Charismatic Catholic Experiences

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Joysong:
Dear DeLorean_Boy,

As a footnote, I mention the superiority of prophecy, so loved by St. Paul in 1 Cor. 14:3, “But he who prophesies speak to men for edification and encouragement and consolation.” And he even teaches us to strive for this gift.

Common thinking about this gift is that a person has the ability to fortell future happenings, but this is not the meaning of St. Paul’s letter. Some who speak to others for their upbuilding and encouragement, are aware of a particular unction in their heart as the Spirit inspires their thoughts. They then speak out for the benefit of the hearer using their own composition of words – yet the thought comes from God.

On the other hand, there are multitudes of people who speak for God who are not aware or sensitive to this particular “anointing,” but they truly exercise the gift of prophecy in the sense of reaching out to build up their fellow man. I’m sure you can think of many examples of this, and probably know when God has touched you through another’s words.

I have loved for many years, the prayer of Tobias, Ch. 13:16, “And blessed shall they be that shall build thee up.” God’s ministry, par excellance!

🙂 Carole
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Well put Carole

I think there are several main purposes for prophecy.
One is to encourage others. Barnabus means “son of encouragement” so he was abviously very good at this.
Another is to give warnings when people are straying from God (I’m thinking here are many of the Old Testament prophets)
Another is prophecy of the future. Again look at the OT for good examples of this in the prophecies of the coming Messiah.
And then there are people who give mesages from God (like in Acts I quoted above). We have to be very careful about this though (well about all prophecy) as we are told there are many false prophets.
 
Dear Steve,

Your posts are very enlightening and uplifting! I had forgotten about the prophetic message of warning, and I agree that some have a special gift to see the future. We especially need to test the spirit in these two manifestations. The Church is rich with good and saintly guidance to help us discern.

PS - St. Barnabus is one of my favorites!

🙂 Carole
 
RobertAF,
you mentioned this “baptism of the Holy Spirit”
I did not understand what you ment by this, since I am not a
charismatic. So I looked it up and found this.

by Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, OFMCap
SUMMARY: The Baptism in the Spirit is not a sacrament, but it is related to several sacraments. The Baptism in the Spirit makes real and in a way renews Christian initiation. At the beginning of the Church, Baptism was administered to adults who converted from paganism and who, made on the occasion of Baptism, an act of faith and a free and mature choice. Today it is substituted instead by intermediary parents or godparents. In this situation, rarely, or never, does the baptized person ever reach the stage of proclaiming in the Holy Spirit “Jesus is Lord”. And until one reaches this point, everything else in the Christian life remains out of focus and immature. Miracles no longer happen and we experience what Jesus did in Nazareth: “Jesus could not perform many miracles because of their lack of faith” (Mt.13.58). The Baptism in the Spirit’s effectiveness in reactivating baptism consists in this: finally man contributes his part – namely, he makes a choice of faith, prepared in repentance, that allows the that allows the work of God to set itself free and to emanate all its strength. It is as if the plug is pulled and the light is switched on. The gift of God is finally “untied” and the Spirit is allowed to flow like a ftragrance in the Christian life.

I was wondering if this is a correct view of the charismatic idea of “baptism of the Holy Spirit”?
 
I have been to a few Catholic Charismatic Masses in the past 20 years. I absolutely love them. :love: Wish I had more around here to go to.
 
hey Joysong,
Thanks for the reply, Yes I am struggling hard to understand
this movement and its purpose.
It seems that St Paul wrote specifically against these seperate
cliques, in reference to the Charisms. It seems to stem directly from over-emphasis on certain gifts.

“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit” (I Corinthians 12:13).

Of course this is once again my private interpretation of this passage. I find the whole of Ch12 quite informative, and I think its clear from the contex that St Paul is admonishing a specific movement much like todays renewal. I think this goes along also with the Church’s excommunication of groups in the middle ages, who expressed some similar views to todays charismatics.

Thats my two cents, feel free to correct me 👍
 
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contemplative:
I have been to a few Catholic Charismatic Masses in the past 20 years. I absolutely love them. :love: Wish I had more around here to go to.
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I haven’t been to one in over 25 years and if available in my area, I would most definitely go again from time to time…spent some of the best years of my life in the CCR…:yup:
 
“I don’t know about 1000! I’ve heard people talk about 20-30 charismatic gifts. But I think there can be too much emphasis on the “extraordinary” gifts like miracles and deliverance. There are what the CCC calls the “simple and humble” gifts like helping (1 Pet 4:11) and administration (Rom 12:7). These charismatic gifts are given to help us serve others in the church. As someone put it we are channels of God’s gifts to others. Many gifts are more the Holy Spirit enhancing natural talent in the service of the Church like the natural talent for helping, or administration or music. So these gifts may be being used regularly in your parish with people really putting that label on them.” quote steve99

Hey steve, good to hear from you.
From what you and robert and joysong have been saying, it now seems that you have broadened what it means to be charismatic, in relation to your earlier posts.
It seems now, as I asserted a couple days ago, that really all good Catholics in the state of grace are charismatic.
 
