Changing the words to the Gloria

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ames61

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I’m at a loss about a new Gloria introduced at my parish. I did a search, and couldn’t find anything on topic in the forum, so I apologize if this is redundant, but I appreciate any (name removed by moderator)ut.

So here’s my question for any liturgy buffs. We now have a 5pm Sunday mass with a Praise Band, and since its inception, our pastor has had a pretty tight reign on things to keep them orthodox.

Well now we’ve started using the Gloria by Mike Anderson written in 1983 which paraphrases the prayer of the Gloria. Oh, and there’s clapping too. So I asked Fr. how its okay to change the words to this beautiful prayer. He said he reviewed it with a director of music at a seminary they both felt it was okay.

On EWTN there were some questions about this Gloria, and the response was that you DO NOT change the words to the prayers. Spelled out pretty clearly in the GIRM. One person replied that it was originally for Children’s Masses as defined in the Directory for Masses with Children, which does allow for changing the words in these masses.

I asked Fr. again with this background, and his reply was that it was a children’s mass (in the past he has insisted that it is not) and that the Holy See defines children as 0-17 and youth as 18-35 for purposes of attending World Youth Day. Well in the DCM these masses are pretty narrowly defined, and our masses don’t meet that definition. Though there is a paragraph about masses with adults when children are present with narrow allowances, then it opens it wide open with something to the effect of “or any of the other adaptations mentioned in this document.”

But this is the Gloria that was used at World Youth Day in Toronto, and he looked at me and said, well if its good enough for the Pope. . . so he thinks its okay.

So first of all, am I off base? If so, do you have anything more that would show me so. Second, if I am not off base, any more documentation to that effect and how far do you take this. I trust this priest, and normally understand his decisions, even if I don’t like them or agree with them. But I just don’t get changing the words to the liturgy.

Thanks & God bless,
Amy
 
I am not sure what version has been introduced, though I know it has been common practice to make some musical alterations. Other places in the Liturgy of the Roman Rite notations are made that certain changes can be made for musical purposes (most notably in the Office). However, I am not certain what the rubrics and GIRM state with regards to the Gloria.

That being said, I understand from some friends that the new vogue use of ELCA (Lutherans) in their modern liturgies is working its way into RC use through several popular composers of modern liturgical music.

In other words, if you hear “Glory to God in the highest, and peace to God’s people on earth”… RUN AWAY!

Rob+
 
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FrRobSST:
I am not sure what version has been introduced, though I know it has been common practice to make some musical alterations. Rob+
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Here are the words:
Refrain: Gloria (clap, clap), Gloria (clap, clap), in excelsis Deo

Verses:
Lord God, heavenly King, peace you bring to us;
we worship you we give you thanks, we sing our song of praise

Jesus, Savior of all, Lord God, Lamb of God,
you take away our sins, O Lord, have mercy on us all.

At the Fathers right hand, Lord receive our Prayer,
for you alone are the Holy One, you alone are the Lord.

Glory, Father and Son, Glory Holy Spirit,
to you we raise our hands up high, we glorify your name.

Some of my questions/problems:
Why replace Almighty God and Father with peace you bring to us? Either would work with the tune. So its not for musical purposes (although it would seem that the music should be at the service of the word, not vice versa). So is there an agenda? If so it makes the whole thing suspect, to me.

The section petitioning to Christ for forgiveness of sins and mercy is distorted and then interupted with a refrain which is further confusing.

To you we raise our hands up high is a completely novel insertion. Why bother inserting things when so much is left out?

There is no Amen.

And lots of other stuff left out. I just don’t get changing the words. Surely there are composers out there who are talented enough to bring music to the prayers without changing the prayer. Why change it? The smallest change can change the meaning, intentionally or unintentionally, why risk it? And even if it doesn’t change it, why open the door to the next guy’s change which might change the meaning. Its just easier to be consistent and say NO CHANGES, rather than risk it.

Its kind of depressing to me. I believe my pastor respects the parts of the mass, but this has me perplexed 😦
 
I would not support the use of this particular version of the Gloria for all of the reasons you noted.

This is not as simple as adding “O” to the line “God, Come to my assistance” in the Divine Office.

Rob+
 
I am very familiar with that version. I had to use it once as a cantor- I left that parish after that (it was especially bad since the organist played way too slow). That song is one of the stupidest songs I’ve come across yet. The words aren’t right, and the clapping may be fun for 2nd graders (NOT in Mass though!), but looks ridiculous when adults are doing it. The parish choir sings it sometimes- the clapping is off, and at the end of each verse, they glissando up a few notes (like a trombone might do), and most of those people can’t do that- it’s not singing- it’s more like squawking. It sounds horrible. I will NEVER use it- If I am ever a music director again, I’ll quit before I do it.
 
