Changing Third Orders - Common?

[annalyn]

Truelight, I see you attend the Latin Mass and wanted to share with you that the Friars of the Immaculate have an outstanding 3rd order (MIM) and they also offer the Latin Mass. google and see if they are near you. The saints you are attracted to are the 3rd orders you should explore. I am a Carmelite and after our group disolved, I started attending my husbands 3rd order (Fransican) Although it’s a fabulous order and the meetings are really more spiritually uplifting than mine, I know I’m not called to join it. I’m Carmelite through and through. Thankfully, this 3rd order allows families members to participate in many of it’s conferences and activities.

 

[TrueLight]

Truelight, I see you attend the Latin Mass and wanted to share with you that the Friars of the Immaculate have an outstanding 3rd order (MIM) and they also offer the Latin Mass. google and see if they are near you. The saints you are attracted to are the 3rd orders you should explore. I am a Carmelite and after our group disolved, I started attending my husbands 3rd order (Fransican) Although it’s a fabulous order and the meetings are really more spiritually uplifting than mine, I know I’m not called to join it. I’m Carmelite through and through. Thankfully, this 3rd order allows families members to participate in many of it’s conferences and activities.

Are you speaking of the Third Orders of the Immaculate?

My goodness. They have habits!

 

[TrueLight]

The saints you are attracted to are the 3rd orders you should explore.

Yeah, that’s the problem.

 

[Melchior_1]

Yeah, that’s the problem.

I have something that may help you out a bit. I recall that you saw the thread I made about my own journey with secular orders, but there was something that happened after which I didn’t add to the thread.

In my story about journey, I mentioned my rival in high school who became one of my best friends, and that he joined the Salesians of Don Bosco. He is going to be ordained into the deaconate next year, and he has spent a considerable time in the Holy Lands for his seminary formation. Here’s what he sent me:

“I remembered you at mass, about you’re questioning of a 3rd order. I have learned the “spirituality of geography” in Israel. God chose a certain time, place and people to become Incarnate in. the Holy Land is no accident. Now, for yourself, there is no Salesian Co-Operators unit in your area, so I would take that as a sign that your calling is to a 3rd Order that you can reach easily. Although, I would keep a strong devotion of Francis de Sales, the master par excellance of lay holiness. I am happy that you are going in this direction. 3rd Orders are great ways of focusing your prayer, spiritual direction, and general outlook. I think many people have poor or mediocre spiritual lives because they are always taking spirituality cafeteria style. Both the Dominicans and Franciscans will have profound meat from which to feed, both are complementary and focusing on one will not cause you to regret your decision. Choose without anxiety kowing that both are good. Consider St. Ignatius of Loyola’s discernment. Write down the pros and cons of each, even the most mundane or seemingly unimportant reasons, and pray over them. Then choose with serenity”.

This was incredibly fascinating to me. I couldn’t believe I didn’t pick up on the “spirituality of geography” earlier, and I immediately began to contemplate it further and flesh out the concept more.

There was no Salesian Co-Operators (their Lay Associates) in my area. To join the Secular Franciscans I would have to travel a fair bit in my city, and would likely need to stop volunteering at my parish, which I don’t feel called to do as for yet. Logistically, one was impossible, the other very difficult. The Lay Dominicans on the otherhand, their meetings are less often, and they encourage to stay in your parish.

“Spirituality of geography”. Perhaps that could be applicable for yourself.

 

[TrueLight]

“Spirituality of geography”. Perhaps that could be applicable for yourself.

I know that the OCDS and Dominicans are easily accessible to me geographically. I’m pretty sure the SFO is nearby as well as I heard there are two people in our traditional parish who have started formation. So I have at least three easily accessible secular orders nearby.

I know I don’t sound like it, but I really am not in a hurry.

How open are the Dominicans to visitors?

 

[Melchior_1]

I know that the OCDS and Dominicans are easily accessible to me geographically. I’m pretty sure the SFO is nearby as well as I heard there are two people in our traditional parish who have started formation. So I have at least three easily accessible secular orders nearby.

I know I don’t sound like it, but I really am not in a hurry.

How open are the Dominicans to visitors?

Those of us here on the Vocations sub-section know you’re not in a hurry, my friend. You likely feel that God is calling you to a secular order, you’re just trying to discern which one God wants you to join.

Basing things off of what my friend said, you have three options. Keep in mind the varying commitment levels of the three orders as well, some may have more time commitments. But if they’re all close by, why not visit all three?

