Changes to the Mass

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Hello, will the changes to the Mass affect The Divine Office? thank you
 
I assume you are talking about the Liturgy of the Hours. I have not heard anything that the English translation of the LotH will be updated.

To be clear, the Mass is not changing, they are only coming out with a new English translation. For those who attend Mass not in English, there will be no changes.
 
Can you elaborate on the changes in “new” English Mass? What are they?
 
ConservativeOne said:
Can you elaborate on the changes in “new” English Mass? What are they?
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The texts have been freshly translated from the Latin. None of the structure of the Mass is changing, only the way it is expressed in words. The USCCB has a good overview page, with links to FAQs, sample texts, and other resources usccb.org/romanmissal/.
 
You can find all sorts of info on the new missal here

usccb.org/romanmissal/#

I’ve asked a few people about changes to the divine office but am consistently getting the answer not any time soon.
 
I know the Creed is changing, so how we pray it in the Rosary and Divine Mercy should change too. I just am trying to see where else these English changes may show up. I would like to get a new set of Daily and Sunday Roman missels but my Catholic Store doesn’t think they will be out for at least a year?
 
We pray the Apostle’s Creed at the beginning of the rosary and the Nicene Creed at Mass, so the rosary will not be effected halx. I don’t know about the Divine Mercy chaplet as I don’t pray it.
 
The changes are merely more accurate translations of the original Latin texts.

The classic example is the translation of: Dominus Vobiscum - Et cum Spirito Tuo

In the 70’s, for whatever reason, this was translated as: The Lord be with you - And also with you.

But that is NOT what the actual Latin means. The actual Latin Translation would be:

The Lord be with you - And with your Spirit (actually it would very directly be “And with your Spirit also”).

ALL of the changes being made are to more accurately translate the original meaning of the Latin prayers. This had already been done with the non-English versions of the Mass, but the English version (which will be use din ALL English speaking countries and areas) had not ever been done properly.

It took a mandate from Pope John Paul II to get that English Mass more accurately translated (he was appalled the first time he celebrated a Mass in English, at just how sloppy it really was) and to make certain that ALL English speaking areas used that more accurate translation to get this done.

We are losing the “feel good” language choices of the 70’s, and getting back to the original meanings and intents of those prayers.

It will be, in effect, a direct translation of the Mass, as it existed prior to Vatican II.
 
The_Old_Medic said:
But that is NOT what the actual Latin means. The actual Latin Translation would be:

The Lord be with you - And with your Spirit (actually it would very directly be “And with your Spirit also”).
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Interestingly, “Dominus vobiscum” doesn’t actually include a verb; it means something akin to what we might phrase, “Lord with ya!” To communicate the precatory aspect without the breeziness, we have traditionally supplied the verb “be.”

And there is no “also” in “Et cum spiritu tuo.” It really does just mean, “And with your spirit” (“tuo” is “your” or “yours,” but in Latin the adjective can be placed after the noun in a way it can’t in English).
 
The_Old_Medic said:
It will be, in effect, a direct translation of the Mass, as it existed prior to Vatican II.
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Huh? It is still the post-Vatican II Mass. In fact, it is the third revision of the Latin Missal which has now been translated; this revision came out in 2000.
 
Revert_43 said:
You can find all sorts of info on the new missal here

usccb.org/romanmissal/#

I’ve asked a few people about changes to the divine office but am consistently getting the answer not any time soon.
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I just took a look at the revisions which are made. Some of the changes are really great, like taking the inclusive language out of the Creed or “blessed are those called to the Supper of the Lamb.” A couple of texts I’m wondering why there was the need to change. The main one I am interested in is “I am not worthy to receive you.” Exactly how is “that you should enter under my roof” the better wording?
 