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FrRobSST:
In other words, if you hear “Glory to God in the highest, and peace to God’s people on earth”… RUN AWAY!
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Fr. Rob, just for clairification, it’s the eschewing of male pronouns that you’re objecting to here, right? I’m trying my hand at writing/composing a Mass, and so far it’s pretty easy to stick to the words as given in the missalet.

I think we have a very acceptable feminine “persona” to enjoin our affinities: Holy Mother Church. We, all of us, male and female are the bride of Christ.

Maranatha!
 
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jimmytoes:
I’m trying my hand at writing/composing a Mass, and so far it’s pretty easy to stick to the words as given in the missalet.
Maranatha!
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Good luck! Can you try your hand at a Gloria which is “through composed” (I believe is the term) ie exactly the prayer without the refrain inserted, and ending on the Amen? Good Catholic music will always be in demand.

Thanks Fr. Rob for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Amy
 
Hello and Peace be with you. I realise this is an old thread, I found it when searching for the version of Gloria that’s being discussed.

I was a little saddened by the notion that anybody would want to criticise this lovely version. We sing it at our family mass and whilst our performance is far from professional it fills me (and others) with joy! Is it childish? Yes, perhaps. But isn’t that a good thing?

Mark 10:13-16
 
Simon2567 said:
Hello and Peace be with you. I realise this is an old thread, I found it when searching for the version of Gloria that’s being discussed.

I was a little saddened by the notion that anybody would want to criticise this lovely version. We sing it at our family mass and whilst our performance is far from professional it fills me (and others) with joy! Is it childish? Yes, perhaps. But isn’t that a good thing?

Mark 10:13-16
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Here are the words to the “Gloria” which has been part of the mass for years and years.

Glory to God in the highest,

and, peace to his people on earth.

Lord God, heavenly King,
almighty God and Father,
we worship you, we give you thanks,
we praise you for your glory.

Lord Jesus Christ, only Son of the Father,

Lord God, Lamb of God,

you take away the sin of the world:
have mercy on us;
you are seated at the right hand of the Father:
receive our prayer.

For you alone are the Holy One,

you alone are the Lord,

you alone are the Most High,
Jesus Christ,

with the Holy Spirit,

in the glory of God the Father. Amen.

Changing the words and melody to this beautiful prayer is so horribly sad and wrong! 😦

When I sing it my heart and mind are raised to God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I actually get all teared up during it.

When I went to a 5:30 Sunday night mass at our church. They had changed it to the other words mentioned above. It was sung with the contemporary band, and clapping.
We have a new priest and he did not clap. In fact the majority of the people clapping were sixty-plus. I went again when our new priest told us he would be staying for at least three yrs. This same band is now singing the “Gloria” The way it was meant to be sung and I couldn’t be happier! I think he changed it since he knew it was not liturgically correct and he also loves beautiful prayers:)
 
Your description refers not to the Gloria, as official prayer of the Mass, but to a song, what the choir is singing, while supposedly the priest recites the Gloria.

If the local pastor approves that, you may ask questions from the bishop or from the Apostolic See, but unless you get disapproving answer, you shall accept it as licit. The pastor is responsible for the liturgy.
 
onmyknees said:
Changing the words and melody to this beautiful prayer is so horribly sad and wrong! 😦

When I sing it my heart and mind are raised to God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I actually get all teared up during it.

When I went to a 5:30 Sunday night mass at our church. They had changed it to the other words mentioned above. It was sung with the contemporary band, and clapping.
We have a new priest and he did not clap. In fact the majority of the people clapping were sixty-plus. I went again when our new priest told us he would be staying for at least three yrs. This same band is now singing the “Gloria” The way it was meant to be sung and I couldn’t be happier! I think he changed it since he knew it was not liturgically correct and he also loves beautiful prayers:)
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The Gloria will be changed at Christmas (It is not said during Advent.) It will be essentially the traditional Gloria used by the Church of England for centuries.
 
laszlo said:
Your description refers not to the Gloria, as official prayer of the Mass, but to a song, what the choir is singing, while supposedly the priest recites the Gloria.

If the local pastor approves that, you may ask questions from the bishop or from the Apostolic See, but unless you get disapproving answer, you shall accept it as licit. The pastor is responsible for the liturgy.
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Actually, I checked with the CDWDS awhile back and was told that this was an ilicit Gloria. In fact, when I looked at the latest OCP songbook, they moved it to the “hymns” section. It matters not what the priest says about granting permission to use it.

Furthermore, when the CDWDS released the revised English translations, the prefect at the time, Francis Cardinal Arinze, specifically stated in an official letter, that the words are not to be paraphrased nor altered, per Liturgiam Authenticam. In fact, publishing houses have known about this mandate since 2001, when LA was first promulgated.
 
benedictgal said:
Actually, I checked with the CDWDS awhile back and was told that this was an ilicit Gloria. In fact, when I looked at the latest OCP songbook, they moved it to the “hymns” section.
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I have the 2011 Breaking Bread missal, and it is not with the other Glorias in that book.
 
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