Changes to the Mass in the last 5 years?

[1anonymous]

Hello,

I’ve recently returned to the Church after 5 years of absence (praise God ) and now that I’ve gone to Mass I’ve realized some changes in the responses and a couple other things I just cant p(name removed by moderator)oint off the top of my head at the moment. Can anyone tell me what those changes were and (most importantly) why? Thanks for your help

 

[ameliepoir]

I did a quick Google search of changes to the mass in 2011 and found this:
catholicism.about.com/od/worship/a/The-New-Translation-Of-The-Mass.htm

I think a lot of the changes to the English translation of the mass were intended to make it more consistent with the Latin, but I don’t know much beyond that. For example, in the Latin mass when the priest says the equivalent of peace be with you, the people respond “et con spiritu tuo” which would be “and with your spirit” in English, not “and also with you.”

 

[brad90956]

Here are two links that may answer your questions:

saginaw.org/liturgy/the-new-english-translation-of-the-roman-missal.html

ncronline.org/news/new-missal-overview-changes

 

[1anonymous]

Thank you all for your help! This is a question out of ignorance, but how can the words of the Creed be changed? Isn’t this a translation from centuries ago or was the translation wrong? I’m just trying to figure it out. I always remember some people in my circle of friends then talking about the part where it said “We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,” and now it says “And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages.”. You can imagine how that threw me off

 

[ProVobis]

Thank you all for your help! This is a question out of ignorance, but how can the words of the Creed be changed?

I don’t believe it has been changed since the Council of Nicea. The Latin version had the filioque and the Greek version didn’t inter alia. It’s been translated a few times but none of them officially into English until the late 60’s or so.

 

[1anonymous]

I don’t believe it has been changed since the Council of Nicea. The Latin version had the filioque and the Greek version didn’t inter alia. It’s been translated a few times but none of them officially into English until the late 60’s or so.

So the Creed hasn’t changed, just the translation to English?

 

[fan312]

So the Creed hasn’t changed, just the translation to English?

Correct. The translation in English from years ago wasn’t exactly very accurate to the Latin, so they decided to change it later.

 

[1anonymous]

Correct. The translation in English from years ago wasn’t exactly very accurate to the Latin, so they decided to change it later.

Understood…thanks so much to everyone for helping me understand!

 

[GodsGrace154]

Understood…thanks so much to everyone for helping me understand!

Re the creeds, you may want to look into it a bit.

It’s not the translation that changed - the actual creeds changed.

The word “begotten” has caused much misunderstanding and was used by heretics to show that Jesus is a created being and not God.

Just to start you off, there are:

First Council of Nicea 325 AD
First Council of Constantinople 381 AD (it stated the one from 325 was correct)
The Roman Catholic Church (version)
The Apostles Creed (which is used at Mass currently)

You’ll find that each one is different and has theological ramifications.

GG

 

[7_Sorrows]

don’t we use the word consubstantial now? I am going from memory - not from reference.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

Re the creeds, you may want to look into it a bit.

It’s not the translation that changed - the actual creeds changed.

The word “begotten” has caused much misunderstanding and was used by heretics to show that Jesus is a created being and not God.

Just to start you off, there are:

First Council of Nicea 325 AD
First Council of Constantinople 381 AD (it stated the one from 325 was correct)
The Roman Catholic Church (version)
The Apostles Creed (which is used at Mass currently)

You’ll find that each one is different and has theological ramifications.

GG

Help me understand something… are you saying the Church’s version of the Nicene Creed doesn’t match the original? (Why do you say "Roman Catholic Church version?)

Also, the Apostles Creed is an option for Mass, but may not be currently in use everywhere (and for the US, probably NOT most places).

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

don’t we use the word consubstantial now? I am going from memory - not from reference.

We do…

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

don’t we use the word consubstantial now? I am going from memory - not from reference.

