Changes at church because of the H1N1 virus

[Rosalinda]

The Diocese of London in Canada has suspended reception of communion on the tongue effective last Sunday. Faithful Catholics have no option but to receive on the hand or to remain in their pews. My sister is a health care professional and she is mystified that anyone could think hands are more clean and sterile than receiving in the mouth.

Here is the requested link as proof: rcec.london.on.ca/

The priests are obediently respecting the directives from the bishop as they must.

 

[DorianGregorian]

Even if a Bishop says there can be no Communion on the Tongue, he cannot enforce that rule as it is contrary to the universal law of the Latin Rite, and no Bishop can override this law.

CITH presents more of a risk of spreading bacteria anyways.

 

[kage_ar]

The Diocese of London in Canada has suspended reception of communion on the tongue effective last Sunday. Faithful Catholics have no option but to receive on the hand or to remain in their pews. My sister is a health care professional and she is mystified that anyone could think hands are more clean and sterile than receiving in the mouth.

Here is the requested link as proof: rcec.london.on.ca/

The priests are obediently respecting the directives from the bishop as they must.

The faithful of this Diocese would be well within their rights to go directly to Rome with this.

Prayers that this Bishop will see his error.

 

[cvbs21]

For almost 4 weeks now the Holy Water has been removed, their is NO shaking of hands at the sign of peace or any point not even following the mass when greeting the Priests.

The Host can still be received on the tongue, although not recommended it is up to the person.

 

[Like]

Even if a Bishop says there can be no Communion on the Tongue, he cannot enforce that rule as it is contrary to the universal law of the Latin Rite, and no Bishop can override this law.

CITH presents more of a risk of spreading bacteria anyways.

Agree:thumbsup:

 

[Joannm]

Even if a Bishop says there can be no Communion on the Tongue, he cannot enforce that rule as it is contrary to the universal law of the Latin Rite, and no Bishop can override this law.

CITH presents more of a risk of spreading bacteria anyways.

How so. One can very easily distribute communion in the hand without touching. With communion on the tongue it is much harder to avoid getting saliva on your hand, especially if the person receiving does not put his or her tongue all the way out, or if they are among the few that wrap their lips around your fingers as you distribute. This has happened to me and to many a priest that I know…we have discussed it at staff meetings.

 

[DorianGregorian]

A proper way of receiving Communion in the tongue could be explained in say the Homily? Leave your mouth open, stick out your tongue, and wait until the Priest puts his hand away from your mouth. I know instruction in a homily? It’s a wild idea.

Our saliva has antibodies to fight bacteria, whereas the hand has a wider area of contact than the tongue and the skin which is a paradise for bacteria. In addition if the Priest touches one persons hand he will then spread those germs to the rest of the Hosts.

And plus (at least Church-going) people tend to put their hands in worse places than their tongues!

 

[Joannm]

A proper way of receiving Communion in the tongue could be explained in say the Homily? Leave your mouth open, stick out your tongue, and wait until the Priest puts his hand away from your mouth. I know instruction in a homily? It’s a wild idea.

Our saliva has antibodies to fight bacteria, whereas the hand has a wider area of contact than the tongue and the skin which is a paradise for bacteria. In addition if the Priest touches one persons hand he will then spread those germs to the rest of the Hosts.

And plus (at least Church-going) people tend to put their hands in worse places than their tongues!

You can explain away but that still doesn’t mean people are going to do what you tell them.

 

[MusicMan]

Well, I think what we’ve really agreed on here is that the distribution of Holy Communion might be unsanitary. This is our Lord that we’re talking about. Where is our faith? Does anyone honestly think that if Holy Communion is truly the Most Precious Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ that he would allow the reception of it to make us sick?

Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains. How small is our faith if we think that Communion can make us sick. I’ve never moved a mountain with my faith, but on this matter, it’s at least as large as a buckeye.

And, I was last to receive from the chalice today, and I finished it. It doesn’t matter diseases were in the people who’s lips touched the chalice before me, receiving the Precious Blood of Jesus will never make me ill.

 

[DorianGregorian]

That is dangerous thinking…

It’s like saying we should give the Host to persons with Celiac’s Disease, short of a miracle, they will become seriously ill.

While no one denies it is the Blood and Body of Jesus, disease knows no holiness. We have to be safe than sorry.

Laus Deo

 

[MusicMan]

And that is a worthy caveat to my comments. Yet, there are people out there, and I’ve even seen it posted here, who believe that if the faith of a celiac patient is strong enough, they can handle the host in small quantities.

