Changing rites/churches sui iuris

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Tradycja

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Is there anyone here who has “changed rites” that could let me see the letter they wrote to their bishop and the Eastern bishop. I talked to my UGCC pastor about changing rites but he wasn’t so versed in the matter because he is from Ukraine and this hardly ever happens.

I want to know what exactly to write in the letter.

I’d be changing from Latin to Ukrainian Greek Catholic.
 
I would suggest writing or calling the Chancery (Bishop’s office), and inquire about the procedure. Just say that you are considering changing rites and would like more information and guidance through the process.

It not like applying to college where you have to write an essay and be accepted - The staff at the Chancery is there to help! 🙂
 
Somebody shared their letter, I forgot if it was here or over at ByzCath. You can use the search function and see if you can dig it up. It was a while ago.
 
Tradycja said:
I talked to my UGCC pastor about changing rites but he wasn’t so versed in the matter because he is from Ukraine and this hardly ever happens.
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Interesting, I never realized that it was so rare in Ukraine. I’m quite surprised.
 
Peter_J said:
Interesting, I never realized that it was so rare in Ukraine. I’m quite surprised.
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Well, they’re already mostly Ukrainian Catholics or Orthodox. Who would ask for canonical transfers?
 
Tradycja said:
Is there anyone here who has “changed rites” that could let me see the letter they wrote to their bishop and the Eastern bishop. I talked to my UGCC pastor about changing rites but he wasn’t so versed in the matter because he is from Ukraine and this hardly ever happens.

I want to know what exactly to write in the letter.

I’d be changing from Latin to Ukrainian Greek Catholic.
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Even though he isn’t “versed in the matter”, is your UGCC pastor supporting you in your desire to make this change of Church? Without him supporting your choice there wouldn’t be a reason to write your Latin bishop since your UGCC pastor will need to affirm your active status in his UGCC parish and his personal support as your pastor of the change you request.

If you do have your UGCC pastor’s support you can PM me and I’d be happy to share what I wrote. The usual generic suggestion I have seen about this is to write as little as needed. My letter was just a few sentences.

Also, I would ask around in your parish to see who else there has made the change and ask them what they did.
 
Tradycja said:
Is there anyone here who has “changed rites” that could let me see the letter they wrote to their bishop and the Eastern bishop. I talked to my UGCC pastor about changing rites but he wasn’t so versed in the matter because he is from Ukraine and this hardly ever happens.

I want to know what exactly to write in the letter.

I’d be changing from Latin to Ukrainian Greek Catholic.
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No induction is allowed: CCEO Canon 31 - No one can presume in any way to induce the Christian faithful to transfer to another Church* sui iuris*.

Merriam-Webster: induce, tr, verb:
1a : to move by persuasion or influence
1b : to call forth or bring about by influence or stimulation
 
Tradycja said:
Is there anyone here who has “changed rites” that could let me see the letter they wrote to their bishop and the Eastern bishop. I talked to my UGCC pastor about changing rites but he wasn’t so versed in the matter because he is from Ukraine and this hardly ever happens.

I want to know what exactly to write in the letter.

I’d be changing from Latin to Ukrainian Greek Catholic.
Vico;9933401:
No induction is allowed: CCEO Canon 31 - No one can presume in any way to induce the Christian faithful to transfer to another Church* sui iuris*
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.

Merriam-Webster: induce, tr, verb:
1a : to move by persuasion or influence
1b : to call forth or bring about by influence or stimulation
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I’m not connecting these dots. :confused:
 
Vico said:
Only that the UGCC pastor and other faithful need to be careful in regard to encouraging transfers.
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Whoever said anyone is “encouraging” transfers? I was the one who brought it up. What the OP was saying is that the pastor should be supportive of the person transferring in THEIR decision to transfer.

People on forums can be really uptight about these kinds of things, whereas the people who grew up in the Eastern Churches are usually pretty easygoing.

I know that everyone should “talk to their pastor” about changing rites or “get a spiritual father” before undertaking any serious prayer, but in the real world people are busy, they have careers, are going to school etc. Add to that that there are three priests that have the job of taking care of probably about a thousand or more faithful that are registered in the parish. Sometimes there is a huge line to talk to the priest after Liturgy and more urgent matters- people sick, people consulting getting married, etc. I think it is an act of charity on my part to do my own research in these matters.

You have to do your own research in these matters. If I always went by the “talk to the priest” mentality, I wouldn’t have learned half of what I know about the Eastern tradition in the first place.
 
Tradycja said:
Whoever said anyone is “encouraging” transfers? I was the one who brought it up. What the OP was saying is that the pastor should be supportive of the person transferring in THEIR decision to transfer.

People on forums can be really uptight about these kinds of things, whereas the people who grew up in the Eastern Churches are usually pretty easygoing.

I know that everyone should “talk to their pastor” about changing rites or “get a spiritual father” before undertaking any serious prayer, but in the real world people are busy, they have careers, are going to school etc. Add to that that there are three priests that have the job of taking care of probably about a thousand or more faithful that are registered in the parish. Sometimes there is a huge line to talk to the priest after Liturgy and more urgent matters- people sick, people consulting getting married, etc. I think it is an act of charity on my part to do my own research in these matters.

You have to do your own research in these matters. If I always went by the “talk to the priest” mentality, I wouldn’t have learned half of what I know about the Eastern tradition in the first place.
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No body said it. I’m sorry you are not getting any help from my post. One thing I can say it that transfers are denied, especially in the traditional territories and even with overlapping jurisdictions, both eastern to eastern and especially eastern to Latin.