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delorean_boy:
It seems now, as I asserted a couple days ago, that really all good Catholics in the state of grace are charismatic.
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I’d say that is a fair assertion since when we are Baptized the Holy Spirit gives us His Gifts…And, at Confirmation we receive an increase and if one is “open” in the CCR, a deepening of them…
 
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Annunciata:
I’d say that is a fair assertion since when we are Baptized the Holy Spirit gives us His Gifts…And, at Confirmation we receive an increase and if one is “open” in the CCR, a deepening of them…
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See this is exactly what im talking about.
What is ment by this openness???
Why must I be part of the renewal to receive this “deepening”???
 
Hi again Delorean Boy,

Lots of folks have spent many words answering a lot of questions and it would appear that you finally came down to the main one you needed to ask.

“Why must I be part of the renewal to receive this “deepening”???”

YOU don’t. This works for us who are drawn to and love the CCR. Other folks find other ways to “deepen” their walk and life with God.

The CCR has brought me closer to Holy Mother Church and my brothers and sisters. My love for the Sacraments and especially with the Holy Eucharist has been profoundly deepened.

It has happened without my ever having had the questions you have asked, answers. I knew the Holy Fathers had encouraged and recommended it and I knew it was very scriptural. I knew I adored the Holy Trinity and that was all I needed. It was easy to accept because it is part of my Catholic Faith.

Maybe you can have all these questions, search for answers to them and finally embrace the CCR, I don’t know. It hasn’t been that way for me.

I am guessing from your posts that even though you have curiosity about the Renewal, you aren’t especially attracted to it. That is fine. Holy Mother Church is Huge and She has many many ministries and groups that bring folks to a true heart conversion.

I have no desire to drive you away, but do you see the time being wasted dwelling over all these questions when you can be worshipping and adoring our Lord? He is right there waiting to throw His arms around you and hug you. Why not let go of the questions and just let Him draw you to Him in the deepest way possible.

That is what it is all about. It isn’t about who has which gift or what the history of the thing is. It is about having a deep love affair with the Lord and with your brothers and sisters.
 
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delorean_boy:
Hey steve, good to hear from you.
From what you and robert and joysong have been saying, it now seems that you have broadened what it means to be charismatic, in relation to your earlier posts.
It seems now, as I asserted a couple days ago, that really all good Catholics in the state of grace are charismatic.
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I would prefer to put it that perhaps we have clarified what we meant in earlier posts.
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  A few points I would like to pick up on.
I don’t think that Delorean Boys’s comment “I find the whole of Ch12 quite informative, and I think its clear from the contex that St Paul is admonishing a specific movement much like todays renewal.” is fair. Clearly there were problems with some people getting into factions but this is just what we humans do much of the time. See Lk 22:24, 1Cor 1:10-16, Eph 4:1-6, or indeed probably any parish you care to name. Renewal is not exclusive, or I hope a clique.

Some people are “in” renewal in the sense that they go to charismatic prayer meetings, charismatic masses charismatic conferences, and may seek to promote the renewal, but this is no more exclusive than people that go to Cursillo meetings, Union of Catholic Mothers (now that’s exclusive –they won’t let me in), Opus Dei, Latin Masses etc. But this does not mean that others do not have, or use charismatics gifts

Why don’t we hear people speaking in tongues at Sunday Mass? Now that probably would be divisive and cliquey, unless the majority were either “charismatics” or at least comfortable with this way of praying.

But the movement does try to promote the understanding and use of these charismatic gifts. At the prayer meeting I go to there is time of praise, teaching, a time for prophecy and prayers for healing with prayer teams praying individually over people. And don’t think it is all happy clappy, as some people think. As I said at our prayer meeting we have times of joyful praise, as well as the other things. And we finish with about half an hour of Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament.

But these things should be more into the normal life of the Church (well I think so). We are blessed in our parish by a priest that is in renewal. He has introduced prayers for healing after one Sunday Mass. Those that want to receive prayer in this way go to one of the prayer teams. Those that don’t, don’t go. Nothing exclusive, nothing forced.
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 Finally I wouldn’t say that all good Catholics in a state of grace are charismatic, *in the sense that* being a good Catholic and being in a state of grace is to do with personal holiness. Being charismatic is more to do with actively using the charismatic gifts, or perhaps allowing the Holy Spirit to work through us to help others by using these gifts might be a better way to put it
I like a description of Jesus in the New Jerome Biblical Commentary as a “charismatic layman”. And its true - he was.
 
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robertaf:
Hi again Delorean Boy,

Lots of folks have spent many words answering a lot of questions and it would appear that you finally came down to the main one you needed to ask.

“Why must I be part of the renewal to receive this “deepening”???”

YOU don’t. This works for us who are drawn to and love the CCR. Other folks find other ways to “deepen” their walk and life with God.

The CCR has brought me closer to Holy Mother Church and my brothers and sisters. My love for the Sacraments and especially with the Holy Eucharist has been profoundly deepened.

It has happened without my ever having had the questions you have asked, answers. I knew the Holy Fathers had encouraged and recommended it and I knew it was very scriptural. I knew I adored the Holy Trinity and that was all I needed. It was easy to accept because it is part of my Catholic Faith.

