Change of heart on socialized medicine

[royal_archer]

That went on at every Catholic school I know of, and mostly public schools. Being Catholic I should being going to a Catholic school if possible. My dad went to Catholic schools, my mom went to mostly public, and got the same treatment as far as something like that goes. I wnet to both Catholic and public schools both special and reguler ed. Based on my wide variety of person school experience it would be utter folly to question my judgement of education.

I am not questioning your experience. Just your premise that communal approaches should be forced on society as a whole. By the way, I bet that policy of (if you bring it you have to share it) was designed to prevent children from bringing food into the class room. In society you don’t want to discourage innovations and productivity that allow people to attain things others do not have. on the contrary you want people to bring more to the table because even if they don’t share it with everyone, they will likely share it with others and overall the society will prosper.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I am a Father and I just lost my job last spring. I work in a less than stable industry and have lost several jobs due to finniky customers changing their minds. The reality that I live with is that I do have to worry about job losses all the time. In order to prepare for that I have to stock up on money and keep a safety nest. Which is really frustrating when I accumulate that moeny to keep my fammily fed but some deadbeat wants to take it because their lack of effort has made them “needy”. (I’m sure you have heard the story of the ant and the grass hopper)

I pay for my childrens meals and they, in turn, have to do their chores, obey my rules, and participate in family social events. I also get all of the intangible bennefits of raising them. These other individuals what all of the bennefits of raising children with out any of the burdens.

Well you are lucky to find a job after loosing one. Or being able to avoid expenses so you can save money. Bet if you had the same luck with cars as I do you would have less money saved. I went to school who had parent’s pass away, or one parent skip out on them, and even kids from orphaniges. If effort equiled success, Id be able to buy Donald Trump with pocket change. Funny how while you do identify your self as a father, you consider yourself a business man first.

 

[royal_archer]

Well you are lucky to find a job after loosing one. Or being able to avoid expenses so you can save money. Bet if you had the same luck with cars as I do you would have less money saved. I went to school who had parent’s pass away, or one parent skip out on them, and even kids from orphaniges. If effort equiled success, Id be able to buy Donald Trump with pocket change. .

to many broken sentences to understand this but it seems like you feel you were the victim of some series of injustices over your life and feel like your bad luck justifies becoming a burden on others whom you seem to presume only have had success due to good luck.

I have seen many cases of good and bad “luck”. Normally these are issolated incidents. when what is being passed off as luck becomes a distinct pattern then you have to question how much of it is random luck. Trump isn’t rich because he is lucky. If he lost every thing he would probably be rich again in a few years. Likewise there are poor people who win the lottery and wind up poor again in a few years. Those who work longer, harder, and smarter are normally able to overcome bad luck. However when society creates a situation where people are given luxury with out requiring effort, many will stop making a full effort. Whidch is where this gets back to socialized medicine. There are many people who are on the edge of working but do so in order to keep their medical insurance up. If a socialized medicine plan goes through many of these people will simply stop working so they can slip under the cost thresholds and maintain their style of living with less effort.

Funny how while you do identify your self as a father, you consider yourself a business man first.

That is an unfounded insult.

 

[aspawloski4th]

to many broken sentences to understand this but it seems like you feel you were the victim of some series of injustices over your life and feel like your bad luck justifies becoming a burden on others whom you seem to presume only have had success due to good luck.

I have seen many cases of good and bad “luck”. Normally these are issolated incidents. when what is being passed off as luck becomes a distinct pattern then you have to question how much of it is random luck. Trump isn’t rich because he is lucky. If he lost every thing he would probably be rich again in a few years. Likewise there are poor people who win the lottery and wind up poor again in a few years. Those who work longer, harder, and smarter are normally able to overcome bad luck. However when society creates a situation where people are given luxury with out requiring effort, many will stop making a full effort. Whidch is where this gets back to socialized medicine. There are many people who are on the edge of working but do so in order to keep their medical insurance up. If a socialized medicine plan goes through many of these people will simply stop working so they can slip under the cost thresholds and maintain their style of living with less effort.

That is an unfounded insult.

