Change of heart on socialized medicine

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royal_archer said:
Rowe vs Wade proved that a court could find loop holes in the constitution to justify murder of innocent people.

Now are you talking about avoiding cumbersome procedures and parralysis by annalysis or are you talking about sacrificing ethics, morality, etc in order to achieve results?
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Define your results that you are after in very specific terms, with what you want and dont want, then do it.
 
royal_archer said:
Isn’t that how robbers, murders, and rapist think?
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I don’t know, I’m not one of them. Put it this way. If your house is on fire, do you want the firefighters himming and hawing on how to rescue, or do you want them tyo do their job and just do as best as they can? If they deliniate over it you can burn up while they are deciding how to do it.
 
aspawloski4th said:
I don’t know, I’m not one of them. Put it this way. If your house is on fire, do you want the firefighters himming and hawing on how to rescue, or do you want them tyo do their job and just do as best as they can? If they deliniate over it you can burn up while they are deciding how to do it.
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So if their first thought is to bulldoze the house is that OK?

I agree that one should consider the cost of delays as compared to the potential bennefit of delays. But that is not the intent of the tread, the intent of the thread is a discussion of the validity of pursuing evil in hopes that some good will come out of it.
 
To the OP:

Precisely why I don’t want government run health care. Retroactively prosecuting people? Making decisions on the worthiness of people? Persecuting people for their genes? Wow.
 
Arwen037 said:
To the OP:. Retroactively prosecuting people? Making decisions on the worthiness of people? Persecuting people for their genes? Wow.
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That’s exactly what the insurance companies do to people right now. It’s suddenly ‘bad’ now when the government does it, when the free market has been doing it for decades?
 
An insurance company isn’t forced down your throat. You can pick one. And I’ve never heard of an insurance company putting someone in jail for something they did that was legal at the time, or putting someone in jail because they are likely to become criminals. And they usually don’t force people to take medications to increase their productivity, or any other medication for that matter.
 
A lot of post office clerks and construction laborers have been laid off and lost their jobs. We could put them all to work in the socialized medicine bureaucracy and give each of them a million page manual and they could decide what procedures and medicines you could have.

Wouldn’t that be cool?!!

They would spend all their time looking at the whereases and wherefores in the manual and try do decide what you should do.

It might take many months to decide if you need a biopsy or if you need oxygen or a pacemaker.

Of course, the decision might depend on the age of the patient, so that if they dilly dallied enough, you might get to be too old to justify being given the lifesaving surgery.

The other thing is that a lot of doctors might retire because they want to heal patients not spend their time on the phone arguing with a clerk in a bureaucracy.

So, if you were one of the clerks you could probably transfer over to the “operations” section and actually perform surgery and stuff like that. Abortions, even.

BHO has spoken repeatedly about the “transfer of wealth” and that is one way of accomplishing that. Run out the fat cat doctors and let the laid off postal clerks have a chance to do surgery and prescribe blood pressure medicines and cancer chemotherapy.

Pretty cool.
 
Arwen037 said:
An insurance company isn’t forced down your throat. You can pick one. And I’ve never heard of an insurance company putting someone in jail for something they did that was legal at the time, or putting someone in jail because they are likely to become criminals. And they usually don’t force people to take medications to increase their productivity, or any other medication for that matter.
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Pick what? None will sell my anything I can afford. There is no such thing as pick.
 
pathia said:
Pick what? None will sell my anything I can afford. There is no such thing as pick.
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What are you doing to afford it?

Maybe with socialized medicine we can force all of the people who can not afford it to do volunteer work such as manual labor: picking up garbage, mowing the lawns of politicians and other government employees, mining salt, etc… Full insurance = 3000 hours of labor times the percentage of the premium you can not pay.
 
royal_archer said:
What are you doing to afford it?

