Change of heart on socialized medicine

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I have done my fair share of physical labor until my boss said I would be more helpful in more intellectual pursuits. Every dollar I have earned I earned through my own labor. Most of which I have given away. There are millions of needy in this country and billions around the world. I d believer I can be of more help by giving the money directly to the truly needy instead of giving it to a government bureaucracy.
First. Good you give that is good, but why do you hide it? Second As I had driven into me as a child I will continue to see labor as something physical, if it’s not physical it’s not labor. You have defended office politics in another thread, which is defending the aquiring of wages through means other than work. Iv’e been victim of office politic enough to know how evil it is.
 
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Yes, as catholic/christian people we should rejoice in knowing that MY/OUR taxes are helping others survive and getting good medical care. Also knowing when I go to bed, I KNOW that anyone who shows up at his doctor’s or the hospital will be taken care no matter the condition suffered or the amount of money one owns…

This makes me feel good…no matter the taxes…🤷
Just to play this game out:.

If there is a common pool of money and everyone pays in everything they have but there still isn’t enough to cover all of the medical bills, then what?

How is it fair that one person works sixty hour weeks in a high stress job and can not see their family. while a person who does no work, who sits around socializing can leach off the labor of the worker?

Is it fair that one of my relatives or neighbors has to loose meals that I would have provided to them becuse someone else wants free abortions?
 
First. Good you give that is good, but why do you hide it? Second As I had driven into me as a child I will continue to see labor as something physical, if it’s not physical it’s not labor. You have defended office politics in another thread, which is defending the aquiring of wages through means other than work. Iv’e been victim of office politic enough to know how evil it is.
I don’t give to get credit.

Would you consider the person who pushes buttons on a CNC machine to be doing “labor”?

Office politics are on a variety of levels and could have good aspects for instance building a coalition of coworkers who support a buisness solution so that you can better lobby for it to the boss. For instance my current push for a four day work week. The reason I was deffending it on the other thread is because leading a charge to get a coalition to support a buiness case shows leadership and can help you move up the chain.
 
  1. What is a business fanatic anyway?
  2. I am not in management,
  3. My job is not that cushy.
  4. We live in a moderate priced home and have not gotten a new car in a decade in a half. so the pay is not too cushy.
    So you better work on your people reading skills.
As defined by you.
The most expensive car Iv’e ever owned is a 2000 dollar car. Most of my cars have been 500 dollar cars, while I’m not complaining about that sounds cushy compared to me. The last person related to me to buy a new car was a grandfather in 1985, and that was an Olds not a Caddy. I live in a 60,000 dollar home. You are the business fanatic You give the impression that business can do no wrong. You give the impression that the business has to survive even at the cost of real human concerns. The likes of a Pathia can die or worse yet live in agony, but as long as the business survives thats whats important. If you are so anti governemnt why do you defend an entity( even with personhood by some definitions) that was created by the governemtent. Business liscenses are required by governemnt! Whether you want to admit to it or not you are part of the Hegelian dielectic of conflict to achieve the new world order anyway. At least I’m defending the right for one not to have their humanity taken away from them.
 
For the record I support absolutely nothing that pays for abortions whatso ever. I support no one who is for abortions whatsoever. I only support my own point of view. Someone hinted here that I support abortions, so I had to answer accordingly. My view that the rights of the unborn supercedes the right of the born, when they are in direct conflict stands.
 
I don’t give to get credit.

Would you consider the person who pushes buttons on a CNC machine to be doing “labor”?

Office politics are on a variety of levels and could have good aspects for instance building a coalition of coworkers who support a buisness solution so that you can better lobby for it to the boss. For instance my current push for a four day work week. The reason I was deffending it on the other thread is because leading a charge to get a coalition to support a buiness case shows leadership and can help you move up the chain.
No. Although if they did it in bad conditions like etreme temperatures or other bad conditions, I’d say they are earning their money.
 
For the record I support absolutely nothing that pays for abortions whatso ever. I support no one who is for abortions whatsoever. I only support my own point of view. Someone hinted here that I support abortions, so I had to answer accordingly. My view that the rights of the unborn supercedes the right of the born, when they are in direct conflict stands.
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Ye. Pathia just wants the government to hold back my wages to pay for those who can’t pay for themselves.
When have I demanded socialized medicine? I am all for private market, in fact the country I’m likely to move to, to get out of this rut this country forces on me, uses a public market.
How is it fair that one person works sixty hour weeks in a high stress job and can not see their family. while a person who does no work, who sits around socializing can leach off the labor of the worker?
I work despite being in constant pain every moment of my life. Comparing labors is like apples and oranges. Just being awake and conscious involves sometimes excruciating pain that no medicine has ever stopped, I live with it every day of my life and I am sure I am not t he only one who still forges ahead and works despite it.
 