You say business this, business that, and busniess can do no wrong. all through the thread, but it takes 100’s of posts for you to mention family. What am I suposed to think.? Im not affraid to mention my own family, so why are you with yours? As far as maintaining a lifestyle with less effort. I know a service manager at car dealership who is in his 70’s, who is on chemo for cancer, but works to keep his benefits. Sorry He should be retired! He should be a full time grandfather, not listening to whining and snilveling of stuckup customers full time. Yes he hates his job.

 

[royal_archer]

You say business this, business that, and busniess can do no wrong. all through the thread, but it takes 100’s of posts for you to mention family. What am I suposed to think.? Im not affraid to mention my own family, so why are you with yours? As far as maintaining a lifestyle with less effort. I know a service manager at car dealership who is in his 70’s, who is on chemo for cancer, but works to keep his benefits. Sorry He should be retired! He should be a full time grandfather, not listening to whining and snilveling of stuckup customers full time. Yes he hates his job.

I have posted on family many times but that is besides the point. My family is my responsibility and not societies. My family is not in a possition to help you but many business are. And this is a discussion of work ethic My family does not have a role in other members of society putting in a fair effort.

As for the Manager in his 70’s that is what many of us are facing. I have resinged my self to the fact I will lkely work until a year or two before I die. Now wy should my retirement be postponed so his retirement can be expedited?

 

[pathia]

Obvioiusly you despise the financially successfull. instead of thanking them for the amount of money they pay in order to help you, you insist on demonizing them for not giving you everything you want.

Once again you are arguing against a system that I already said is bad but you are advocating expanding some of the worse parts of the system.

What part of “I don’t despise anyone” was misstated? I don’t think it could really get any more clearly stated than that.

However, I don’t owe them anything either. I’ve been fired half a dozen times, because they didn’t want me to use the bathroom, or they didn’t want a queer working for me, again never mind the fact I’m celibate, they don’t care. I’m just too queer for them, period. Too queer to live in certain apartments, I’ve been evicted three or four times for this, for no other reason. Equal Housing laws don’t apply to me, thanks to Jesse Helms. I have no way to protest, I can be removed from a lease faster than a convicted pedophile or drug dealer.

Half of my adult life I’ve had to live out of my car, because no one will take me in, or rent me a place. All the Catholic run shelters asked me to leave, they didn’t want me in their places, because they didn’t want me using the rest room.

What do I owe society, when they treat me like some form of subhuman creature? Do I hate them? No, I weep, because I don’t know what in the world could have been done to them to make them hate me so.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I have posted on family many times but that is besides the point. My family is my responsibility and not societies. My family is not in a possition to help you but many business are. And this is a discussion of work ethic My family does not have a role in other members of society putting in a fair effort.

As for the Manager in his 70’s that is what many of us are facing. I have resinged my self to the fact I will lkely work until a year or two before I die. Now wy should my retirement be postponed so his retirement can be expedited?

No your family doesn’t that is correct, but some proud to be a part of theeir family would use them as a camparison example, because that is who they should be closest to, not closest to their businesss. Maybe because you are younger than him! Retirement should be based on age and health and absolutely nothing else.

 

[Ella]

How about everyone get the exact same coverage!

This is what many countries do. In this regard health care availability is like potable water availability - not the perk of a privileged few but provided to all who pay into the system (like your water bill).

Just as unclean water would lead to conditions that are not good for a community to live with, so unhealthy people are not good for a community to live around.

In this country we scale the cost of health insurance on the health or sickness of the person buying the coverage.
In many other countries the cost of health insurance is scaled on the income of the person buying it.

What you might consider, Royal Archer, is that the U.S. system, in addition to costing you more money by sending the indigent to E.R.s for care, is costing you good healthy living conditions by keeping sick people sick… especially infectious sick people.

By helping provide coverage for all citizens, you are in fact not ‘giving deadbeats a free ride’ but rather keeping your own area cleaner and safer. The way the system is now is like you buying a private bathroom stall set in the middle of public bathrooms, and assuming the germs from the public stalls are not making it into your private stall. But the world isn’t like that - God has made us share the same air, the same earth, the same water.

