Changing rites - how do you know?

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Ora_et_Labora_1

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Not that I’m considering it, but I thought I would start this thread out of intellectual/spiritual curiosity.

It is said that we shouldn’t change rite if we aren’t called by God to do so. How then does one know/understand that God is actually calling him to change rite, and that it is not a passing phase? Does it have something to do with how we live our spirituality (with Western Catholics tending to be more “rational” and Eastern Catholics more “mystical”?). I’d really enjoying hearing your views on this, especially those that have changed rites (whichever they may be).
 
As has been frequently said on these fora, one does not “change rites.” One transfers to a different sui juris church.
 
bpbasilphx said:
As has been frequently said on these fora, one does not “change rites.” One transfers to a different sui juris church.
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Sorry. I’m not too familiar with the proper jargon. Always learning 😉
 
bpbasilphx said:
As has been frequently said on these fora, one does not “change rites.” One transfers to a different sui juris church.
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In so doing, one usually also changes the Rite to which one is bound. Most of the time, Change of Rite is congruent to Transfer of Canonical Enrollment.
 
Have you been regularly attending Liturgy at a parish that is of a different rite? If you think you should be in a different rite, you need to immerse yourself in that Liturgy, read their spiritual and theological works. If you feel more natural and at home in that particular expression of the faith than the one you are currently enrolled in, then you can go further in your discernment.
 
No, I haven’t. The question is purely out of curiosity. I have yet to experience the Mass in EF, so at the moment going to other rite masses is out of the question.

The masses that I have a gone to so far always leave me with the sense that something is missing. Not that anything is missing in the spiritual sense (after all, the Lord is present in the holy sacrament), but perhaps on a psychological level one feels that the need for a transcendent, mystical experience is not not fulfilled.

I once went to mass at a SSPX chapel out of curiosity (pardon my ignorance, but is the mass they celebrate EF?) and I have to say that I left the mass feeling rather small and humbled. A very beautiful experience, very unlike any other mass I’d ever been to (I once entered a Ukranian Catholic chapel and got the same feeling).
 
Ora_et_Labora said:
No, I haven’t. The question is purely out of curiosity. I have yet to experience the Mass in EF, so at the moment going to other rite masses is out of the question.

The masses that I have a gone to so far always leave me with the sense that something is missing. Not that anything is missing in the spiritual sense (after all, the Lord is present in the holy sacrament), but perhaps on a psychological level one feels that the need for a transcendent, mystical experience is not not fulfilled.

I once went to mass at a SSPX chapel out of curiosity (pardon my ignorance, but is the mass they celebrate EF?) and I have to say that I left the mass feeling rather small and humbled. A very beautiful experience, very unlike any other mass I’d ever been to (I once entered a Ukranian Catholic chapel and got the same feeling).
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While I can sympathize with your experience, the general guidance is that preference for a particular Liturgy is NOT enough of a reason to switch rites. If the Bishop knows that this is your motive for requesting a transfer, he’ll likely reject it. The desire needs to be deeper than that, as in you relate more to their expressions of faith and viewpoints on theology.

You could always just attend Liturgy at any Catholic Church of any rite and fulfill all attendance obligations. In fact, you’ll have to regularly attend Liturgy and such at your intended transfer Church for a minimum of one year before you can switch.
 
It does sound like you are Latin Catholic. I would suggest first of all that you explore the riches we have in our own tradition. Learn about traditional forms of devotion and piety. Learn about the various religious communities and their spirituality. You may find exactly what you are looking for.

For example, many Catholics have been lured into eastern spiritual ideas (I don’t mean Eastern Orthodox, I mean eastern as in asian - buddism, hinduism, etc.). One of the reasons is that they are looking and liking a sense of mysticism and meditation. But, they have failed to see the depth of mysticism and meditation in their own Church. They are unaware of Saints like Saint John of the Cross and Ignatius of Loyola. They were never informed of Christian meditation like Lectio Divina. There is so much here for them (and likewise in the Eastern Christian Churches for their flock as well) that they really don’t need to go exploring for what they think is lacking.
 
Ora_et_Labora said:
No, I haven’t. The question is purely out of curiosity. I have yet to experience the Mass in EF, so at the moment going to other rite masses is out of the question.

The masses that I have a gone to so far always leave me with the sense that something is missing. Not that anything is missing in the spiritual sense (after all, the Lord is present in the holy sacrament), but perhaps on a psychological level one feels that the need for a transcendent, mystical experience is not not fulfilled.