As defined by you.
The most expensive car Iv’e ever owned is a 2000 dollar car. Most of my cars have been 500 dollar cars, while I’m not complaining about that sounds cushy compared to me. The last person related to me to buy a new car was a grandfather in 1985, and that was an Olds not a Caddy. I live in a 60,000 dollar home. You are the business fanatic You give the impression that business can do no wrong. You give the impression that the business has to survive even at the cost of real human concerns. The likes of a Pathia can die or worse yet live in agony, but as long as the business survives thats whats important. If you are so anti governemnt why do you defend an entity( even with personhood by some definitions) that was created by the governemtent. Business liscenses are required by governemnt! Whether you want to admit to it or not you are part of the Hegelian dielectic of conflict to achieve the new world order anyway. At least I’m defending the right for one not to have their humanity taken away from them.
New world order??? been watching the conspiracy channel again?

a buisness is nothing more than personal resources put to use to generate new resources. Yes I am for the generation for new resources. I do not feel business can do no wrong, in fact I support the failure of any business that does not opperate in a productive manner unlike the current administration which is using our money, that could be helping people, to bail out big business that have failed. Business licensing is not the government creating businesses.
 
For the record I support absolutely nothing that pays for abortions whatso ever. I support no one who is for abortions whatsoever. I only support my own point of view. Someone hinted here that I support abortions, so I had to answer accordingly. My view that the rights of the unborn supercedes the right of the born, when they are in direct conflict stands.
So Then you are against Obamas health care nationalisation plan right?
 
Just to play this game out:.

If there is a common pool of money and everyone pays in everything they have but there still isn’t enough to cover all of the medical bills, then what?
If the majority of money is concentrated in the top 15% of citizens, and medical costs continue to go up and the coverage of insurance companies go down. As premiums rise and businesses keep moving positions to other nations, then what?
How is it fair that one person works sixty hour weeks in a high stress job and can not see their family. while a person who does no work, who sits around socializing can leach off the labor of the worker?
The question you need to be asking is: How is it fair that one person works sixty hour weeks in a high stress job and can not see their family, and still not be able to provide them with the healthcare they need?
Is it fair that one of my relatives or neighbors has to loose meals that I would have provided to them becuse someone else wants free abortions?
Do they feel that it is more fair that most insurance companies used right now also funds abortions, but don’t give good coverage to millions of Americans? While there is a loophole that could allow for abortions to be funded under Obama’s plan, if your relatives have insurance their money is already funding them, and not through a loophole. That said you are right the Obama plan needs to be shored up.
 
aspawlowski4th,

My money is not more important than preventing pathia from dying, but my rights to my money are. I have my rights, and those should not be taken away because some people do not have good health insurance. I do not agree with having my money taken away under threat of jail to provide for every person who doesn’t have good health insurance, whether or not it is their fault. I can not agreed with taking away every worker’s right to the money they earned (whether or not you agree with the fact they have earned it, they have because someone feels they are worth the money) to provide for these people. If I get my health care (and food for that matter) paid for by everyone else, why should I work?
 
. I can not agreed with taking away every worker’s right to the money they earned (whether or not you agree with the fact they have earned it, they have because someone feels they are worth the money) to provide for these people. If I get my health care (and food for that matter) paid for by everyone else, why should I work?
I work. I will continue to work if I can get health care, but I cannot provide myself with coverage, because the free market refuses to sell me a plan that I can afford. The most basic plan I could possibly get would involve taking over $18,000, over 50% of my income BEFORE taxes, out off my pocket every year before an insurance company pays a DIME.

Does that sound like an investment you would make? Does it sound like a wise move? Something that would benefit me?
 
aspawlowski4th,

My money is not more important than preventing pathia from dying, but my rights to my money are. I have my rights, and those should not be taken away because some people do not have good health insurance. I do not agree with having my money taken away under threat of jail to provide for every person who doesn’t have good health insurance, whether or not it is their fault. I can not agreed with taking away every worker’s right to the money they earned (whether or not you agree with the fact they have earned it, they have because someone feels they are worth the money) to provide for these people. If I get my health care (and food for that matter) paid for by everyone else, why should I work?
Hmm , are all you are interested in getting with the money you earn is what you need??? I thought I was debating a humanbeing here. If I had food and health care given me on a silver platter, I’d continue to work, because I want a vacation or 2 a year, I want to tend to my antique radio hobby, in suuroundings that seem overly physical oriented Id got nut without the intellectualism of the internet, I’d like to get my wife her favorite cake for her birthday seeing I don’t bake very well. Without those I’m no more human than the wild animals one sees on the tv show Wild Kingdom.
 
aspawlowski4th,

My money is not more important than preventing pathia from dying, but my rights to my money are. I have my rights, and those should not be taken away because some people do not have good health insurance. I do not agree with having my money taken away under threat of jail to provide for every person who doesn’t have good health insurance, whether or not it is their fault. I can not agreed with taking away every worker’s right to the money they earned (whether or not you agree with the fact they have earned it, they have because someone feels they are worth the money) to provide for these people. If I get my health care (and food for that matter) paid for by everyone else, why should I work?
This is truly tragic.

No your “rights” to your money are not more important than Pathia’s life.

If you’re really concerned about the tired argument of your last sentence then go ask anyone living in Europe, Taiwan, or Japan why they keep working? Perhaps you would just stop contributing if you had to help those less fortunate than yourself, but don’t speak for the rest of us.
 
