cloistered or not. No one is immune from stagnation or complacency. The choice to grow in Christ is ours wherever we may be.

 

[blessedstar]

Catharina and Blessedstar,

I understand you perspectives and thoughts and agree. My concern is what can happen over the long haul. Wouldn’t lack of opportunity for stimulation and change cause stagnancy?

As Blessestar pointed out we (outside cloisters or any closure) have community life at different levels – family- neighbors – community – work. I know that even with our seemingly wide variety of communities and opportunities we are prone to stagnation or complacency. The biggest difference I see between us and them (cloistered) is autonomy and opportunity on a realistic level. Cloistered life just doesn’t seem real.

I must give credit to some more creative cloisters that might be able to wring out reality in day to day living but for some reason I imagine that for the most part cloistered life is a faster and more slippery slope to complacency and stagnation.

The more I talk about it - I see that could happen to anyone anywhere. How many old and young religious, marrieds or singles are out there just plodding along clueless and out of touch with life and God’s call for them?

I guess that we are all called to and challenged to bend and stretch – cloistered or not. No one is immune from stagnation or complacency. The choice to grow in Christ is ours wherever we may be.

Yes I understand now the point you are driving at. Your point is a good one.

This is the point of having a good superior to keep the whole on track.

You know, part of me has to consider the ‘abstraction’ of such a closed community and this would easily occur if it were not for the fact that God is Present in that community. But I cannot eradicate that souls become abstracted in the ‘pride of the imagination of their hearts’ (Magnificat of our Lady) and this is where community can correct each other and a good Orthodox Spiritual Director can redirect such souls as well as a good and kindly Confessor. To be cloistered and unchecked would be to risk straying ito areas that are not of God and so in the Rule of each community there must be safeguards and endorsement by Papal Bull. The Rule must be paramount.

Such communities are not to become ‘cult’ like, cutting off all that is other than them, this is not the route Jesus of Nazareth took, seeking out those other to Himself and eating and drinking with them.

Community is therefore vital so no-one is left to their own devices and strays off into less than reality, also a good Confessor and Spiritual Director. This will keep the soul firmly in touch with reality an this reality is Christ Jesus and inspire in the soul greater love of others and a desire to dedicate one’s whole life to prayer for the salvation of souls.

You have raised a good point and you must keep on asking questions. I am sorry I didn’t grasp at first what you were saying, I think I have grasped it now, but if not come back and tell me more.

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[Beautiful]

Thanks to all for understanding and replying. :byzsoc:

 

[BarbaraTherese]

The thing about a cloistered life and reality is that firstly one cannot run from oneself into distractions like tennis clubs, social clubs etc. etc. Secondly, one cannot run from others and hence all relationship problems need to be faced and worked through…there is no running from them. Hence life in a cloister confronts one with realities that one cannot run from nor be distracted from. These are realities we have means of ‘dodging’ out here. In many ways what we call reality out here, is a constructed ‘reality’ and way of adjusting to reality, including avoidance of.
The other thing is that and especially nowadays cloistered nuns are very well informed indeed…the ones I know of well watch the evening television news as part of their recreation and intentions at prayer time are formed from what they have seen on this news, at least in part. Also, all the news from the outside comes into the cloister through the parlour where it is discussed and these discussions may continue into the nuns’ recreation time. Contemplative nuns (no personal experience with priests and brothers) are outstandingly well informed with quite mature and informed opinions on what is taking place here on the outside. Many of the books in their library too are on subjects that we are confronting out here. Thomas Merton wrote something* very* important while he was alive addressed to contemplative communities “the need to share the fruit of their contemplation in the parlour”.

Rather than running from reality, it can well be said that cloistered nuns and priests, brothers, must confront reality as we do not have to out here. We have distractions and interests or we can even run from those that we find difficult. In very many ways our so called reality out here…has often little to do with reality - rather with avoiding it. Rather than become stale and stagnant enclosed living keeps one decidely alert and ‘on the toes’.

The whole begs a question: “What IS reality?” and this also begs the larger question: “What IS Reality? or the Ultimate Reality to which all reality points and is travelling towards?”…and in order to get reality (and hence life and the living of it) into its true context we do need to face the latter second bigger question.

