Change of the Name above all names

[FootStool]

If Mother Mary called Her only-begotten Son Yeshua, why and how did we come to call Him… Jesus. Our given names are and will be the same every part of the world… just pronunciation might differ…

We know that Jesus if the Name above all names, why does the catholic church allow people to use that name at random… esp. in Jesus’ ?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

If Mother Mary called Her only-begotten Son Yeshua, why and how did we come to call Him… Jesus. Our given names are and will be the same every part of the world… just pronunciation might differ…

We know that Jesus if the Name above all names, why does the catholic church allow people to use that name at random… esp. in Jesus’ ?

What?

 

[drforjc]

Clearly the inspired authors of the Gospels didn’t hesitate to transliterate the Aramaic Yeshua into the Greek Iesous that they composed the Gospels in… I don’t see the problem. Transliteration is a universally acknowledged practice.

 

[Eucharisted]

Jesus is English for Yeshua. English speakers call Him Jesus.

 

[DaveBj]

Jesus is English for Yeshua. English speakers call Him Jesus.

Eucharisted has a good handle on the linguistic explanation, even if the transmogrification of the letter “J” from the “Y” sound to the “DZH” sound is only 2-3 centuries old.

I’m still trying to figure out how we got from “Ya’qub” (OT Hebrew) / “Iakob” (Greek) to “James” in English. But that’s another thread.

DaveBj

 

[sparkielee]

I agree-we should pray for lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transgendered people, and those who are questioning as well as those who are involved in their lives. We also should pray for the nation itself while these debates about “gay marriage” or “civil unions” go on.

I think we should show compassion without telling them that gay sex is ok-because it isn’t-and let Congress and the President know we don’t approve of marriage licenses for same sex couples.

I’m sorry if I’m getting off the subject but I agree with that post about praying for LGBT’s. I feel that loving others unconditionally is as much a part of my “religion” as the Latin Mass.

-sparkie

 

[Timothysis]

Clearly the inspired authors of the Gospels didn’t hesitate to transliterate the Aramaic Yeshua into the Greek Iesous that they composed the Gospels in… I don’t see the problem. Transliteration is a universally acknowledged practice.

I’ve always heard that “Jesus” is the Greco-Roman transliteration of the Aramaic “Yeshua.” Of course, I know next to nothing about this but agree that “transliteration is a universally acknowledged practice.” Unfortunately, those who don’t know think that translation is a simple as saying “pomme means apple, tete means head.” It isn’t nearly as easy as that.

 

[LilyM]

I agree-we should pray for lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transgendered people, and those who are questioning as well as those who are involved in their lives. We also should pray for the nation itself while these debates about “gay marriage” or “civil unions” go on.

I think we should show compassion without telling them that gay sex is ok-because it isn’t-and let Congress and the President know we don’t approve of marriage licenses for same sex couples.

I’m sorry if I’m getting off the subject but I agree with that post about praying for LGBT’s. I feel that loving others unconditionally is as much a part of my “religion” as the Latin Mass.

-sparkie

You posted in teh wrong thread there sparkie

 

[bpbasilphx]

I’m still trying to figure out how we got from “Ya’qub” (OT Hebrew) / “Iakob” (Greek) to “James” in English.

---

Actually, the Greek form is IAKOVOS–and thence to the Latin JACOBUS. Compare the Italian Iago and Spanish Diego.

 

[sparkielee]

You posted in teh wrong thread there sparkie

I guess I did. I was agreeing with DaveBj; I don’t condone “gay” behaviour. I was afraid my post may seem out of place here and “couldn’t wait” to find out what kind of criticism I was going to take for posting it here. I think we should “hate the sin but love the sinner”.

Maybe I should have put my foot in my mouth on this one until I ended up in a thread having to do with the church’s (or others’) views on LGBT rather than the ones on traditional Catholicism.

-sparkie:shrug:

 

[Spirithound]

If Mother Mary called Her only-begotten Son Yeshua, why and how did we come to call Him… Jesus. Our given names are and will be the same every part of the world… just pronunciation might differ…

We know that Jesus if the Name above all names, why does the catholic church allow people to use that name at random… esp. in Jesus’ ?

Ah, but our given names are not necessarily the same in every part of the world. A girl named Cecilia will be called “Thethilia” in Spain, but “Sesilia” in South America. A man named Peter, living in a more Hispanic part of the USA might be affectionately called “Pedro” by his Hispanic friends. Even the name in question, Jesus, is pronounced with a final in English, but that sound is deleted in French.

