changing of the church

[mikec110]

i guess i was brought up by my parents different. i always went to church and saw pews and kneelers. but now a local church or cathedral rather has taken them away and put in new comfortable chairs and nowhere to kneel down or reflect. they made it more modern, is this what the church is turnng to? can someone explain. also i always had to get dressed up with shirt and tie now people are in jeans and nobody genuflects anymore, it seems like its more of a social gathering than a place of worship and prayer in SILENCE. i am only 26 and i value the old church, with the organ and the calming feeling of beinging in Gods House. now the processional people are carrying flags down the isle and dance! I would love to hear comments, im sure God does not care of the dance and carrying on we do aslong as we pray but i like the reserve at church i had.

 

[totustuusmaria]

mikec110:

i guess i was brought up by my parents different. i always went to church and saw pews and kneelers. but now a local church or cathedral rather has taken them away and put in new comfortable chairs and nowhere to kneel down or reflect. they made it more modern, is this what the church is turnng to? can someone explain. also i always had to get dressed up with shirt and tie now people are in jeans and nobody genuflects anymore, it seems like its more of a social gathering than a place of worship and prayer in SILENCE. i am only 26 and i value the old church, with the organ and the calming feeling of beinging in Gods House. now the processional people are carrying flags down the isle and dance! I would love to hear comments, im sure God does not care of the dance and carrying on we do aslong as we pray but i like the reserve at church i had.

A lot of it is caused by people trying to bring “reform” based on various principles; a lot of it is caused by the general lamentable lack of belief we see in the Western Church today; some of it may be caused by people trying to “implement” Vatican II.

In any case, we need to pray for the Church with tears and fasting because she is like a ship sinking. The Church, from all outward appearances, is in a very bad state right now. Only the mercy and grace of Jesus her Lord can save her from snares of her enemy. Let us pray!

About God not minding the dance, etc–I won’t speak for God, but I do wonder sometimes whether God does mind it. He certainly minds the lack of faith and the lack or care for Him that seems to accompany it.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

One does not require kneelers in order to kneel. I’ve been known to kneel on a cold marble sanctuary floor for extended periods of time, with knees barking at me the whole time. I tell them to keep quiet and offer it up.

 

[totustuusmaria]

Dr. Bombay:

One does not require kneelers in order to kneel. I’ve been known to kneel on a cold marble sanctuary floor for extended periods of time, with knees barking at me the whole time. I tell them to keep quiet and offer it up.

HAHAHA! Then we share something in common. I hated kneelers for so many years because I grew up without them. Now I use them, but sometimes my knees itch for the hard floor and I don’t use them.

 

[Eileen_T]

An elderly priest told me that only novices and seminarians had a problem kneeling for long periods of time, the older priests and nuns developed calluses. LOL

When my mother’s parish built a new church they did away with kneelers so she had some ‘portable’ ones made for her and my brother and they sat in the front row.

mikec110:

it seems like its more of a social gathering than a place of worship and prayer in SILENCE

Today I was sent an email from an Australian priest who found this: Worshiping the Lord in the Beauty of Holinessby Fr. Jay Scott Newman [C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\OLK8\unnamed.htm](C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\OLK8\unnamed.htm)

I may post it as a new thread.

 

[tom.wineman]

When these “reformers” get on their new posture at Mass kicks do they ever ask the people in the pews what want to do ?

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I always thought a person that didn’t kneel was a Protestant

 

[mosher]

No, this is not the direction that the Church is moving in as pertains to Liturgy. In fact, in most places in the country such silliness is finally going away and is being replaced by more traditional expressions of the faith. It sounds like in Rochester, NY you have the same problem as my Cathedral in Santa Fe, NM - an innovator Rector who thinks his opinion of liturgy trumps the traditions of the Church.

 

[Jabronie]

mikec110:

i guess i was brought up by my parents different. i always went to church and saw pews and kneelers. but now a local church or cathedral rather has taken them away and put in new comfortable chairs and nowhere to kneel down or reflect. they made it more modern, is this what the church is turnng to? can someone explain. also i always had to get dressed up with shirt and tie now people are in jeans and nobody genuflects anymore, it seems like its more of a social gathering than a place of worship and prayer in SILENCE. i am only 26 and i value the old church, with the organ and the calming feeling of beinging in Gods House. now the processional people are carrying flags down the isle and dance! I would love to hear comments, im sure God does not care of the dance and carrying on we do aslong as we pray but i like the reserve at church i had.

I’d say find another parish, then write the local priest a letter explaining why you left. And send a copy to the bishop.

 

[Elzee]

Jabronie:

I’d say find another parish, then write the local priest a letter explaining why you left. And send a copy to the bishop.

…and carbon Pope Benedict as well. Seriously. We really need to start making our statements for orthodoxy known.

 

[netmilsmom]

totustuusmaria:

HAHAHA! Then we share something in common. I hated kneelers for so many years because I grew up without them. Now I use them, but sometimes my knees itch for the hard floor and I don’t use them.

At my parish, there are kneelers only in the main. The church has grown so much that they put seats into the fellowship hall and an accordian wall which is opened for the popular masses. When one is back there, we all kneel on the floor. No one complains.
However, my five and eight year old girls have bony knees. When we go for Stations of the Cross (which is filled every Friday, God be Praised!) and kneel for an extended time while most parishes genuflect, I throw their coats on the floor. I can take the cold tile but there is only so much suffering I can ask of these angels!

 

[AltarMan]

tom.wineman:

When these “reformers” get on their new posture at Mass kicks do they ever ask the people in the pews what want to do ?

I always thought a person that didn’t kneel was a Protestant

That’s pretty interesting. I always though those who introduced kneeling into the Church (the Anglo-Saxons) are now Protestants…

 

[totustuusmaria]

AltarMan:

That’s pretty interesting. I always though those who introduced kneeling into the Church (the Anglo-Saxons) are now Protestants…

Our Supreme Pontiff before his election stated:

Kneeling does not come from any culture – it comes from the Bible and its knowledge of God. The central importance of kneeling in the Bible can be seen in a very concrete way. The word proskynein alone occurs fifty-nine times in the New Testament, twenty-four of which are in the Apocalypse, the book of the heavenly Liturgy, which is presented to the Church as the standard for her own Liturgy.

I should think kneeling is just natural. Our Supreme Pontiff seems to have hit it right on the head. Kneeling comes from the Church’s understanding of worship and from the Scriptures. What sources are you getting that the Anglo-Saxons invented Church-kneeling from?

 

[Dr.Bombay]

totustuusmaria:

HAHAHA! Then we share something in common. I hated kneelers for so many years because I grew up without them. Now I use them, but sometimes my knees itch for the hard floor and I don’t use them.

Ah, yes. Mortification is good for the soul! :yup:

 

[paramedicgirl]

totustuusmaria:

HAHAHA! Then we share something in common. I hated kneelers for so many years because I grew up without them. Now I use them, but sometimes my knees itch for the hard floor and I don’t use them.

My 10 year old daughter never uses the kneelers in our chapel where the tabernacle is kept. She always takes the floor, even if she is alone in there. I have never asked her why, but I love to see the good example she sets for other youth (and for adults, as well).