As well as the Rule and the community’s superior and the Confessor in a monastic situation, there is the yearly visit by the Bishop where all on the cloister are interviewed privately by His Grace, including postulants. This 12 monthly visit is mandatory.
These do tend to keep things on track…reality checks, if you like.

The other matter that needs to be considered is that reality has very many faces. Out here, there is the reality that say a lay missionary in an impoverished and war torn country must face in a refugee camp…and totally different from our reality of daily life in the west. Both are aspects of reality…and cloistered living is simply another aspect of the huge question of reality and what exactly it is. Cloister is about a life lived with and for God alone and ‘connecting’ to the Reality of God Who is Ultimate Reality through prayer and contemplation…are there exceptions to all the above - yes, there are of course and some religious and contemplative religious are somewhat or even totally ‘lost’ as to what their life is all about both actually and ideally…these do tend, however, to prove the rule which is the majority of cases. The same of course applies out here…lots of lost people out here in so called ‘reality’.

Blessings - Barb

 

[puzzleannie]

. The biggest difference I see between us and them (cloistered) is autonomy and opportunity on a realistic level. Cloistered life just doesn’t seem real.

I must give credit to some more creative cloisters that might be able to wring out reality in day to day living but for some reason I imagine that for the most part cloistered life is a faster and more slippery slope to complacency and stagnation.
.

I think you need a real education in the nature of the vocation to consecrated religious life, particularly the vocation to the contemplative cloistered life, and a “reality check” as it were, if you persist in your insistence that this is somehow not “real life.” What it “seems” to you is not the reality, it is just your subjective reaction to the notion of living this way. Communities do not “wring out some reality” they live, as has been stated repeatedly, real life as it exists on this planet.

For complacency and stagnation you don’t have to look further than a loveless marriage and disinterested parents focused more on making money than in raising their children, or the hard-driving businessman who has forsaken all virtue in pursuit of success, or the politician who has sold out on his faith long ago, but cynically parades his religious affiliation in his campaign literature.

 

[Beautiful]

Your point is a good one.

This is the point of having a good superior to keep the whole on track.

To be cloistered and unchecked would be to risk straying ito areas that are not of God and so in the Rule of each community there must be safeguards and endorsement by Papal Bull. The Rule must be paramount.

Such communities are not to become ‘cult’ like, cutting off all that is other than them, this is not the route Jesus of Nazareth took, seeking out those other to Himself and eating and drinking with them.

Community is therefore vital so no-one is left to their own devices and strays off into less than reality, also a good Confessor and Spiritual Director. This will keep the soul firmly in touch with reality an this reality is Christ Jesus and inspire in the soul greater love of others and a desire to dedicate one’s whole life to prayer for the salvation of souls.

You have raised a good point and you must keep on asking questions.

Thanks for understanding. I agree. A good superior is vital to the health of any cloistered community. Without good spiritual guidance a community could become stagnant or equally as bad - stray from imitating Christ.

This concern is one everyone can relate to - in or out of cloister.

It just seems to me that a person that has been in a cloistered community for a very long time does not have as many opportunities to sensory stimuli or situations to jar them out of complacency as someone outside of cloister - that is - in the event spiritual director isn’t doing his or her job. Also - after years of routine and shelter one might lack imagination or means to try something new and positively progessive. Anyway - I think that is the one downside of cloister living.

 

[Beautiful]

For complacency and stagnation you don’t have to look further than a loveless marriage and disinterested parents focused more on making money than in raising their children, or the hard-driving businessman who has forsaken all virtue in pursuit of success, or the politician who has sold out on his faith long ago, but cynically parades his religious affiliation in his campaign literature.

Those in a loveless marriage have the shock of an extramarital relationship to jar them awake.

Disinterested parents might have a policeman knock on the door some night to tell them their kid is in jail.

The crooked businessman can only hope he isn’t caught and lose his reputation or worse yet be sued or sent to jail.

The politician (and we have seen this time and again) is at the mercy of what the next muckrakers will dig up. It is par for the course.