Which almost brings us back to common sense, and I think the Bishops are being more alarmist than common sensical. Both methods of receiving the host can be unsanitary. I don’t think there is a way to guarantee sanity method of distribution of the host. So, we use common sense and don’t receive when we are ill, and trust in God when we receive when we are healthy. The only solutions that I can see are such logistical and theological nightmares that they are untenable.

We could pour wine into little cups like the Protestants do, but how would we succeed in cleaning the cups? We could receive by picking up the host from a paten extended to the communicant with the paten being wiped down with an antiseptic after each communicant.

No, what the Church should be doing is just encouraging people not to receive when they are sick and all of us to pray for the health of the Faithful.

 

[Lennox]

After a quick inspection of the GIRM and the Norms for Reception and Distribution of Holy Communion, they actually seem to indicate that the Bishop has no authority to legislate whether one receives in the hand or on the tongue. These documents specify that it is at the discretion of the Communicant.

Since I am not one typically in favor of the exclusivity of one or the other method, I would appreciate it if someone who is typically ardently in favor of Communion on the tongue only would cite a source for me.

Nor is your interpretation authoritative. That’s what pretty much keeps these forums going. People offering or arguing about their personal ideas or interpretations.

 

[Nine_Two]

As far as banning the chalice, removing holy water, and so forth, I understand the need to protect the Faithful, but it also, IMHO, diminishes our faith. If Christ is TRULY present in the elements of the wine, and it truly has become his most Precious Blood, then it would be rendered incapable of spreading disease.

Yep, it’s a sad thing indeed. If we believe what Christ taught then we should have no worries of getting it from the Eucharist.

Of course that’s not to say one can’t get it another way at church, after all it is a large gathering in an enclosed space, but the eucharist should be safe regardless.

 

[Lennox]

There is no documentation of any Bishop banning reception on the tongue.

Why would you post such a silly comment in all sincerity? Do a quick web search and you’ll find several including my own diocese. Do it right now. Shouldn’t take you more than 30 seconds using any number of search engines.

If you have an official document from a Bishop, post the link. If you do not, then, it is safe to say you or someone at your Parish has misunderstood your Bishop’s guidelines.

The “official document” was a uniform notice in every bulletin in the diocese two weeks ago from the chancery office. It’s still mentioned (although paraphrased) in this week’s edition of our cathedral’s bulletin:

“Because of the Swine Flu (H1N1 virus), the Bishop has
once again made the decision to limit the following practices
at liturgy:
The Eucharistic Bread should only be received in the
hand, not on the tongue.
While the practice of communion from the Common Cup
is still permitted, each person is asked to consider not
drinking from the Cup if they are not feeling well.
Please remember to wash your hands before and after
mass.
You are free to give and receive the sign of peace, unless
you are not feeling well.
Above all, please remember, you are under no obligation
to attend mass if you are sick.”

sancarloscathedral.net/bulletin/913080_Bulletin_Oct%2011.pdf

Your suggestion that " it is safe to say you or someone at your Parish has misunderstood your Bishop’s guidelines" would be ludicrous if it were not so offensive. If you are still not satisfied about the position of a diocese you know nothing about, please feel free to call or e-mail. Perhaps they will fax you an “official document” or at least an old bulletin with the official statement from the bishop:

Diocese of Monterey
P.O. Box 2048
Monterey, CA 93942
Phone: 831-373-4345
Email General Info: webmail@dioceseofmonterey.org

 

[Lennox]

Yep, it’s a sad thing indeed. If we believe what Christ taught then we should have no worries of getting it from the Eucharist.

Of course that’s not to say one can’t get it another way at church, after all it is a large gathering in an enclosed space, but the eucharist should be safe regardless.

Why?

Because the Lord gave us intelligent men who know how to take reasonable action under such exigent circumstances?

 

[Lennox]

The Diocese of London in Canada has suspended reception of communion on the tongue effective last Sunday. Faithful Catholics have no option but to receive on the hand or to remain in their pews. **My sister is a health care professional and she is mystified that anyone could think hands are more clean and sterile than receiving in the mouth. **

Here is the requested link as proof: rcec.london.on.ca/

The priests are obediently respecting the directives from the bishop as they must.

