Changing rites in the Catholic Church

[malphono]

The typical Roman “Permanent Deacon” is forbidden to be ordained a priest by Roman Canon Law. He is therefore permanently a Deacon in the sense that he will not rise higher into the hierarchy.

Yes but one has to constantly bear in mind that the vast majority of “permanent deacons” in the Roman Church are married. It stands to reason, then, that “permanent deacons” normally remain static since the current discipline of the Roman Church excludes the ordination of married men to the priesthood. OTOH, I’m familiar with a skant few cases where “permanent deacons” were widowed after ordination, and were eventually ordained to the priesthood.

 

[kaiserhaus]

Deaconissa;

This statement is not true. Deacons are ordained for a particular parish in the Byzantine tradition. This does not mean that the deacon can not move to another parish due to work shifts or whatever, but a deacon is ordained for a particular parish.

Asking a deacon if he’s a "permanent "deacon is like asking a priest if he is a permanent priest. Makes no sense .

I find that interesting, as when he was being ordained, it was for the entire church, not one parish. He freely moves from parish to parish, with needs for each being addressed. Of course, he always is in obedience to our pastor, and seeks this movement with his permission. They do maintain a serving schedule and he tries not to get in the way of that. But he also feels he is serving the entire community, regardless of location. We are considering a large relocation and where he is serving is not even in the picture. Perhaps there is a difference between the legality and actual practice - it has not ever come up. He used to attend daily orthros at a different parish because it was near his work - he still serves there on a somewhat “as needed” basis, even though it is not close to our home, nor is it our home parish. Our parish has members from the greater suburban area, because there are so few Melkite parishes; you have to commute!! :>)

I didn’t even think of the terminology as regards to the priesthood! I have been eastern so long, I totally forgot how the latin rite has that designation - it is a foreign concept in the east. The door to priestly ordination is always open to my husband; however, I doubt it would ever be pursued. If it was, his ordination would not take place on US soil but at the Patriarchate, out of courtesy to the latin church & the agreements made with them regarding the married priesthood. He would not seek ordination unless our personal situation changed - our kids were all financially independent and he was retired with some sort of retirement income, or if I have passed away. It is just too difficult to stay afloat, financially, as a married priest here.

Hope that helps. Of course, it is from someone’s perspective who is in the trenches, living this life on a daily basis. So it is from familiarity with it, not perhaps as a scholar would experience it. Subtle differences, I think.

Blessings…

:byzsoc:

 

[Aramis]

All clerics in major orders are in fact ordained for a particular diocese/eparchy.

A priest or deacon is not incardinated to a single parish, but to a diocese or eparchy, or a particular papal right holy order.

Even a bishop is incardinated to a particular diocese or eparchy; if the diocesan or eparchial bishop, he rules it, and if not, then he is the auxiliary. All the non-diocesan bishops floating around the Curia are incardinated (typically) to Rome.

 

[ConstantineTG]

If you’re swimming the Tiber to become Roman Catholic, and the Thames to become Anglican, what do you swim over to become Eastern Catholic?

 

[Aramis]

If you’re swimming the Tiber to become Roman Catholic, and the Thames to become Anglican, what do you swim over to become Eastern Catholic?

You hike the Caucasus or swim the Bosporus.

 

[ciero]

I find that interesting, as when he was being ordained, it was for the entire church, not one parish. He freely moves from parish to parish, with needs for each being addressed. Of course, he always is in obedience to our pastor, and seeks this movement with his permission. They do maintain a serving schedule and he tries not to get in the way of that. But he also feels he is serving the entire community, regardless of location. We are considering a large relocation and where he is serving is not even in the picture. Perhaps there is a difference between the legality and actual practice - it has not ever come up. He used to attend daily orthros at a different parish because it was near his work - he still serves there on a somewhat “as needed” basis, even though it is not close to our home, nor is it our home parish. Our parish has members from the greater suburban area, because there are so few Melkite parishes; you have to commute!! :>)

I didn’t even think of the terminology as regards to the priesthood! I have been eastern so long, I totally forgot how the latin rite has that designation - it is a foreign concept in the east. The door to priestly ordination is always open to my husband; however, I doubt it would ever be pursued. If it was, his ordination would not take place on US soil but at the Patriarchate, out of courtesy to the latin church & the agreements made with them regarding the married priesthood. He would not seek ordination unless our personal situation changed - our kids were all financially independent and he was retired with some sort of retirement income, or if I have passed away. It is just too difficult to stay afloat, financially, as a married priest here.

Hope that helps. Of course, it is from someone’s perspective who is in the trenches, living this life on a daily basis. So it is from familiarity with it, not perhaps as a scholar would experience it. Subtle differences, I think.

Blessings…

:byzsoc:

Where do you get the idea that an ordination of a married man could not happen on US soil? The Melkites, Ukranians and Romanian Catholic Churches have been ordaining married men in the US for years:shrug:.

As part of the ordination rite of a Byzantine deacon the Protodeacon proclaims as the soon to be ordained deacon is presented to the bishop N is presented for ordination to the holy deaconate, for so & so church.

There are no provisions for a deacon to be transfered (although it does happen). I know a Ruthenian deacon formerly from San Diego who moved to Ohio. Not only a different parish but a different eparchy. This deacon although he serves regularly in Ohio he is still a deacon of the parish in San Diego. Go figure?

 

[Aramis]

Deacons can have their incardination changed, exactly as a priest does.

But, like a priest, the change of incardination is not needed if the receiving bishop, with the original bishop’s permission, blesses the deacon with faculties.

Subdeacons and other minor clerics can also change their enrollment, by the same processes… but seldom do.