You and I could both be housebound paraplegics home tapping away at this conversation and still have opportunity to grow because we are stimulating each other’s minds and hearts.

There is no such freedom and stimuli in cloister living. After a long while all might be closed in and stagnant. As previously mentioned -

Jesus sought out those other to Himself and eating and drinking with them

.

What is there for a cloistered monk or nun who has fallen through the cracks and is just wasting away till death comes because there is nothing to stop complacency and stagnation in the event there isn’t a good spiritual director? I’d say it is very safe to say there can’t always be a stellar superior in every cloistered community.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Those in a loveless marriage have the shock of an extramarital relationship to jar them awake.

Disinterested parents might have a policeman knock on the door some night to tell them their kid is in jail.

The crooked businessman can only hope he isn’t caught and lose his reputation or worse yet be sued or sent to jail.

The politician (and we have seen this time and again) is at the mercy of what the next muckrakers will dig up. It is par for the course.

You and I could both be housebound paraplegics home tapping away at this conversation and still have opportunity to grow because we are stimulating each other’s minds and hearts.

There is no such freedom and stimuli in cloister living. After a long while all might be closed in and stagnant. As previously mentioned - .

What is there for a cloistered monk or nun who has fallen through the cracks and is just wasting away till death comes because there is nothing to stop complacency and stagnation in the event there isn’t a good spiritual director? I’d say it is very safe to say there can’t always be a stellar superior in every cloistered community.

Hi there B …I think probably what is happening is that you are confining reality to as it is in daily life outside of the cloister and defining that as the only valid reality. Reality is a many sided coin indeed…and the reality in the cloister is simply very different from that here on the outside and is just another facet of the many sided coin of reality…and remains an aspect of reality.
If a monk or nun feels that his/her life on the cloister has fallen through cracks as you have put it, he/she can always ask for what is known as an “extraordinary spiritual director” and a priest who is not the usual cloister spiritual director. You are correct, sometimes the biggest burden in community life can be one’s superior and one just has to weather that storm and an aspect of the reality of community living under a superior.
If a monk or nun is stagnating and complacent with it all, the fault remains their own and nothing to do with the life itself…else every single monk and nun would be in the same boat. The first step in dealing with a problem is to identify it and it remains the problem of the said monk or nun to identify that they do indeed have a problem, unless someone or the whole community wakes up that they do and comes to their rescue. Once the problem is identified as stagnation and complacency there are ways of facing and dealing with that problem in a particular nun or monk.
Do people fall through cracks and stay there…yes they do as they do on the outside here. For example I could identify in myself that in the practise of my Faith I am stagnant and complacent…this does not mean there is a problem with the Catholic Faith itself:thumbsup: …rather my stagnation and complacency has come about through my own attitudes.

Barb

 

[Beautiful]

Hi there B …I think probably what is happening is that you are confining reality to as it is in daily life outside of the cloister and defining that as the only valid reality. Reality is a many sided coin indeed…and the reality in the cloister is simply very different from that here on the outside and is just another facet of the many sided coin of reality…and remains an aspect of reality.
If a monk or nun feels that his/her life on the cloister has fallen through cracks as you have put it, he/she can always ask for what is known as an “extraordinary spiritual director” and a priest who is not the usual cloister spiritual director. You are correct, sometimes the biggest burden in community life can be one’s superior and one just has to weather that storm and an aspect of the reality of community living under a superior.
If a monk or nun is stagnating and complacent with it all, the fault remains their own and nothing to do with the life itself…else every single monk and nun would be in the same boat. The first step in dealing with a problem is to identify it and it remains the problem of the said monk or nun to identify that they do indeed have a problem, unless someone or the whole community wakes up that they do and comes to their rescue. Once the problem is identified as stagnation and complacency there are ways of facing and dealing with that problem in a particular nun or monk.
Do people fall through cracks and stay there…yes they do as they do on the outside here. For example I could identify in myself that in the practise of my Faith I am stagnant and complacent…this does not mean there is a problem with the Catholic Faith itself:thumbsup: …rather my stagnation and complacency has come about through my own attitudes.

Barb

I’m glad to know that an extraordinary spiritual director can be called upon.