Translation and transliteration happen for a variety of reasons, and my preferred explanation for the current question is that the actual “metaphysical” (did I use that word right?) form of the name doesn’t matter. What matters is the meaning behind the name. In many European-based naming practices, the meaning behind a name is obscure; it could very well be a random string of letters for all I know. But in others, including Native Canadian cultures, Arabic, and Chinese, the meaning behind a name is clear because their names are also regular words. Perhaps it would be helpful to think of His Name not just as “Jesus”, but as “God Saves”.

 

[DaveBj]

Actually, the Greek form is IAKOVOS–and thence to the Latin JACOBUS. Compare the Italian Iago and Spanish Diego.

You’re right. I usually verify before I post, but I didn’t this time.

I’m still trying to figure out how we get from there to “James,” tho.

I guess I did. I was agreeing with DaveBj; I don’t condone “gay” behaviour. I was afraid my post may seem out of place here and “couldn’t wait” to find out what kind of criticism I was going to take for posting it here. I think we should “hate the sin but love the sinner”.

Maybe I should have put my foot in my mouth on this one until I ended up in a thread having to do with the church’s (or others’) views on LGBT rather than the ones on traditional Catholicism.

-sparkie:shrug:

???

I didn’t have a thing to say about behavior, gay or straight.

DaveBj

 

[Spirithound]

You’re right. I usually verify before I post, but I didn’t this time.

I’m still trying to figure out how we get from there to “James,” tho.

It seems it went from Latin “Jacobus” to late Latin “Jacomus” to “James”.

** and [m] are related by both being voiced, and at the same place of articulation, so it just became nasalized, and then the [k] deleted.**

 

[sparkielee]

You’re right. I usually verify before I post, but I didn’t this time.

I’m still trying to figure out how we get from there to “James,” tho.

???

I didn’t have a thing to say about behavior, gay or straight.

DaveBj

You were right-I looked again to see who made that post I gave you credit for and what he/she said. It was a post from “Eucharisted” that mentioned praying for gays and lesbians. Sorry for saying it was you.

Patron saint of homsexuals, whos name I still don’t know, please pray for gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transexuals, individually and as a whole. Obtain for them sanctification and salvation, so that they may enjoy the fruits of our Redemption.

 

[NeedImprovement]

That’s Eucharisted’s siggy (signature) . It’s good to be reminded to pray for certain intentions.

Looks like our Jewish brethren had the *name thing * figured out from the beginning … they weren’t allowed to speak God’s name, thereby eliminating any possibility of mispronouncing it.

 

[Spirithound]

Looks like our Jewish brethren had the *name thing * figured out from the beginning … they weren’t allowed to speak God’s name, thereby eliminating any possibility of mispronouncing it.

That’s all well and good if you never have to address someone by name, ie, can substitute a title instead, but Jesus is God AND man, and being human, His family and friends and disciples would be using His name frequently. And, if one of my theories is correct, the apostles may even have called Him Yeshua and Iesou at various times, just for fun.

 

[NeedImprovement]

That’s all well and good if you never have to address someone by name, ie, can substitute a title instead, but Jesus is God AND man, and being human, His family and friends and disciples would be using His name frequently. And, if one of my theories is correct, the apostles may even have called Him Yeshua and

Iesou at various times, just for fun.

That’s fair speculation.

If sacred scripture is any indication, working from the Latin Vulgate (I’m no expert in latin BTW) in Mark 9:38 and Luke 9:49 the disciples address Him as Teacher (Praeceptor; from praecipere: to advise, to teach) and Master (Magister).

What happens more than not is that he is called “Lord” (Domine), by the centurion with faith [Matt 8:8] ; by St. Peter when he asks “How many times” to forgive his brother who sins against him. Even in an apparent moment of intimate friendship, this dear friend of His who is listening to the heartbeat of eternity calls Him “Lord”

John 13: 21-25 [DRV]

21 When Jesus had said these things, he was troubled in spirit; and he testified, and said: Amen, amen I say to you, one of you shall betray me. 22 The disciples therefore looked one upon another, doubting of whom he spoke. 23 Now there was leaning on Jesus’ bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, and said to him: Who is it of whom he speaketh? 25 He therefore, leaning on the breast of Jesus, saith to him: Lord, who is it?

I would think He was called Jesus often during his childhood, as you say with friends and family. The blind Bartimaeus [Mark 10:46-52] calls out ot Him first as “Jesus (Yeshua) son of David” and then during his actual request as, “Lord”.

What a holy thing was done by that good thief – Dismas , crucified with Him, who, when life was ebbing low begged, [Luke 23:42] “Jesus , remember me when you enter into your kingdom.”

Even if we have effected transliteration or twisted the pronunciation , Our Blessed Lord is fully aware of Who we’re calling. It would appear the important thing is to makes sure we do call on Him.