In my area the Dominicans are incredibly open to visitors, although to be fair they also run a college/university, so they are that way by nature due to the environment. From the looks of the FB page jwinch set up, the fellows in his area seem pretty solid too. That’s the key; it’s only as good as the people involved (like anything, really).

 

[TrueLight]

Those of us here on the Vocations sub-section know you’re not in a hurry, my friend. You likely feel that God is calling you to a secular order, you’re just trying to discern which one God wants you to join.

Basing things off of what my friend said, you have three options. Keep in mind the varying commitment levels of the three orders as well, some may have more time commitments. But if they’re all close by, why not visit all three?

In my area the Dominicans are incredibly open to visitors, although to be fair they also run a college/university, so they are that way by nature due to the environment. From the looks of the FB page jwinch set up, the fellows in his area seem pretty solid too. That’s the key; it’s only as good as the people involved (like anything, really).

Cool thanks.

im going to ask a Dominican…umm… aspirant (don’t know the name of the first stage), who I’m sure I’ll see tonight at mass, if I can come visit one of her meetings.

 

[Melchior_1]

Cool thanks.

im going to ask a Dominican…umm… aspirant (don’t know the name of the first stage), who I’m sure I’ll see tonight at mass, if I can come visit one of her meetings.

Good idea! I’m sure they won’t mind.

Although to be fair, I’d like to think that what you see on these boards is a representation of the best Dominicans and Franciscans can offer, but I can’t promise you that offline it will be the same.

 

[puzzleannie]

Has anyone ever joined a Third Order then realized that another spirituality fit them best?

In that case, what are the options?

• Can you leave and join another?
• Can you be part of more than one?

Yes, I know it is important to discern, but does this ever happen?

people do it so yes it is possible, but not always desireable. For instance, one would want to avoid the habit of changing spiritualities by going from one to another always looking for some new emotional or spiritual high or experience. That really should be discerned with a spiritual director. For instance, one of the promises Benedictine oblates make is stability, remaining as an oblate for life, and maintaining the affiliation to that monastery for life. So we would not change without a very good reason, yet I knew former oblates (or inactive oblates) who have been, in succession, secular franciscans, lay carmelites and other tertiaries.

 

[TrueLight]

Good idea! I’m sure they won’t mind.

Although to be fair, I’d like to think that what you see on these boards is a representation of the best Dominicans and Franciscans can offer, but I can’t promise you that offline it will be the same.

Ha ha okay.

I’m also interested in what happens at the meetings. For example if a meeting is basically lectures, but no focus on praying, I probably won’t be so interested and vice versa.

Yeah, I want it all!

 

[TrueLight]

people do it so yes it is possible, but not always desireable. For instance, one would want to avoid the habit of changing spiritualities by going from one to another always looking for some new emotional or spiritual high or experience. That really should be discerned with a spiritual director. For instance, one of the promises Benedictine oblates make is stability, remaining as an oblate for life, and maintaining the affiliation to that monastery for life. So we would not change without a very good reason, yet I knew former oblates (or inactive oblates) who have been, in succession, secular franciscans, lay carmelites and other tertiaries.

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Melchior_1]

Ha ha okay.

I’m also interested in what happens at the meetings. For example if a meeting is basically lectures, but no focus on praying, I probably won’t be so interested and vice versa.

Yeah, I want it all!

This I can promise you; when you find the one that God is calling you to you will have it all. It won’t be be “the all” for others, but for you it will be.

 

[TrueLight]

This I can promise you; when you find the one that God is calling you to you will have it all. It won’t be be “the all” for others, but for you it will be.

Thank you.

 

[iloveangels]

Has anyone ever joined a Third Order then realized that another spirituality fit them best?

In that case, what are the options?

• Can you leave and join another?
• Can you be part of more than one?

Yes, I know it is important to discern, but does this ever happen?

I’ve heard of several cases of this. Sometimes it seems to work out okay, and then sometimes it doesn’t, which probably depends on the reason the person changes.

 

[jwinch2]

I’ve heard of several cases of this. Sometimes it seems to work out okay, and then sometimes it doesn’t, which probably depends on the reason the person changes.

As I noted earlier in this thread, formation in most lay orders is a very long process. In the case of the Dominican laity, it is upwards of 5 years. Of course during the inquiry phase and the novitiate phases people may come and go but otherwise by the time they are approaching final professions, there should be no question as to whether they are called to that spirituality and willing to live that Rule.

Peace,

 

[TrueLight]

I’ve heard of several cases of this. Sometimes it seems to work out okay, and then sometimes it doesn’t, which probably depends on the reason the person changes.