Thanks for combing this one back and forth till my thoughts were smoothened.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I’m glad to know that an extraordinary spiritual director can be called upon.

Thanks for combing this one back and forth till my thoughts were smoothened.

… …I hope that my words have helped in some way…I can truly appreciate that an outsider looking in has a different perspective from actually being ‘inside’ and living the life - it is a real mystery often to those looking in from the outside and even a bit scarey and it seems a strange way indeed to pass one’s days. I had the same reaction once when it was first suggested I enter enclosed monastic life…I did have a short period in strictly enclosed (very strict!)monastic life and have a few monastic nun friends so my perspective is a little different. Actually they probably know more about what is happening in the world with a more informed opinion on current affairs than I do. Certainly I have very rarely met a monastic nun (no experience of monastic priests/brothers) who was immature and ‘stale’. They are a pretty lively and informed bunch, empathic and understanding and very honest and open - to my experience. There are those that can truly try the virtue and the patience and I burst out laughing to read in a Papal document on “Fraternal Life and Community” that difficult community members are sent by God to refine virtue and one should appreciate them. Obviously written by a non monastic with no experience of the trying members in a very strictly enclosed setting. Such members do also keep one entirely alert and alive, and sometimes even ‘on the run’/focus re monastic observances and kept to the letter.
Recreation in a monastic setting was a wondrous experience for me and I loved just to be quiet and listen to the hum of conversation and tinkling of laughter and joy. The younger novices and nuns often played volleyball and with as much as a fiercly competitive spirit as any.
The sufferings inside a cloister can be different too…especially if a family member is seriously ill, dying or passes away and the monastic cannot be at their side at such times. The whole community in empathy feels this suffering of one of their own.
As I said, it is a different aspect of reality, which is a question still the ‘experts and intellectuals’ debate as to what exactly reality is.

Blessings - Barb

 

[jssaxon]

What could be more real than living continuously with a bunch of other flawed men or women for many, many, many, many years? You definately would experience conflicts, turmoil, anger, rage, murderous thoughts, feelings of being trapped, cornered, controlled, emotionally tortured, etc.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

What could be more real than living continuously with a bunch of other flawed men or women for many, many, many, many years? You definately would experience conflicts, turmoil, anger, rage, murderous thoughts, feelings of being trapped, cornered, controlled, emotionally tortured, etc.

…mmmm that sure sounds scarey!

 

[KCT]

The cloister is their real life. That’s the point. —KCT

 

[Dale_M]

You definately would experience conflicts, turmoil, anger, rage, murderous thoughts, feelings of being trapped, cornered, controlled, emotionally tortured, etc.

I have never lived as a monastic, but Br. Jerome Leo (of St Mary’s Monastery, in Petersham, Massachusetts, USA) frequently brings the topic up in his discussion of the daily reading from the Rule of Saint Benedict. One image he mentions is that the monks are like group of rocks in a tumbler. Bouncing up against one another, being washed constantly, having irritants slowly chafing away their rough edges.

Another Benedictine monk, quoted by Kathleen Norris in her book: Dakota: A Spiritual Geography, is more blunt: “Living in community is all the asceticism you need.” I don’t doubt that!

BTW, Br. Jerome Leo’s commentary is distributed to a number of Yahoo groups. If anyone wants to read them, here is one group with public messages: groups.yahoo.com/group/holyrule/

 

[catharina]

Dale M - what a beautiful link. Can’t thank you enough!

 

[Beautiful]

One image he mentions is that the monks are like group of rocks in a tumbler. Bouncing up against one another, being washed constantly, having irritants slowly chafing away their rough edges.

Interesting.
Think about this. Unless you are as hard as a diamond which is impervious to erosion you eventually will be reduced to grit if in the tumbler for too long. This is my original point. The long haul is likely to reduce one to mush. Or using your analogy - grit.
Rock tumblers are made to be used for set periods of time called steps. If the steps are followed correctly a beautiful polished stone is produced. If the steps are not followed then the rocks are reduced to sand or grit.
A polished stone is meant to be removed from the tumbler and appreciated. If it remains inside then it never has a chance to be.