Change of heart on socialized medicine

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In Germany there are standard prices for everything. This saves tons in administrative costs. Private hospitals and doctors. Private insurers - called ‘sickness funds’. Employers pay part of it, just like here. There are co-pays. But if you lose your job, you do not lose your insurance. It’s scaled on income. I know that’s going to be your sticking point. But we scale coverage costs here based on how sick you are - vs. your ability to pay. And the income scale costs less per capita than the sickness scale we are using.
It’s not perfect- of course - one problem they are having is that German doctors make less money than U.S. doctors.
We can learn from the health care systems of other countries and devise the best possible plan.
The price fixing isn’t very pallatable but it is at least worth considering.

So why are German doctors willing to work for less? Lower insurance costs? More doctors competing?

the problem with scaling coverage to income is it provides a disincentive to work. Solve that problem and more would be willing to discuss the income based cost.
 
Hmmm, so now you’re saying the un-insurable should buck up and suffer because it’s a ‘personal interest’. And that by doing so they are comparable to the Revolutionary war soldiers marching barefoot in the snow. And if they want coverage they should leave the United States. Or start their own charities.

Royal Archer, I am just curious - do you work in the insurance industry? :rolleyes:
What I am saying is that your needs or interest do not justify harming others. Most people feel self sacrifice is the better path than harming other innocent individuals. Most also put a sense of personal responsibility ahead of health.

No I don’t.
 
Too bad my grandmother who is a retired nurse , now has Altzheimers. She would rip into him just like she did with the quacks that sometime practiced medicie on the hospital floor she worked on. She was trained by the nuns during WWII. If he lost his insurance and had 6 painful kidneysones in him like I once did I’d bet be would be seeing a big opinion shift on healthcare.
I did have kidney stones and I wasn’t thinking about health care, I was praying very intensely though.
 
What I am saying is that your needs or interest do not justify harming others. Most people feel self sacrifice is the better path than harming other innocent individuals. Most also put a sense of personal responsibility ahead of health.

No I don’t.
Since when did money mean so much that one is physically harmed by having taxes?
 
Since when did money mean so much that one is physically harmed by having taxes?
I didn’t say “physically” alth though there have been some who were physically harmed or threatened by burtal tax collection methods.
 
I didn’t say “physically” alth though there have been some who were physically harmed or threatened by burtal tax collection methods.
That actually overe the last decade is being adressed, and is happening less. Brutal tax collection methods are a matter of an IRS agent trying to get another notch on his post. That happens during times of lower and higher taxes. Whether Democrats or Republicans are in power, so it’s irrelevent to this debate.
 
I AM being physically harmed by the lack of preventative care.
If that were the case you would charge the person who is actively doing something to harm you. However,

You are being harmed by your afflictions. Your only gripe with your fellow man is that those you despise are not doing enough to help you.

To say you are being harmed because others will not do something for you is like saying you are being robbed because the dealer won’t give you a new car for free.
 
That actually overe the last decade is being adressed, and is happening less. Brutal tax collection methods are a matter of an IRS agent trying to get another notch on his post. That happens during times of lower and higher taxes. Whether Democrats or Republicans are in power, so it’s irrelevent to this debate.
Most taxes are collected by force or a threat of force. Those who advocate socialized medicine are advocating the use of these violent means in order to achieve their end. That is the entire heart of this thread. Do the ends justify the means?
 
Most taxes are collected by force or a threat of force. Those who advocate socialized medicine are advocating the use of these violent means in order to achieve their end. That is the entire heart of this thread. Do the ends justify the means?
Well that so called threat of force goes for money for the space program, for foreign aid, to petty dictators, for corporate welfare. I say if we can give money all that purposeless stuff with can direct to something more worthwhile. Take care of our own before we worry about the other periphreal things. As far as the question does the ends justify the means? You seem to advocate it does when its for a business.
 
If that were the case you would charge the person who is actively doing something to harm you. However,

You are being harmed by your afflictions. Your only gripe with your fellow man is that those you despise are not doing enough to help you.

To say you are being harmed because others will not do something for you is like saying you are being robbed because the dealer won’t give you a new car for free.
So I take it, you are not for good Samaritan laws then? Same principle.
 
Well that so called threat of force goes for money for the space program, for foreign aid, to petty dictators, for corporate welfare. I say if we can give money all that purposeless stuff with can direct to something more worthwhile. Take care of our own before we worry about the other periphreal things. As far as the question does the ends justify the means? You seem to advocate it does when its for a business.
False aguement. I don’t support those things and one wrong does not justify other wrongs. Although the space program does have some constitutional purposes.
 
False aguement. I don’t support those things and one wrong does not justify other wrongs. Although the space program does have some constitutional purposes.
It is a fair arguement. Its based on the principle that if one need is satisfied you have to satisfy the other needs. Its called being fair. An arguement thats been around a lot longer than you or I have.
 
Good points,frankly after so many disasters run by the feds down thru the years I for one,am hardly in favor of giving them life and death over me! This latest scenario,the so called swine flu hysteria is a case in point. Anyone who has been in the service knows of the massive long lines on sick call…this is what awaits those in socialized med care!..Of course the wealthy class goes on as before.to the head of the class with their own…remember the fed workers are NOT part of social security,their plan is better then ours,after all we are just drones. They never say…‘follow me’ but rather…‘go’ and give thanks to me that I care so much etc etc…again you made some excellent points…Pas
 
If that were the case you would charge the person who is actively doing something to harm you. However,

You are being harmed by your afflictions. Your only gripe with your fellow man is that those you despise are not doing enough to help you.

To say you are being harmed because others will not do something for you is like saying you are being robbed because the dealer won’t give you a new car for free.
I do not despise anyone.

So being healthy is like getting a free car? That doesn’t even make any sense.

Under current situations, I cost you more. I don’t understand what’s so hard to get about that. Do you REALLY think the hospitals and doctors just shrug at the hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills I bankrupt on every few years?
 
So let’s say that the debt is “impossible to pay off” then that debt should remain on the books and collection agencies should be able to try to collect. If she wins the lottery or other wise come into money, she should be forced to turn that money over to pay those debts. I didn’t advocate armed thugs going to people houses to collect the money. (Although those who advocate tax funded schemes are indirectly advocating armed thugs going to peoples homes to collect the tax money!)
You do realize that hamstrings you for life, right? I already live in crummy housing and living off of ramen and mac and cheese. I donate platelets every time I can for bus money, what more do you want from me? I have nothing left to shed.
 
You do realize that hamstrings you for life, right? I already live in crummy housing and living off of ramen and mac and cheese. I donate platelets every time I can for bus money, what more do you want from me? I have nothing left to shed.
Good thing you are not diebetic. That diet would kill my diebetic wife in no time, and wouldn’t be good for my hypoglycemic mother either.
 
It runs in the family, so it’s only a matter of time.
a month ago, my wife and I went grocery shopping the friendly neighborhood store where we know everybody that works there. She had postponed eating till after we shopped because she didn’t feel very hungery. In the middle of shopping her sugar crashed big time and one of the clerks got her some orange juice and a candy bar to get the sugar back up. I’m think good thing she had medicare or she could easily been dead by now, and me not knowing of what till the coronor’s report .
 
It is a fair arguement. Its based on the principle that if one need is satisfied you have to satisfy the other needs. Its called being fair. An arguement thats been around a lot longer than you or I have.
That is a silly arguement that since one person is the recipient of illgotten treasures, everyone has the right to do likewise because it it “fair” So if someone robs a bank and gets 2 million dollars then according to this “fairness” aguement everyone should be able to walk in to that bank and get their 2 million also. Obviously that is silly.
 
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