 

[Ella]

. There are many people who are on the edge of working but do so in order to keep their medical insurance up. If a socialized medicine plan goes through many of these people will simply stop working so they can slip under the cost thresholds and maintain their style of living with less effort.

Can you provide me with some examples of this happening in other countries, with socialized medical plans, right now?

Or is this simply something you are worried about but that you have no proof of happening?

 

[aspawloski4th]

Can you provide me with some examples of this happening in other countries, with socialized medical plans, right now?

Or is this simply something you are worried about but that you have no proof of happening?

He is paranoid that one person somewhere just might get a little something he didn’t earn, oooooooooooh big deal. it happens in busniness all the time, brown nose here get a promotion in return there. What about that illgotten money? Oh thats right business did that, and business can do no wrong, silly me!

 

[aspawloski4th]

What part of “I don’t despise anyone” was misstated? I don’t think it could really get any more clearly stated than that.

However, I don’t owe them anything either. I’ve been fired half a dozen times, because they didn’t want me to use the bathroom, or they didn’t want a queer working for me, again never mind the fact I’m celibate, they don’t care. I’m just too queer for them, period. Too queer to live in certain apartments, I’ve been evicted three or four times for this, for no other reason. Equal Housing laws don’t apply to me, thanks to Jesse Helms. I have no way to protest, I can be removed from a lease faster than a convicted pedophile or drug dealer.

Half of my adult life I’ve had to live out of my car, because no one will take me in, or rent me a place. All the Catholic run shelters asked me to leave, they didn’t want me in their places, because they didn’t want me using the rest room.

What do I owe society, when they treat me like some form of subhuman creature? Do I hate them? No, I weep, because I don’t know what in the world could have been done to them to make them hate me so.

He just wants you gone because you arent productive to his standards for society. Reminds me a bit of Nazi Germany.

 

[royal_archer]

What part of “I don’t despise anyone” was misstated? I don’t think it could really get any more clearly stated than that.

However, I don’t owe them anything either. I’ve been fired half a dozen times, because they didn’t want me to use the bathroom, or they didn’t want a queer working for me, again never mind the fact I’m celibate, they don’t care. I’m just too queer for them, period. Too queer to live in certain apartments, I’ve been evicted three or four times for this, for no other reason. Equal Housing laws don’t apply to me, thanks to Jesse Helms. I have no way to protest, I can be removed from a lease faster than a convicted pedophile or drug dealer.

Half of my adult life I’ve had to live out of my car, because no one will take me in, or rent me a place. All the Catholic run shelters asked me to leave, they didn’t want me in their places, because they didn’t want me using the rest room.

What do I owe society, when they treat me like some form of subhuman creature? Do I hate them? No, I weep, because I don’t know what in the world could have been done to them to make them hate me so.

The “rich” already pay for 90% of the costs of goernment. Why are you going after them to give more instead of asking for those who do not contribute to give more?

I have seen many cases of individual discrimination but never a case where someone does not have any options. with nearly 5% of the population identifying themselves as something other than heterosexual, I find it hard to believe that you can not find anyone who is willing to give you a job or an opportunity to find a home; unless there is something more that you are not saying here. Have you discussed this with your priest?

When you ask why people hate you, you are implying a conclusion that is not supported. 99.9% of Americans don’t even know you. Most who do not want to contribute to you are not doing it out fo hatred for you they simply trying to give the resources they develop to those that they love.

 

[royal_archer]

No your family doesn’t that is correct, but some proud to be a part of theeir family would use them as a camparison example, because that is who they should be closest to, not closest to their businesss. Maybe because you are younger than him! Retirement should be based on age and health and absolutely nothing else.

I don’t wish to exploit my family in that way.

Retirement is a luxury, and end of life vacation, that must be earned.

 

[royal_archer]

This is what many countries do. In this regard health care availability is like potable water availability - not the perk of a privileged few but provided to all who pay into the system (like your water bill).

Just as unclean water would lead to conditions that are not good for a community to live with, so unhealthy people are not good for a community to live around.