I once went to mass at a SSPX chapel out of curiosity (pardon my ignorance, but is the mass they celebrate EF?) and I have to say that I left the mass feeling rather small and humbled. A very beautiful experience, very unlike any other mass I’d ever been to (I once entered a Ukranian Catholic chapel and got the same feeling).
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Yes, the Mass celebrated by the SSPX is the EF (and albeit that the SSPX is considered “canonically irregular,” still their liturgies are both valid and licit) so in fact you have assisted at it .

But even it it weren’t, I don’t quite see why you would say that attending Liturgy according to any of the Eastern Rite is “out of the question.” Particularly if you find the Roman Rite OF to … “leave [you] with the sense that something is missing …”

There’s nothing to be lost to attend and see, especially when you say … “I left the [SSPX] mass feeling rather small and humbled. A very beautiful experience, very unlike any other mass I’d ever been to (I once entered a Ukranian Catholic chapel and got the same feeling)”. The EF is a great thing, (I have never been, am not, and never will be, a fan of the Roman Rite OF for a variety of reasons), and likewise the DL (to be economic in terms) is also by its nature a beautiful experience. Try. You may find a “home” in the East, or you may find that you are better suited to the EF. But you’ll never know unless you experience both.
 
malphono said:
Yes, the Mass celebrated by the SSPX is the EF (and albeit that the SSPX is considered “canonically irregular,” still their liturgies are both valid and licit) so in fact you have assisted at it .

But even it it weren’t, I don’t quite see why you would say that attending Liturgy according to any of the Eastern Rite is “out of the question.” Particularly if you find the Roman Rite OF to … “leave [you] with the sense that something is missing …”

There’s nothing to be lost to attend and see, especially when you say … “I left the [SSPX] mass feeling rather small and humbled. A very beautiful experience, very unlike any other mass I’d ever been to (I once entered a Ukranian Catholic chapel and got the same feeling)”. The EF is a great thing, (I have never been, am not, and never will be, a fan of the Roman Rite OF for a variety of reasons), and likewise the DL (to be economic in terms) is also by its nature a beautiful experience. Try. You may find a “home” in the East, or you may find that you are better suited to the EF. But you’ll never know unless you experience both.
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For many Catholics the EF is not an option due to the intransigence or rebelliousness of most bishops. Many areas have no Eastern Rite parishes. In some cases if a Catholic has problems with the OF, there there might be only one other option available, or none. The Eastern Churches did not overhaul their Liturgies after Vatican II. That is a Latin pehenomenon. The roots go back to antiquity. The beauty of the Divine Liturgies is striking. Even in places where the EF is available it is often at odd times, not offered on a regular basis, but sporadic or monthly, and doing it well is a challenge with most priest just learning it. It has to be practiced and studied and the newly designed Churches don’t really fit. Its like wearing a gown or tuxedo to go to dinner at Burger King.

So if there is a Divine Liturgy available and if a person is drawn to it then go there. There is no impediment or restriction. For me the DL lifts up my soul. The prayers have a powerful impact. When I am forced to attend the OF it is annoying. The cantor puts on a show. The choir is up on the altar off to the side. The dozen or so extaordinary ministers are all over the place. It is a circus. I am thankful I have an option.
 
JMJ_coder said:
For example, many Catholics have been lured into eastern spiritual ideas (I don’t mean Eastern Orthodox, I mean eastern as in asian - buddism, hinduism, etc.). One of the reasons is that they are looking and liking a sense of mysticism and meditation. But, they have failed to see the depth of mysticism and meditation in their own Church. They are unaware of Saints like Saint John of the Cross and Ignatius of Loyola. They were never informed of Christian meditation like Lectio Divina. There is so much here for them (and likewise in the Eastern Christian Churches for their flock as well) that they really don’t need to go exploring for what they think is lacking.
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I was actually discussing this with a Catholic friend of mine a while back. Not to be disparaging, but he presented himself as a Cafeteria Catholic leaning towards buddism. He argued that his problems with the Church were the clergy, and also the lack of anything mystical like the Eastern religions have. I tried to correct him (for I once to believed this, after I had left the Church), and explained to him that there are various spiritualities within the Church, etc etc, but he didn’t seem too convinced.

I think the people catechising need to start doing a better job presenting our faith. I only found about all this after I returned to the Church and started looking things up for myself.
 