That has nothing to do with it. I have distributed communion thousands of times. I have never touched a person’s hand – not one time while distributing. Despite plenty of practice and excellent hand-to-eye coordination I have touched quite a few lips, teeth and tongues when a communicant has made the wrong move with their head at the wrong time. I have also felt a person’s breath on many occasions.

 

[Lennox]

Even if a Bishop says there can be no Communion on the Tongue, he cannot enforce that rule as it is contrary to the universal law of the Latin Rite, and no Bishop can override this law.

CITH presents more of a risk of spreading bacteria anyways.

It’s being enforced at my parish. I’ve even been an instrument of that enforcement.

 

[Lennox]

Well, I think what we’ve really agreed on here is that the distribution of Holy Communion might be unsanitary. This is our Lord that we’re talking about. Where is our faith? Does anyone honestly think that if Holy Communion is truly the Most Precious Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ that he would allow the reception of it to make us sick?

Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains. How small is our faith if we think that Communion can make us sick. I’ve never moved a mountain with my faith, but on this matter, it’s at least as large as a buckeye.

And, I was last to receive from the chalice today, and I finished it. It doesn’t matter diseases were in the people who’s lips touched the chalice before me, receiving the Precious Blood of Jesus will never make me ill.

Would you knowingly consume the Blessed Sacrament that was contaminated with Sodium Cyanide? I certainly wouldn’t. While the Blessed Sacrament will never make me ill, contaminants certainly will – be it a virus or a poison.

 

[Cat]

And that is a worthy caveat to my comments. Yet, there are people out there, and I’ve even seen it posted here, who believe that if the faith of a celiac patient is strong enough, they can handle the host in small quantities.

Which almost brings us back to common sense, and I think the Bishops are being more alarmist than common sensical. Both methods of receiving the host can be unsanitary. I don’t think there is a way to guarantee sanity method of distribution of the host. So, we use common sense and don’t receive when we are ill, and trust in God when we receive when we are healthy. The only solutions that I can see are such logistical and theological nightmares that they are untenable.

We could pour wine into little cups like the Protestants do, but how would we succeed in cleaning the cups? We could receive by picking up the host from a paten extended to the communicant with the paten being wiped down with an antiseptic after each communicant.

No, what the Church should be doing is just encouraging people not to receive when they are sick and all of us to pray for the health of the Faithful.

How do you think Protestants clean the cups? (I grew up Protestant.)

They wash them.

That is the job of a volunteer committee of people called “communion ministers.” After everyone else has gone home or gone to the local restaurant for Sunday dinner, the communion ministers head down to the kitchen with the stacks of trays of little glass cups and wash them, just like someone would wash dishes. Steaming hot water, dishwashing detergent, lots of rinses. The cups are laid out on dish towels to dry, and later, the communion ministers return to store the cups safely.

Or…the church orders plastic disposable cups. Since the grape juice is just grape juice, these plastic cups can be thrown away, even with residues of grape juice.

I’m not advocating the use of little cups for Catholic Communion. I’m only explaining how it’s done in Protestant churches.

BTW, to those who believe that the Lord’s Body and Bloody can’t transmit disease–I can go along with that. But the cup itself, the physical chalice that holds the Lord’s Blood, COULD conceivably transmit viruses to other.

I work in microbiology, and I believe that all of the various transmission routes that people on this thread are proposing are very unlikely. But I think that the bishops are taking no chances on a lawsuit (and you all KNOW that somewhere in your city, there’s a lawyer who would take that case in an instant!). It’s too bad, but I believe it’s a wise decision on the part of the bishops in this country where people sue over burns from hot coffee. Could YOUR diocese weather a multi-million dollar lawsuit AND the resulting bad publicity? We can’t be naive in the U.S. We can’t trust people to do the right thing anymore.

 

[Phemie]

How do you think Protestants clean the cups? (I grew up Protestant.)

They wash them.

That is the job of a volunteer committee of people called “communion ministers.” After everyone else has gone home or gone to the local restaurant for Sunday dinner, the communion ministers head down to the kitchen with the stacks of trays of little glass cups and wash them, just like someone would wash dishes. Steaming hot water, dishwashing detergent, lots of rinses. The cups are laid out on dish towels to dry, and later, the communion ministers return to store the cups safely.

And therein lies the problem, you can’t simply ‘wash’ them in the Catholic church. Each little cup would have to be individually purified by the priest, deacon or instituted acolyte before being washed with soap and water. In most parishes that would fall to the priest since there are no deacons or instituted acolytes.