sulkow82 said:
I just took a look at the revisions which are made. Some of the changes are really great, like taking the inclusive language out of the Creed or “blessed are those called to the Supper of the Lamb.” A couple of texts I’m wondering why there was the need to change. The main one I am interested in is “I am not worthy to receive you.” Exactly how is “that you should enter under my roof” the better wording?
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  1. The new translation of the Creed is an improvement, but there is no “inclusive language” in the current version. If you’ve been saying anything like “for us and for our salvation,” you’ve been doing it wrong. 🙂 And if your priest has been saying “this supper” instead of “his supper,” then he’s been doing it wrong too.
In fact, you may hear more inclusive-sounding language in the new translation. In many of the prayers (which the priests say) in the current translation, phrases like “Sempiterne Deus,” “Domine,” and the like were translated “Father.” Now they will correctly be translated “Everlasting God” and “Lord.” I think the idea of the '73 translation had been to remove stuffy “Almighty”-type language and focus on the family image of God as “Heavenly Dad,” but the net result is that the new translation will, and rightly so, have a lot fewer instances of the gender-specific “Father” than we have now.
  1. “Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under under my roof” is better in that it is a direct translation from the Latin, and a direct quotation from Scripture. (It also brings us in line with the practice in other languages, where people have been saying “enter under my roof,” or at least “enter into my house,” since the beginning.) Part of the purpose of allowing the Mass to be translated into the vernacular in the first place was to open up the richness of the Scriptural references it contains. It’s kind of self-defeating when we then change the words to eliminate it. Here is where the reference comes from:
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 8:5-10[/BIBLEDRB]
 
I’ve always loved the “I am not worthy that you should enter unto my roof” prayer. It gives us a more poetic idea of the glory of God taking His place in our souls. He truly makes a Temple of each of us, and our ‘roof’ is the existential totality of our being. Thanks be to God for such a better translation, as this! 😃
 
This had already been done with the non-English versions of the Mass, but the English version (which will be use din ALL English speaking countries and areas) had not ever been done properly.
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It still won’t be.

In Polish “Dominus vobiscum” translates to “Pan z wami” (no subjunctive, no verb as no verb in the Latin, no 2nd person ambiguity). “Sursum corda/Habemus ad dominum” translates to “W gore serca/Mamy je ku Panu” (“Upwards, hearts/we have to the Lord,” no Cranmer “lift”), inter alia. That said, Polish has a few minor inconsistencies as well. No translations are perfect, if they can be managed at all.
 
ProVobis said:
It still won’t be.

In Polish “Dominus vobiscum” translates to “Pan z wami” (no subjunctive, no verb as no verb in the Latin, no 2nd person ambiguity). “Sursum corda/Habemus ad dominum” translates to “W gore serca/Mamy je ku Panu” (“Upwards, hearts/we have to the Lord,” no Cranmer “lift”), inter alia. That said, Polish has a few minor inconsistencies as well. No translations are perfect, if they can be managed at all.
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You are nit picking. NO translation from one language to another can ever be perfect. In fact, the Polish version that you quote is even FURTHER from the Latin that the current English version is. Your “translation” is not very accurate.

The new Roman Missal will be quite close to what the original Latin is. It will be a VAST improvement over what was done in the 1970’s, when there was a conscious effort to incorporate a lot of “feeling” and “intention”, instead of accuracy in the English version.

A large proportion of the “translators” in the 1970’s attempted to include “inclusive language”, eliminating virtually all masculine pronouns, using “God the Mother”, etc., etc. Unfortunately, some Priests still utilize this kind of language in the Mass (I have reported several of them to their Bishop, and they were required to change those practices).
 
In fact, the Polish version that you quote is even FURTHER from the Latin that the current English version is.
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If you know this for a fact, perhaps I’m wasting my time responding here and you can educate us as to what constitutes closeness to the Latin? Where is the “Lift” in “sursum corda”? Where is the “be” in “Dominus vobiscum”? Seems to me the Polish and others have it right on that one. If anything the Lord is already with us, no? And while we’re at it, how is “hallowed” better than “sanctified”? It seems as if first-year Latin students could have done better than these old Cranmer lines we learned as a profession of faith. There, I’ve made my point and I think I’m done with this thread.
 
The_Old_Medic said:
The changes are merely more accurate translations of
It will be, in effect, a direct translation of the Mass, as it existed prior to Vatican II.
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This is patently untrue. The 1962 Missal and the Novus Ordo Missae have many differences that exist in the original Latin. Much of the Mass was simply ignored in writing the original Latin Novus Ordo Missae. Go through a 1962 Missal and a Novus Ordo Missal side-by-side and you will see the stark differences.
 
The poster did not ask what are the changes in the mass, nor did the poster ask for your opinions on the changes. The question is whether these changes will affect the Divine Office. Please stick to the subject.

Thank You.
 
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