Changes in Catechism

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Ender said:
We punish individuals because they deserve it; it is a matter of justice, and this has not, and cannot, change.
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Completely false. Aquinas explains “… human laws should be proportionate to the common good. Now the common good comprises many things. Wherefore law should take account of many things, as to persons, as to matters, and as to times. “ (ST I II 96 1)
 
Emeraldlady said:
Completely false. Aquinas explains “… human laws should be proportionate to the common good. Now the common good comprises many things. Wherefore law should take account of many things, as to persons, as to matters, and as to times. “ (ST I II 96 1)
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This is a perfect example of the saying “If your only tool is a hammer everything looks like a nail.” Regardless of what arguments I make you continually respond with this one idea even despite the fact that I don’t dispute it and continue to agree with it each time you repeat it.

That said, we do punish people because they deserve it. Could there ever be anything else that justified punishing someone if he didn’t deserve it? This is the very meaning of justice - treating people according to their actions, for good or ill.
 
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Ender said:
That said, we do punish people because they deserve it. Could there ever be anything else that justified punishing someone if he didn’t deserve it? This is the very meaning of justice - treating people according to their actions, for good or ill.
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As Catholics, imbued by faith with understanding levels of culpability and levels of what constitutes ‘just desserts’, we don’t appeal to a divine certainty. We obey the Church which tells us that justice must first and foremost serve the common good.
 
billcu1 said:
Hum what then is an “infallible” document? The Bible? I wouldn’t
think so. I might be very well wrong. That sounds more like the
protestants.
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Isnt the bible considered infallible on matters of faith and morals (not science or history) when properly intrepreted by the church in light of tradition and the magistrium?

The bible is really a library of documents.

Wouldn’t the apostles creed be considered an infallible document?
 
It’s important to understand the nature and purpose of the Catechism.

The Catechism is ultimately a compendium of Church teaching applied to our present historical context. The teachings contained therein receive their authority from the primary source they are based upon, not by virtue of simply being in the Catechism.

Thus, even within the Catechism, there are some teachings that are more authoritative. Not every paragraph contains equal weight.

The manner in which Pope Francis chose to edit the paragraph in the CCC on the death penalty doesn’t really have precedent. He didn’t issue any sort of apostolic exhortation or motu proprio. It came more in the form of a letter. In making the change, he did not invoke infallibility.

That said, I see no reason why Catholics shouldn’t support the pope in his application of teaching to the present day.

So far, this has been the only modification to the CCC (since all the modifications that were made back in 1997 with the release of the 2nd edition). I recall a news article a few months ago that said Pope Francis was considering adding some things about “ecological sins”. Thus far, nothing has come of that speculation.
 
Joe_5859 said:
The manner in which Pope Francis chose to edit the paragraph in the CCC on the death penalty doesn’t really have precedent. He didn’t issue any sort of apostolic exhortation or motu proprio. It came more in the form of a letter. In making the change, he did not invoke infallibility.

That said, I see no reason why Catholics shouldn’t support the pope in his application of teaching to the present day.
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I support the abolition of the death penalty, and there was some precedent from St John Paul II, but it’s not an infallible teaching. There was a whole book from Ignatius Press arguing for it’s applicability. It’s like the religious liberty question, a matter of changing situations more than infallible teaching.
 
I believe in the death penalty in certain situations, but I think a good part of the “justice” system is based on blind justice and politics. I’d never do jury duty (I’ve refused it) or be a part of the criminal justice system in any form.

I prefer older Catechisms because I find them easier to understand. Not just the Baltimore or Trent. As far as more recent ones, Father John Hardon’s catechisms are AMAZING. I’m going through his pocket catechism now. Your parish library probably has them. Sorry for ranting.
 
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I’m sure you’ll love it! His catechism’s are so readable. It’s amazing to me how he makes things so clear without needing a look things up or refer to another book.
 
billcu1 said:
Hum what then is an “infallible” document? The Bible? I wouldn’t
think so. I might be very well wrong. That sounds more like the
protestants. There is “enchidrion”, bulls. Is there a such thing
as an infallible document. Doesn’t the Pontiff speak for the Holy
Spirit, at times anyway. There is an Orbi et Urbi I believe it’s
called and this is a “work” for an indulgence I believe anyway. Is
Orbi et Urbi speaking for the Holy Spirit? Just trying to learn
more.
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Documents aren’t infallible, infallibility is personal, it is invested in persons. It is a charism given to persons (the Pope for instance), and the charism, or gift, must be used in very specific circumstances. Documents might express infallible teaching, so in that sense you could say a document is infallible.

A particular teaching doesn’t need the stamp of infallible teaching to command the assent of the faithful! So in most of these discussions “infallibility” is a red herring. It’s just not the right term to use. And it’s a primary source of confusion in non-Catholic circles.

The catechism for instance, is the “sure norm of the Catholic faith” and is magisterial.
 
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