Ora_et_Labora said:
The masses that I have a gone to so far always leave me with the sense that something is missing. Not that anything is missing in the spiritual sense (after all, the Lord is present in the holy sacrament), but perhaps on a psychological level one feels that the need for a transcendent, mystical experience is not not fulfilled.
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I know that feeling. For me, I got it at both OF and EF masses. I don’t get it at Byzantine DL’s.
Ora_et_Labora said:
I once went to mass at a SSPX chapel out of curiosity (pardon my ignorance, but is the mass they celebrate EF?) and I have to say that I left the mass feeling rather small and humbled. A very beautiful experience, very unlike any other mass I’d ever been to (I once entered a Ukranian Catholic chapel and got the same feeling).
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Yes, the SSPX use the EF of the Roman Mass.

One experience, however, is not enough to make a good judgment, for better or worse; the SSPX, however, are also not in good standing with the Church, and so one is wise to avoid their masses.
 
I went to a sung mass in NYC yesterday. It was good to feel small and humbled again.🙂
 
Ungcsertez said:
Thank you (clap, clap, clap)!👍

U-C
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Worship is very important. The form is important. I sat for about twenty five years going to Mass every Sunday and I was slowly dying spiritually. The homilies were empty and all but useless. The folk group singers were performers. I have probably seen seven or eight priests leave vows from my parishes, one go to jail for a long time and others who still may. I knew something was wrong somewhere, but no what.

I discovered the ancient Divine Liturgy and realized this was real worship. It changed me by lifting my soul to God. There are apparently many people who get the same thing out of the new Mass. It does not work for me.

I have not formally changed rites, because I don’t presently see the need to do that. When I go to a new Mass it is always dissapointing. I think people are being robbed of the beauty of their heritage. This is only one man’s opinion. If I were forced for some reason to go back to the new Mass I don’t think I could do it. If the bishops or majority of them refuse to listen to the pope and the impede his instructions on the EF why should I listen to them and have to suffer through insipid worship? They have presided over a period of the worst scandals in history that have done terrible harm to the faithful, proving their leadership is untrustworthy. They want to restore confidence in themselves and have hired pr firms to help. They need grace not spin. So while the Holy Spirit works on making necessary corrections I choose a form of worship that seems to work for me. The liturgical experiment has failed. The problems will get fixed. It is a matter of when. I can’t wait another forty years, so thank God for the DL.
 
There are few reasons why one would really need to transfer.

Any Catholic can attend and receive the sacraments in churches of any rite without transferring. My sister in law is Ukrainian and belongs to a Latin rite parish with my brother, as I’m sure thousands of others do- because of marriage or other reasons such as living a long distance from their own church or personal preferences.

None the less, you would definitely need to have permission to do so if you go through with it, and be sure as only one transfer is permitted.
 
Actually, the CCEO doesn’t restrict it to one transfer of enrollment.

Generally, only one is granted. However, the CCEO provides some explicit transfers above and beyond normal change of enrollment.

Women who change enrollment to that of their husband at marriage may change back to their original freely at the end of the marriage. Children under 14 are transferred if their catholic parents transfer; at 14 or older, they may revert to original enrollment freely.

If one moves someplace where one is separated from one’s church sui iuris of enrollment, one may opt to change if the move is permanent.

The only compulsory changes of enrollment are for children under 14 when their parents change enrollment, or for those seeking ordination in a church of a different rite than their church of canonical enrollment, who must request and receive permission prior to ordination.
 
Glory to Jesus Christ, Ora et Labora!

In our case, while it was technically a change of Churches (Roman to Byzantine Greko-Catholic), it was really more of a conversion. I know the complimentary two lungs approach is prevalent in parlance, but the two churches are really very different. Different theologies, different ecclesiologies and different spiritualities, for example. It really is a change in practice too.

In my case I had been actively drawn to Eastern Christianity since high school. Many years later I finally entered a Byzantine Greko-Catholic Catholic temple for Divine Liturgy and participated in heaven on earth. I felt the Holy Spirit and was filled with tears. I knew I was home.

Prayers for your discernment.
 
How do you “know”? That is a difficult thing to know exactly, but it should bring a spiritual peace and tranquility. It should never be done hastily but with prayer, patience, discernment, seeking out several Eastern Catholic churches to attend, and obtaining some spiritual fatherhood as well.
FDRLB
 
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