Change of heart on socialized medicine

[royal_archer]

So you’re saying that it’s preferable for pathia to die rather than receive some sort of subsidized treatment via the taxpayer or government guaranteed coverage. Convenient, considering you’re not the one with the life-threatening condition.

Collectively, it is affordable, because most people don’t suffer from such health problems. .

No, you are making a false assumption by associating the conditions of 45 million people with one extreme and rare case. You are also asserting that this is the only option. And I do have a life threatening condition as do many people, although the threat may not be an immenant as for some. As you said most people do not suffer from such health problems. So this legislation will take from honnest hard working people and give their resources to millions who choose not to earn a decent living. Looking at this from a better perspective, I do not feel that millions of Americans who work hard to realize the American Dream should have their property stolen from them and handed over to a large lobby of individuals who find it easier to elect sympathetic politicians than it is to get a decent job.

As I have said numerous times, if you get the freeloaders off the systems there will be plenty of charity to take care of those in true need.

FYI America is not a “Collective” we are a nation founded on individual rights.

 

[royal_archer]

If what it sounds like Royal Archer is saying to us is actually what he means. I’ll give a benefit of the doubt and hold out a possbility theres a chance he might not mean that. But what ist sounds like he is saying is what he means, he can not call himself a Catholic, because that type of thought goes against any Catholic teaching on life and the value thereof.

What Catholic teaching states to use coercion against your neighor to force them to give up their fair wages to help others?

 

[aspawloski4th]

No, you are making a false assumption by associating the conditions of 45 million people with one extreme and rare case. You are also asserting that this is the only option. And I do have a life threatening condition as do many people, although the threat may not be an immenant as for some. As you said most people do not suffer from such health problems. So this legislation will take from honnest hard working people and give their resources to millions who choose not to earn a decent living. Looking at this from a better perspective, I do not feel that millions of Americans who work hard to realize the American Dream should have their property stolen from them and handed over to a large lobby of individuals who find it easier to elect sympathetic politicians than it is to get a decent job.

As I have said numerous times, if you get the freeloaders off the systems there will be plenty of charity to take care of those in true need.
You speal of people who choose to make a decent living then tell people like me its a blessing. Which is it? You cant have it both ways! The fact is that if every choice I made worked out like it was supposed to and the effort I put in worked out like it was supposed to, Id be able to afford healthcare without insurance. Effort doesn’t equil results for most people, Im livng proof of that without arguement. All money is, is a piece of paper thesedays, it’s backed by nothing, let it do somegood for a change.

 

[royal_archer]

Indeed, basic health care comes under the statement “Human Dignity” and it is particularly un-dignified the way the U.S. health care system permits some people to live.

One must consider what is voluntary and what is forced upon another by an outside force. No one is forcing sickness on anyone. Instead, our society provides every opportunity to avoid such plights. Treating someone with dignity is to treat them as you would want to be treated.

 

[royal_archer]

I do not think that Pathia feels too free or dignified at this point.

It almost sounds like you feel that I am oppressing her? I have done no such thing nor have I asked others to oppress her. On the contrary, she is asking that others bring oppression onto me and on to others who earn our own livings.

 

[Shoshana]

And so many of governement taxes went towards GM, etc…and, what exactly happened with all of this? A higher pay for the executives?

If the governement pays taxes in areas that most people are horrified about, a little but f that tx can be given to ALL in need. One can be rest assured of health care at least.

Free loaders? What about the high unemployment rate? What does one do about that? If one is blessed with one job or two or three to keep up, what about those who make minimal wage? Will they be convered decently if perchance they have brain cancer that there is no hope to cure…?

 

[Shoshana]

It almost sounds like you feel that I am oppressing her? I have done no such thing nor have I asked others to oppress her. On the contrary, she is asking that others bring oppression onto me and on to others who earn our own livings.