In this country we scale the cost of health insurance on the health or sickness of the person buying the coverage.
In many other countries the cost of health insurance is scaled on the income of the person buying it.

What you might consider, Royal Archer, is that the U.S. system, in addition to costing you more money by sending the indigent to E.R.s for care, is costing you good healthy living conditions by keeping sick people sick… especially infectious sick people.

By helping provide coverage for all citizens, you are in fact not ‘giving deadbeats a free ride’ but rather keeping your own area cleaner and safer. The way the system is now is like you buying a private bathroom stall set in the middle of public bathrooms, and assuming the germs from the public stalls are not making it into your private stall. But the world isn’t like that - God has made us share the same air, the same earth, the same water.

In your example of water, if you do not pay your water bill your water gets cut off.

I would also like to see everyone get health care and be healthy. The only disagreement is on how to do it. You aer showing a preconceived solution and using the need to provide proof to support that solution. The falicy of the argument is that you have failed to show that that solutionis the betterr solution. your solution or your proposed means to get to the desired end has fatal flaws. It fails to address many problems that are at the root of the current situation we have today and in many ways will make things worse.

The better option would be to implement the easy fixes that have been proposed which do not involve shell games. Then provide more incentives for people to get off the welfare wagon and into the ranks of the contributing. At that point many of the problems you are attempting to bandaid will go away.

 

[royal_archer]

Can you provide me with some examples of this happening in other countries, with socialized medical plans, right now?

Or is this simply something you are worried about but that you have no proof of happening?

I don’t know anyone in other countries. This is based on acquaintences who have made decisions to stop contributing because of the readily available governmnet hand out programs. This is also due to conversations with coworkers who are in the retirement gray zone (healthy enough to work but with access to resources to retire). Some co workers are only working to get medical bennefits but if the government were to provide them for free if they don’t work, they will quit working. This is also from acquaintences who made the decision to stop preparing for retirement knowing that if they have money they get less freebees from the government and are now deciding to just retire off the government welfare system.

 

[royal_archer]

He is paranoid that one person somewhere just might get a little something he didn’t earn, oooooooooooh big deal. it happens in busniness all the time, brown nose here get a promotion in return there. What about that illgotten money? Oh thats right business did that, and business can do no wrong, silly me!

1/3 of Americans are on some sort of government assistance, hardly “one person somewhere”

 

[royal_archer]

He just wants you gone because you arent productive to his standards for society. Reminds me a bit of Nazi Germany.

Actually Nazi Germany was socialist. it was the big government taking from all and dishing it out as the rulers saw fit. This is much more in line with what youi are desiring with socialized medicine.

It is also an in appropriate and unfounded charachter attack to say that I want anyone “gone.” I simply want to see all treated equally and fairly.

Please do not degrade this discussion to insults.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Actually Nazi Germany was socialist. it was the big government taking from all and dishing it out as the rulers saw fit. This is much more in line with what youi are desiring with socialized medicine.

It is also an in appropriate and unfounded charachter attack to say that I want anyone “gone.” I simply want to see all treated equally and fairly.

Please do not degrade this discussion to insults.

I remember you saying something about her going to a foreign country is good thing. That sounds like you want her gone to me You know getting rid of the undesirables! As for Nazism being socialism it wasnt 100% pure socialism, it was more like fascism where there still privat means of production given direction by the governement. Telefunken, Mercedes Benz, as well as many other companies were not handed to the governent lock stock and barrel.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I don’t wish to exploit my family in that way.

Retirement is a luxury, and end of life vacation, that must be earned.

Hmmm Then why was my grandmother forced against her will to retire at 70 from nursing? I would say in the case of the service manager who is still working well into his 70s, he has plenty earned retirement. The purpose of retirement was always more along the lines of whether one can do the job as well as someone younger. I’d much rather have my friend JD retired and being a full time grandparent, and a partime volunteer, rather still working a meaningless full time job as service manager, listening to yuppys snivel about thier car’s tire noise all week. He has more than earned his retirement sir.

 

[Arwen037]

So retirement is a punishment for your grandmother, but a right of your friend? And I thought managers were just brownnosers who haven’t earned their pay?