One aspect of these type of debates that I have a widely divergent love/hate relationship with is we really find out how individual people define the word need in reference to humanity. From I have that no matter the language the word needs has more definitions than anyother word in mankind’s vocabulary, because every single human’s definition of need and list of what they would consider to be needs is unique, and not duplicated by any other human in Earth. I was raised with the extreme, that all one needs is what enough to keep the blood flowing through the body and anything else is just a want. In me my parents didn’t get that result in me as an adult. Ive come to realize that any part of the human’s system whether it is physical or non physical is working well, there are big problems.
The big thing disturbing me with these type of debates isespecially from the probusiness side of the issue, there is a survival of the fitest mentality sneeking in through the backdoor. Pathia can’t earn money because she is sick, she can’t get to not being sick because she can’t earn enough money. All the business type here say is too bad so sad. which defactowise amounts to survival of the fittest which couldn’t be any further from being Catholic or Christian, or even Jewish for that matter than any other attitude under the sun. I am not a socialist, but I’m Catholic before anything else. I am also a student of history especially behind the scenes history. The conservative side of the health care issue debates this from an idealogue, non pragmatic point of view. Right now most of the world with the exception of Lithuania and Switzerland have floating currancies. Lithainaia’s currency and Switzerland’s currancy are backed by gold. Ervery other currecy on this Earth is backed by nothing more thann how the insiders manipulate it, ie Rockefeller, Rothschild, etc ,etc. I dont remeber all the insider names anymore, but I imagine Habsberg might still be a part of it. I say with a floating currecy, float it baby! Since the fall of the Roman empire proves floating currecies will not last indefinitely, meaning the limit to how long ours will last is not forever. With the current floating currecy system the insiders have a lot to loose if it collapses, so they will keep minipulating it to keep themselves from going under along with the rest of us. I say the rest of us should get some “goodies” too in the meantime. Whether or not more money is printed, whether we spend big or spend small, ithe current money system is going to collapse sooner or later. I say get what we can out of it while we can. If we save some lives in the process we have done some good with a bad situation. In the process the floating currency people will have been proven wrong again and us who believe in backinng money with something of value like gold will be proven correct again!
 
You guys are ignoring most of what I say. You pick out the one or two lines you don’t like, and then ignore the rest. I don’t want the government being able to take my money to give to people who don’t have enough, because they don’t distinguish between who is trying to support themselves and who isn’t. It’s a bad situation, but government interference won’t fix it. I have the right to do with my money what I want to. It is MY money. It should not be up to you to decide what I do with MY money. I can agree with taxes that help everyone (i.e. for roads, for the military), those are for everyone. This is only for people who don’t make enough. If you go to college, get a degree, and get a good job then you have to pay for others who don’t, or can’t. Pathia makes more than the level to receive aid. My suggestion would be to stop working so much for pay so that these charities and the government will help, and then volunteer the rest of the time. And I know people who do this. There are avenues, but you need to take them, not demand more.
 
Pathia makes more than the level to receive aid. My suggestion would be to stop working so much for pay so that these charities and the government will help, and then volunteer the rest of the time. And I know people who do this. There are avenues, but you need to take them, not demand more.
You have to prove you cannot work more than you are to receive aid, I obviously would be capable of working more, as they could just look at my previous working history. It’s not nearly as simple as you seem to think.
 
If the majority of money is concentrated in the top 15% of citizens, and medical costs continue to go up and the coverage of insurance companies go down. As premiums rise and businesses keep moving positions to other nations, then what?.
money is only as good as what people are willing to give for it. It is also just a means of facilitating commerce. Lets say that top 15% burned all of their money, it wouldn’t make a bit of difference. There is nothing stopping people from tradding goods and services with out exchanging money.
The question you need to be asking is: How is it fair that one person works sixty hour weeks in a high stress job and can not see their family, and still not be able to provide them with the healthcare they need?.
I normally hate to bring up the cliche of working smarter not harder but this situation makes that cliche relevant. If someone is working that hard, and not able to make a decent living they are not being smart about how they work. Either they are doing something they really aren’t god at or they are doing something that is not viewed as very valueable or they are not beign wise about their negotiations with their employer. If you know someone in such a situation you may need to get them some career counceling.
Do they feel that it is more fair that most insurance companies used right now also funds abortions, but don’t give good coverage to millions of Americans? While there is a loophole that could allow for abortions to be funded under Obama’s plan, if your relatives have insurance their money is already funding them, and not through a loophole. That said you are right the Obama plan needs to be shored up.
You are side stepping the point. If I earn the money, shouldn’t I have a say in which charity I give it to?
 
I work. I will continue to work if I can get health care, but I cannot provide myself with coverage, because the free market refuses to sell me a plan that I can afford. The most basic plan I could possibly get would involve taking over $18,000, over 50% of my income BEFORE taxes, out off my pocket every year before an insurance company pays a DIME.

Does that sound like an investment you would make? Does it sound like a wise move? Something that would benefit me?
Your situation is very unique. If we only had to fund the extreme cases like yours, this would not be an issue; current charity would be more than addequate to cover all of your expenses. Unfortuantely your screams are being drowned out by the whining millions who are using the safety nets as hammocks.
 
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