Yes, you are Lazarus’ brother…

 

[aspawloski4th]

I think what isn’t understood by certain people in Pathia’s case is the private system has failed her toally. Much of what she doesn’t mention too often is the reason for it is discrimination. There isn’t a Releigous chairity out there that will touch her with a 10 ft pole. Because of the gender she lives as. While she is getting it on the financial end , she is getting dumped on on the discrimination end. Maybe the specifis of her case are rare, but there of lots of one in a million rare cases that are rare in their own way getting dumped on also. My wife’s is a one in a million case and while not as bad as Pathia she is being dumped on too. I think 15 to 30 years of Public healthcare, will make private health care more ethical and moral at the time it comes back into being.

 

[royal_archer]

No, equil. Freedom is a word that is defined differently by different people, so is dignity. While I know you didn’t intened it in an earlier post. Telling me I should be happy with the little I have( that most take rightfully for granted) I should be happy with. I find that very insulting to my human dignity. Makes me fell like I’m be treated like an animal.

Material wealth does not impact human dignity. Treating someone like they are nothing more than a source of revenue impacts their dignity. Telling someone they do not deserve what they have rightfully earned and giving their earnings to another is an affront to their dignity.

 

[aspawloski4th]

And so many of governement taxes went towards GM, etc…and, what exactly happened with all of this? A higher pay for the executives?

If the governement pays taxes in areas that most people are horrified about, a little but f that tx can be given to ALL in need. One can be rest assured of health care at least.

Free loaders? What about the high unemployment rate? What does one do about that? If one is blessed with one job or two or three to keep up, what about those who make minimal wage? Will they be convered decently if perchance they have brain cancer that there is no hope to cure…?

So many dollars went to banks to bail them out. The dirty secret is , through the fractional reserve banking act of 1980, banks create money out of nothing everytime they write a mortgage, and we are bailing them out!!! How about letting me create some money out of nothing! Ohyes Id go to jail for counterfeitting. Talk about doublestandard!

 

[royal_archer]

Where on earth are you getting that mis-information from?

That is not true in any of the other 1st world civilized countries on Earth.
In Germany, for instance, copays and insurance costs are on a sliding scale. But there is a cap to the scale. AND remember that the country that spends the most per capita right now on health care is the U.S. WITHOUT universal coverage.

Do you realy think this will not be funded with taxes based on income?

 

[royal_archer]

Education costs actually are sky rocketing, and don’t benefit society as a whole. Most of the people needing charity are the ones with only a highschool education, because there are no more good jobs out there for those without a degree.

I doubt the NEA would support your assertion that education does not bennefit society as a whole.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Material wealth does not impact human dignity. Treating someone like they are nothing more than a source of revenue impacts their dignity. Telling someone they do not deserve what they have rightfully earned and giving their earnings to another is an affront to their dignity.

I beg to differ. If I wealth I don’t have to put as mauch effort into daily survival which makes more time and resourses for doing things that separate humans from animals. Thus the word dignity.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I doubt the NEA would support your assertion that education does not bennefit society as a whole.

The NEA is a bunch of idiots. If they told me the sun was rising tomorrow, I’d be hunkering down for the second coming.

 

[royal_archer]

You speal of people who choose to make a decent living then tell people like me its a blessing. Which is it? You cant have it both ways! The fact is that if every choice I made worked out like it was supposed to and the effort I put in worked out like it was supposed to, Id be able to afford healthcare without insurance. Effort doesn’t equil results for most people, Im livng proof of that without arguement. All money is, is a piece of paper thesedays, it’s backed by nothing, let it do somegood for a change.

A decent living is a living that one can be satisfied with. Some people make a lot of money but choose to not be happy because they aren’t keeping up with the Jones’s.

FYI most people’s plans don’t work out the way they want them to. That is a fact of life. Some times you make millions and sometimes you just get change. The question is what do you do with what you are given?

 

[Ella]

Do you realy think this will not be funded with taxes based on income?

I believe it could be similar to Germany’s system, indeed I hope it is. Some call this a ‘Bismark’ model of health care.