Yes. The word consubstantial is in the Nicene Creed. “…consubstantial with the Father…”

 

[GodsGrace154]

Help me understand something… are you saying the Church’s version of the Nicene Creed doesn’t match the original? (Why do you say "Roman Catholic Church version?)

Also, the Apostles Creed is an option for Mass, but may not be currently in use everywhere (and for the US, probably NOT most places).

Each version was different. The early church fathers wanted to make it clear and be understood that Jesus always existed but they had a difficult time with this. As you must know, each one was in response to some heresy and they were trying to rid the church of those.

I said Roman Catholic Version because that’s what it’s called. You could confirm this, please. Every version was “Roman Catholic” !

As for the Apostles’ Creed. You’re right.

GG

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I don’t believe it has been changed since the Council of Nicea. The Latin version had the filioque and the Greek version didn’t inter alia. It’s been translated a few times but none of them officially into English until the late 60’s or so.

The translation in the previous sacramentary was official.

The translation has since been revised in English, with the 3rd edition of the Roman missal, but that does not in any way take away from the fact that what was in English for decades was, in fact, the official rendering of the creed in English…just as there was and is an official rendering of creed in Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Japanese, Korean, and so forth.

 

[ProVobis]

Yes. The word consubstantial is in the Nicene Creed. “…consubstantial with the Father…”

Interestingly enough an older handmissal (mid 19th century) has it “consubstantial TO the Father” as Patri is in the dative case. One can claim that is more literal, but Anglophones seem to have a problem with prepositions these days. The “with” is actually redundant.

 

[Vico]

Re the creeds, you may want to look into it a bit.

It’s not the translation that changed - the actual creeds changed.

The word “begotten” has caused much misunderstanding and was used by heretics to show that Jesus is a created being and not God.

Just to start you off, there are:

First Council of Nicea 325 AD
First Council of Constantinople 381 AD (it stated the one from 325 was correct)
The Roman Catholic Church (version)
The Apostles Creed (which is used at Mass currently)

You’ll find that each one is different and has theological ramifications.

GG

They also call that 381 creed the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, which really did have some changes made to it since 325, such as:

of heaven and earth,

and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary

was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,

and was buried

according to the Scriptures, and

and sitteth on the right hand of the Father

whose kingdom shall have no end.

In one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[GodsGrace154]

They also call that 381 creed the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, which really did have some changes made to it since 325, such as:

of heaven and earth,

and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary

was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,

and was buried

according to the Scriptures, and

and sitteth on the right hand of the Father

whose kingdom shall have no end.

In one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

If one had the inclination, a good study could be done on this and much learned. I ran through it quick about a year ago, but it wasn’t in depth. Each change was made for a reason. Just studying the word “begotten” is interesting. How the early church Fathers explained it, the heresies that were circulating at this time, etc.

GG

 

[Vico]

If one had the inclination, a good study could be done on this and much learned. I ran through it quick about a year ago, but it wasn’t in depth. Each change was made for a reason. Just studying the word “begotten” is interesting. How the early church Fathers explained it, the heresies that were circulating at this time, etc.

GG

studying it is interesting and help to understand the faith. (We has class series on the early councils recently.) Arius taught that Son implies an act of procreation, so he claimed that there was a time when the Son was not, and that only-begotten means Christ was the firstborn of all creatures (before time), so Christ is not co-eternal. No wonder Arianism was denounced.

 

[GodsGrace154]

studying it is interesting and help to understand the faith. (We has class series on the early councils recently.) Arius taught that Son implies an act of procreation, so he claimed that there was a time when the Son was not, and that only-begotten means Christ was the firstborn of all creatures (before time), so Christ is not co-eternal. No wonder Arianism was denounced.

Right. And this idea is around today too –
Also, I’m sure you know that “begotten” means unique, one of a kind - which is how the early church meant the word to be understood - but it’s not understood that way by all. I wish it wasn’t in the Creeds at all…

GG