I actually met a guy recently who was a Franciscan Brother, than a Carmelite for a short time, then a discalced lay carmelite.

 

[barb_finnegan]

I was in two Third Orders in succession.

First one was the Franciscans (SFOs). I joined in 1979 and was professed in 1980. I was in it until 1988, when I ended up walking out of the meeting over my fraternity’s plans to go off and ‘do their own thing’ regardless of what the leaders above them wanted them to do. The people in charge of the fraternity I was in didn’t want to listen to me, so I just gathered up my things and walked out.

Then in 1994 I heard about plans to start a Discalced Carmelite (ODCS) lay group in my area. I attended the introductory meeting, and in early 1995 I was given the large Brown Scapular. I made my Temporary Promise in 1997, but I was not permitted to make my Final Promise in 2000. In late 1999, I had to undergo a rigorous written and verbal evaluation by the priest who was the spiritual director and the laywoman who was the formation director.

I didn’t ‘measure up’ to their standards (they were especially concerned that I didn’t go to confession often enough), so I was ‘charitably dismissed’ from the community. My last meeting was in February 2000-the very day I would have been professed.

When I was preparing to go to the Carmelites, I wrote to the Franciscans for dispensation from my Profession of 1980. And when I got the dismissal letter from the Carmelites, I was dispensed from my Temporary Profession of 1997.

I guess I’m just not very good with ‘groups’…

 

[iloveangels]

I was in two Third Orders in succession.

First one was the Franciscans (SFOs). I joined in 1979 and was professed in 1980. I was in it until 1988, when I ended up walking out of the meeting over my fraternity’s plans to go off and ‘do their own thing’ regardless of what the leaders above them wanted them to do. The people in charge of the fraternity I was in didn’t want to listen to me, so I just gathered up my things and walked out.

Then in 1994 I heard about plans to start a Discalced Carmelite (ODCS) lay group in my area. I attended the introductory meeting, and in early 1995 I was given the large Brown Scapular. I made my Temporary Promise in 1997, but I was not permitted to make my Final Promise in 2000. In late 1999, I had to undergo a rigorous written and verbal evaluation by the priest who was the spiritual director and the laywoman who was the formation director.

I didn’t ‘measure up’ to their standards (they were especially concerned that I didn’t go to confession often enough), so I was ‘charitably dismissed’ from the community. My last meeting was in February 2000-the very day I would have been professed.

When I was preparing to go to the Carmelites, I wrote to the Franciscans for dispensation from my Profession of 1980. And when I got the dismissal letter from the Carmelites, I was dispensed from my Temporary Profession of 1997.

I guess I’m just not very good with ‘groups’…

It happens. In this region, we have one man who was in formation with the Carmelites who’s now in the SFO, but often it goes the other way around. This does happen, but sometimes it’s really difficult to change after a lot of formation with one group. And not everyone is meant to be in an order like this. Some people are meant to work in the church in other ways, which are just as good, but different. Everybody has a role to play. The tough part can be finding out what it is.

 

[TrueLight]

I was in two Third Orders in succession.

First one was the Franciscans (SFOs). I joined in 1979 and was professed in 1980. I was in it until 1988, when I ended up walking out of the meeting over my fraternity’s plans to go off and ‘do their own thing’ regardless of what the leaders above them wanted them to do. The people in charge of the fraternity I was in didn’t want to listen to me, so I just gathered up my things and walked out.

Then in 1994 I heard about plans to start a Discalced Carmelite (ODCS) lay group in my area. I attended the introductory meeting, and in early 1995 I was given the large Brown Scapular. I made my Temporary Promise in 1997, but I was not permitted to make my Final Promise in 2000. In late 1999, I had to undergo a rigorous written and verbal evaluation by the priest who was the spiritual director and the laywoman who was the formation director.

I didn’t ‘measure up’ to their standards (they were especially concerned that I didn’t go to confession often enough), so I was ‘charitably dismissed’ from the community. My last meeting was in February 2000-the very day I would have been professed.

When I was preparing to go to the Carmelites, I wrote to the Franciscans for dispensation from my Profession of 1980. And when I got the dismissal letter from the Carmelites, I was dispensed from my Temporary Profession of 1997.

I guess I’m just not very good with ‘groups’…

God has other plans for you.

 

[barb_finnegan]

God has other plans for you.

Oh yeah? WHAT sort of ‘plans’?

I guess I must be spiritually ‘tone-deaf’ then…

I’m just not good with groups. Once burned, twice shy, as the saying goes…