From: npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91971406

“The health care system that took such good care of Sabina is not funded by government taxes. But it is compulsory. All German workers pay about 8 percent of their gross income to a nonprofit insurance company called a sickness fund. Their employers pay about the same amount. Workers can choose among 240 sickness funds.
Basing premiums on a percentage-of-salary means that the less people make, the less they have to pay. The more money they make, the more they pay. This principle is at the heart of the system. Germans call it “solidarity.” The idea is that everybody’s in it together, and nobody should be without health insurance.”

“It’s important to remember that the German government doesn’t provide health care or finance it directly. It does regulate insurance companies closely…”

Read the link I posted. Listen to the audio if you prefer. Other countries are making this work- right now. The U.S. can do it too, and we can do it better, and smarter.

 

[cynic]

No, you are making a false assumption by associating the conditions of 45 million people with one extreme and rare case.
.

One extreme case? What of those who lose their coverage with their jobs (particularly with the current state of the job market in the U.S)? What of those who get kicked off after being diagnosed with something serious like cancer and can’t go elsewhere? They’re still at fault apparently. There’s got to be more than a few examples in amongst those 45 million.

You are also asserting that this is the only option. And I do have a life threatening condition as do many people, although the threat may not be an immenant as for some. As you said most people do not suffer from such health problems. So this legislation will take from honnest hard working people and give their resources to millions who choose not to earn a decent living. Looking at this from a better perspective, I do not feel that millions of Americans who work hard to realize the American Dream should have their property stolen from them and handed over to a large lobby of individuals who find it easier to elect sympathetic politicians than it is to get a decent job.
.

I might agree with this except you talk of a “decent job” instead of just a job. Apparently cleaners, or semi-skilled manufacturing labourers shouldn’t be able to afford some degree of coverage because they haven’t made a success of themselves.

 

[royal_archer]

And so many of governement taxes went towards GM, etc…and, what exactly happened with all of this? A higher pay for the executives?

If the governement pays taxes in areas that most people are horrified about, a little but f that tx can be given to ALL in need. One can be rest assured of health care at least.

Free loaders? What about the high unemployment rate? What does one do about that? If one is blessed with one job or two or three to keep up, what about those who make minimal wage? Will they be convered decently if perchance they have brain cancer that there is no hope to cure…?

I did not support giving money to those corporations.

The high unemployment rate was caused by government intervention. Remember when the ecconomy took a nose dive as Obama surged ahead in the poles? fear of more taxes drove many out of the market and that has triggered the current down turn.

Consider that many of the people who are between jobs have been paying into Social Security, 401Ks, unemployment insurance and high taxes for years. If that money were available to them now, we would not be seeing the second and third tier impact of the ecconomic down turn.

Minimum wage jobs are not meant to provide a living. They are entry level jobs to give opportunity, and extra sources of income. Shouldn’t we be asking why so many people are unqualified for the better jobs?

If “they have brain cancer that there is no hope to cure” then health insurance is a moot point.

 

[aspawloski4th]

A decent living is a living that one can be satisfied with. Some people make a lot of money but choose to not be happy because they aren’t keeping up with the Jones’s.

FYI most people’s plans don’t work out the way they want them to. That is a fact of life. Some times you make millions and sometimes you just get change. The question is what do you do with what you are given?

So the question is was it given or did you earn it? You can’t have it both ways. I worked hard enough to be retired by now. But since I worked hard and got absolutely nothing for it, I am paying dearly for it health wise. But hey don’t worry I have given a certain amount of time for success to take place, if it dosn’t happen you won’t have to worry about paying for my health through the governemnt , because I will have set my soul free from this Earth.

 

[royal_archer]

I beg to differ. If I wealth I don’t have to put as mauch effort into daily survival which makes more time and resourses for doing things that separate humans from animals. Thus the word dignity.

So are you saying it is undignified that you don’t have enough free time for entertainment?