Maybe you can have all these questions, search for answers to them and finally embrace the CCR, I don’t know. It hasn’t been that way for me.

I am guessing from your posts that even though you have curiosity about the Renewal, you aren’t especially attracted to it. That is fine. Holy Mother Church is Huge and She has many many ministries and groups that bring folks to a true heart conversion.

I have no desire to drive you away, but do you see the time being wasted dwelling over all these questions when you can be worshipping and adoring our Lord? He is right there waiting to throw His arms around you and hug you. Why not let go of the questions and just let Him draw you to Him in the deepest way possible.

That is what it is all about. It isn’t about who has which gift or what the history of the thing is. It is about having a deep love affair with the Lord and with your brothers and sisters.
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Very well,
This will be my last post on this subject, Im sorry you found this
discussion to be a waste of time. Hopefully Our Lord will
forgive me and allow me me to make it up to him.
I personally have no interest in joining the renewel. I have heard about it since I was little kid, so in seeing you guys talk about it on here I thought I would try to learn something about it. The reasons for the questions is because I keep getting more confused with each answer. I guess I will just have to believe that its the work of the Holy Ghost.
 
Oh Dear
I am truly sorry. I must not have explained myself well because I did not mean to admonish you. I was only trying to answer that one very good question.

I said I was not trying to drive you away, only to give the best answer I knew how to. The last thing I would ever want to do is hurt you and I do apologize and bet forgiveness if that has happened.

Please do stay around and chat on the subject.

In the meantime, forgive an old gal who was trying to post, tired and late at night.
 
Dear DeLorean_Boy,

Your heart is very sensitive, I see. I learned that you want to be a priest and are very orthodox, which explains your nervousness about the charismatic movement in the Church. Reading between the lines, I get the feeling you have many suspicions and are trying to reconcile them.

Roberta spoke well when she tried to show that there are many wonderful ways to find and commune with God and truly become holy and pleasing to Him. CCR is only one way, suited for particular personalities that God sees will profit from it. Think for a moment about the lovely little violets that grow only in the shade, as opposed to the giant sunflowers for whom shade would stunt their growth.

You see then, that God reaches out to touch all of His people in the way they each can best grow into full stature. Holiness, as Roberta said, does not depend upon having “charisms” or belonging to this movement, as if you will miss out on something special if you are not attracted to it. I made the same mistake when the movement began in 1967, thinking it was the latest and greatest, yet I found that my spirit was not particularly in tune.

Did that mean I lost out on the Holy Spirit’s guidance and giftedness? Certainly not. If you have studied about the seven gifts of the Spirit that we receive in Confirmation, the Lord will perfect these in a marvelous manner as we remain faithful to His inspirations. Since you are a potential seminarian, I’m thinking about a wonderful book they used in the seminary called, “The Spiritual Life” by Rev. Adolph Tanquerey. As you read therein the description of the gifts of counsel and knowledge, you will see that these can be experienced so fully as to equal the charismatic gift of prophecy. Etc., etc. Yet it is the same Holy Spirit operating in us all.

Be at peace, and God bless your continual desires to serve Him.

http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Carole
 
Like all spiritual renewals in the Church, the CR needs spiritual direction.

In my own life, and in many others, it has served as a tool to awaken a desire to read Scripture and pray more.

In the diocese that I am in I have seen a a very strong devotion to the Mass and Eucharistic Adoration grow through through the renewal. We have a priest who gives us spiritual direction for the renewal as a whole, and he is our liaison to the Bishop.

I would hope that those who are “turned off” to the renewal for whatever reason, do not discourage others from getting involved.

Peace,

Dorothy
 
I would hope that those who are “turned off” to the renewal for whatever reason, do not discourage others from getting involved.
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Amen!!
(Is this Dorothy B???)
 
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delorean_boy:
See this is exactly what im talking about.
What is ment by this openness???
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I guess just try to not prejudge it. There is much negative press around, but do not explore it from a negative light. As so many people have said being Charismatic is not exclusive to CCR. There are characteristics of both—some are common to both, but others are not. You do not need to manifest all the gifts to be Charismatic. And if you do not like tongues or exuberant praise CCR is not for you.
Why must I be part of the renewal to receive this “deepening”???
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I know this was answered (many times–if you look at old threads).
No, it is not necessary, and as I said if you do not like tongues or loud prayer, it is not even helpful.

High, exuberant praise is so beneficial to us—God does not need it, but He wants it because He loves us and it is very uplifting to us.

Praying in tongues is such pure prayer—the mind does not interfere with the Spirit we use our voice, but not our mind.

When you attend a prayer meeting, many people are praying for the release of the Gifts. We are told that group prayer is stronger than individual prayer, so we must believe that it would be better to ask for the gifts in a group, than to pray alone.
 
<<Amen!!
(Is this Dorothy B???)>>

Yes, that’s me! Any hints as to whom I am writing to?
 
<<Sue from InUnity–How are you?>>

Good…thank you! Glad to see you here.
 
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