Maybe with socialized medicine we can force all of the people who can not afford it to do volunteer work such as manual labor: picking up garbage, mowing the lawns of politicians and other government employees, mining salt, etc… Full insurance = 3000 hours of labor times the percentage of the premium you can not pay.
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Most of us can’t afford it because we are sickly and have pre-existing conditions. Manual labor generally hospitalizes me. For example, the last time I mowed a lawn, I had such a severe allergic reaction I was in the hospital for 3 days. I’m a borderline disability case, I could probably argue it in court with a lawyer, but I refuse to be a leech when there are things I can do jobwise, if limited.
 
royal_archer said:
What are you doing to afford it?

Maybe with socialized medicine we can force all of the people who can not afford it to do volunteer work such as manual labor: picking up garbage, mowing the lawns of politicians and other government employees, mining salt, etc… Full insurance = 3000 hours of labor times the percentage of the premium you can not pay.
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My wife is on medicare, if you had her do any of that you’d kill her. She has psoriatic arthraitis severely, osteo arthraitis, degegenerative back disease, dietbetes which may be getting brittle, and might be getting asthema. Glad you are not running the show.
 
pathia said:
Most of us can’t afford it because we are sickly and have pre-existing conditions. Manual labor generally hospitalizes me. For example, the last time I mowed a lawn, I had such a severe allergic reaction I was in the hospital for 3 days. I’m a borderline disability case, I could probably argue it in court with a lawyer, but I refuse to be a leech when there are things I can do jobwise, if limited.
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“such as manual labor” left the door open for alternative forms of labor.

So you don’t think governement controling health care in this way is a good idea?
 
aspawloski4th said:
My wife is on medicare, if you had her do any of that you’d kill her. She has psoriatic arthraitis severely, osteo arthraitis, degegenerative back disease, dietbetes which may be getting brittle, and might be getting asthema. Glad you are not running the show.
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So you don’t think governement controling health care in this way is a good idea?
 
royal_archer said:
“such as manual labor” left the door open for alternative forms of labor.

So you don’t think governement controling health care in this way is a good idea?
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Well private comapny do that now is a big failure.
 
royal_archer said:
“such as manual labor” left the door open for alternative forms of labor.

So you don’t think governement controling health care in this way is a good idea?
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It’d be better than the hell I have to go through now. I’ve had insurance, but they deny appendicitis/kidney stones/galstones/etc as related to a condition I have they do not cover, so they just use my uncovered condition to say every expensive thing that happens to me, was caused by the uncovered condition, thus they pay for almost nothing.

It’s perfectly legal.

The freemarket programs fail me, they absolutely fail me, they do NOTHING for me, even when I have them. They cheat me, they lie to me, they dodge and use loopholes to deny me everything. Some of my worst medical debt came from when I had insurance.

Nevermind my mother being cut from her insurance, legally, because there was a misstatement about her conditions she had when she was pregnant with my youngest brother, they terminated her coverage, legally.

Nevermind she was on chemotherapy at the time they gave her the questions, there’s no way she was in her right mind, but they used that to cut her off. We had to pay for her chemo out of pocket.
 
pathia said:
It’d be better than the hell I have to go through now. I’ve had insurance, but they deny appendicitis/kidney stones/galstones/etc as related to a condition I have they do not cover, so they just use my uncovered condition to say every expensive thing that happens to me, was caused by the uncovered condition, thus they pay for almost nothing.

It’s perfectly legal.

The freemarket programs fail me, they absolutely fail me, they do NOTHING for me, even when I have them. They cheat me, they lie to me, they dodge and use loopholes to deny me everything. Some of my worst medical debt came from when I had insurance.

Nevermind my mother being cut from her insurance, legally, because there was a misstatement about her conditions she had when she was pregnant with my youngest brother, they terminated her coverage, legally.

Nevermind she was on chemotherapy at the time they gave her the questions, there’s no way she was in her right mind, but they used that to cut her off. We had to pay for her chemo out of pocket.
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Insurance is not very effective if you don’t pay for it. Sort of like getting liability only coverage for your car and then they don’t cover repairs on your car.
 
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