Sufficient reasons:
  • Unification of Church sui iuris in a family (mother, father).
  • Return to the Church sui iuris of one’s ancestors.
  • Spouse who wishes to transfer for peace and unity in the home.
  • Physical or moral impossibility by permanent circumstances to use one’s own Church sui iuris.
  • Domicile and or activity among those who are almost all of another Church sui iuris.
  • Entry into religious life under different Church sui iuris.
  • Incardination to serve different Church sui iuris.
Insufficient reasons:
  • Education, attending school or church or sacraments, in another Church, or ignorance of own Church sui iuris with good knowledge of other Church sui iuris.
  • Good for the soul (because all churches are good for the soul).
  • Defects in a Church (because all churches are have defects).
  • Peace of mind or conscience cannot be judged.
 
Vico said:
No body said it. I’m sorry you are not getting any help from my post. One thing I can say it that transfers are denied, especially in the traditional territories and even with overlapping jurisdictions, both eastern to eastern and especially eastern to Latin.

Sufficient reasons:
  • Unification of Church sui iuris in a family (mother, father).
  • Return to the Church sui iuris of one’s ancestors.
  • Spouse who wishes to transfer for peace and unity in the home.
  • Physical or moral impossibility by permanent circumstances to use one’s own Church sui iuris.
  • Domicile and or activity among those who are almost all of another Church sui iuris.
  • Entry into religious life under different Church sui iuris.
  • Incardination to serve different Church sui iuris.
Insufficient reasons:
  • Education, attending school or church or sacraments, in another Church, or ignorance of own Church sui iuris with good knowledge of other Church sui iuris.
  • Good for the soul (because all churches are good for the soul).
  • Defects in a Church (because all churches are have defects).
  • Peace of mind or conscience cannot be judged.
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Well, my own change of Church a few years ago included none of this list of “Sufficient reasons” nor did that of another parishioner in my parish who made the change in the past year. If the OP has spoken with his Eastern Catholic pastor and has that pastor’s support then he should move forward if that is what he wishes to do. I believe there is considerable variation in how different bishops and different Churches handle these things. I don’t think one can expect to have a change of Church granted without the support of the ECC pastor of the ECC parish where one is an active member.
 
5Loaves said:
Well, my own change of Church a few years ago included none of this list of “Sufficient reasons” nor did that of another parishioner in my parish who made the change in the past year. If the OP has spoken with his Eastern Catholic pastor and has that pastor’s support then he should move forward if that is what he wishes to do. I believe there is considerable variation in how different bishops and different Churches handle these things. I don’t think one can expect to have a change of Church granted without the support of the ECC pastor of the ECC parish where one is an active member.
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By support I believe you mean a letter testifying of active participation in the parish to join to. I only gave certain sufficient and insufficient reasons there. There are others which are uncertain.
 
Vico said:
No body said it. I’m sorry you are not getting any help from my post. One thing I can say it that transfers are denied, especially in the traditional territories and even with overlapping jurisdictions, both eastern to eastern and especially eastern to Latin.

Sufficient reasons:
  • Unification of Church sui iuris in a family (mother, father).
  • Return to the Church sui iuris of one’s ancestors.
  • Spouse who wishes to transfer for peace and unity in the home.
  • Physical or moral impossibility by permanent circumstances to use one’s own Church sui iuris.
  • Domicile and or activity among those who are almost all of another Church sui iuris.
  • Entry into religious life under different Church sui iuris.
  • Incardination to serve different Church sui iuris.
Insufficient reasons:
  • Education, attending school or church or sacraments, in another Church, or ignorance of own Church sui iuris with good knowledge of other Church sui iuris.
  • Good for the soul (because all churches are good for the soul).
  • Defects in a Church (because all churches are have defects).
  • Peace of mind or conscience cannot be judged.
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Interesting list, Vico. Could you clarify: is this list your own or did you get it from somewhere?
 
ConstantineTG said:
Well, they’re already mostly Ukrainian Catholics or Orthodox. Who would ask for canonical transfers?
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True, only about 1% (?) of Ukraine is Latin Catholic. But still, I would expect that, out of that 1%, there would be a fair number of transfers.
 
Peter_J said:
True, only about 1% (?) of Ukraine is Latin Catholic. But still, I would expect that, out of that 1%, there would be a fair number of transfers.
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I doubt it. They’re probably be of Polish descent and are in Ukraine because of marriage or because that is where they are when the borders were redrawn. Being Catholic is part of Polish identity especially in the area, contrary to being Byzantine is part of the Ukrainian identity. For example, they don’t differentiate between Gregorian and Julian Calendar. Christmas on the civil December 25 is called “Polish Christmas” and Christmas on the civil January 7 is “Ukrainian Christmas”.

Our priest told me that was the first question his parents asked him when they found out about us following the Gregorian Calendar here in Canada. “Why do you celebrate Polish Christmas?”
 
Vico said:
It is from a Ph.D.Thesis (Ph.D.)–University of Ottawa (Canada), 2001 by Rev. Laszlo Nagy: Transfer of ascription in a church sui iuris with particular application to the archdiocese of Alba-Iulia, Romania, p. 195-196.

ruor.uottawa.ca/en/handle/10393/9020
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Thanks for the clarification & link. (On a side note, I have a number of times heard mention of the anniversaries of the Union of Brest and the Union of Uzhorod, but that’s the first time I’ve heard mention of the anniversary of the Romanian union.)
 
Vico said:
It is from a Ph.D.Thesis (Ph.D.)–University of Ottawa (Canada), 2001 by Rev. Laszlo Nagy: Transfer of ascription in a church sui iuris with particular application to the archdiocese of Alba-Iulia, Romania, p. 195-196.

ruor.uottawa.ca/en/handle/10393/9020
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Union with Rome, by Romanian Orthodox synodal agreement was on September 4, 1700. Orthodox Metropolitan Atanasie of Transylvania was the eparch.
 
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