Charismatic Catholic Experiences

[Highway_of_Life]

Listener:

I had a very positive Charismatic Catholic experience today. The closing Mass for the Charismatic Conference in Everett, WA, was at noon today in Immaculate Conception Church. The priest who said Mass was Father Tom Forrest, a Redemptorist priest. Here is a quote from the program:

“He has been involved in Catholic Charismatic Renewal since 1971 and served as director of the International Office for CCR from 1978 to 1984. He has spoken in 105 different countries and his articles and books have been translated into many languages. He is currently the International Director of Evangelization 2000, a Catholic effort to promote Church renewal through prayer, proclamation of the Word and the formation of a more evangelistically activated people of God. Fr. Tom is a recipient of the Papal Medal, Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice (for the Church and the Pope).”

Wow! That’s a mouthful, especially for those of you who don’t think that the Pope approves of the Charismatic Renewal. The man looked very old, and he could preach almost like Billy Graham. I saw him for a minute afterward and had him give me a blessing–people were lining up for this.

I came home feeling very blessed, peacful, and refreshed. Unfortunately, I couldn’t make it to the rest of the conference. If anyone here did, it would make a nice subject for this thread.

Wow! cool!
I wish I could have been there.

Have you heard of Father Tom Foster, I don’t know Fr. Tom Forrest, but Fr. Tom Foster is an increadible speaker, one of the best. He always gets under an annointing of the Holy Spirit, and his Homilies and talks are really powerful.

Oh, yeah… BTW he is Charismatic

CatholicDude, I can see that you felt a need for intense worship and fellowship with other believers who were/are excited about Jesus.
One of things I would do, if you don’t have a Catholic Charismatic community nearby, go to both Churches, because Mass is so important (the Eucharist) but also, other aspects are just as important. But I would not neglect one for the other. Therefore, the easiest way to solve the problem (that I can see) is to attend both Churches every weekend. Like on on Saturday night, the other on Sunday morning.

Blessings!
Highway of Life

 

[Turtledove]

Hi guys,

For all you disenters, please remember that CCR is an approved OPTION for worship WITHIN the Catholic Church.

If you choose to worship in this manner, and find the high praise and openness to the manifestations of the Holy Spirit through this worship helpful in your journey—Thank God.

But for other Catholics, who do not like this form of Catholic worship, and choose a different manner, just worship as you choose, but please do not be disrespectful or irreverent to this approved form of worship, and its members.

Dove

 

[threej_lc]

Listener:

I had a very positive Charismatic Catholic experience today. The closing Mass for the Charismatic Conference in Everett, WA, was at noon today in Immaculate Conception Church.

I wanted to go to that conference so badly!!! Could you give us a detailed description of the entire weekend, by chance?

Thanks!

Josh

 

[honeybear]

catholicdude942:

I hate to start another thread, but I recently discovered this movement and I started wondering about something that hadn’t been answered. I’m wondering what happens at charismatic masses that triggers the slaying in the spirit and such. I mean it seems like these spiritual gifts happen to everyone. I’ve gone to so many traditional masses and have never seen such experiences even when people pray before the Blessed Sacrament. It’s almost like these masses are a sure fire way to get these gifts. I just do see why the gifts are given so gratuitously at these charismatic masses just by the laying of the hands. I was always under the impression that spiritual gifts were a rarity, but something must go on at those masses that causes a lot of these gifts. Is this just triggered by the laying of the hands and the praying? Not to sound cynical but isn’t it a possibility that some people are pretending to speak in tongues because it is expected of them. The whole falling back thing seems to me like something you would see on one of those TV shows. I mean I don’t know it just sounds like a few too many miracles happen at EVERY mass all around the country. It’s very possible that it’s all okay and everything I do not doubt that especially since the Pope is ok with it. I trust in the Holy Spirit but I know there are also many other spirits out there. That’s why they warn people against Ouija boards and centering prayer. I mean a lot of Catholics will tell you centering prayer is cool when it’s actually rooted in Eastern religions and focusing on the individual rather than God. I’ve never been to one of these masses I’m just judging my questions based on what I’ve read on this site and other places. Sorry if I seem cynical I’m just pointing out some of the doubts in my mind that make me hesitant. If you can help me learn more about this I’d be greatful. I’m also kind of wondering how Pope Benedict is going to feel about this movement and whether he will want to keep it given his conservative stance.

1. Spiritual gifts such as tongues are the lesser and not to be worked for.
2. Slaying in the spirit is a Protestant concept that has unfortunately worked it way into the Church proper.
3. Dependence on emotion and high spiritual excitement is not a path to God for one cannot cross the desert with these things.
4. All the gifts you need you may receive in the Holy Mass proper. It is yes, very unreasonable to assume gifts are parted out to charismatics during their mass one hour after the traditional mass in which these things did not happen. Actually, insulting to the Blessed Sacrament if you stop to think about it.
5. All of these charismatic gifts are the leser. Move instead toward faith hope and charity. These gifts cannot be obtained whilre requring many charismatic signs for they require patience and perseverance and self denial.

 

[threej_lc]

honeybear:

1. Spiritual gifts such as tongues are the lesser and not to be worked for.

Quite right! At least… not at the price of more important things in the church: The sacraments, the liturgy. But if these gifts help bring you to the sacrametns and the church… then you are not working for the gifts. You are working for what they bring you to!

1. Slaying in the spirit is a Protestant concept that has unfortunately worked it way into the Church proper.

Since this isn’t a debate thread, I’ll pass this one up.

1. Dependence on emotion and high spiritual excitement is not a path to God for one cannot cross the desert with these things.

Exactly right! Those who depend on an emotional high to be faithfult to God are in for a big surprise. But there is a difference between depending on emotion and using emotion. God gave us emotions as part of our good creation… to say we can’t use them at all to praise Him is kind of silly. Remember the parable of the man who went and burried his talents.

1. All the gifts you need you may receive in the Holy Mass proper. It is yes, very unreasonable to assume gifts are parted out to charismatics during their mass one hour after the traditional mass in which these things did not happen. Actually, insulting to the Blessed Sacrament if you stop to think about it.

Quite right again! The Eucharist is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ. All grace is present within. To think a Charismatic can only gain certain graces apart from this is heresy. In fact, the charismatic graces are most strongly present in the mass, at every mass, where the true presence is! The mass is the ultimate form of charismatic worship, whether it is a “charismatic” mass, a TLM, or any other.

1. All of these charismatic gifts are the leser. Move instead toward faith hope and charity. These gifts cannot be obtained whilre requring many charismatic signs for they require patience and perseverance and self denial.

Quite right again! Faith, hope, and charity are the necessary virtues. In all we do we must strive for them! As stated above, never require “charismatic” experiences in order to advance in holiness. But if you can use them in order to do so… don’t bury your talents. The purpose of the gifts is to bring us toward faith, hope, and charity. Anyone who considers the gifts themselves as an ends is gravely mistaken.

It appears you understand the role of the renewal perfectly: Not as an ends, but as a means of reaching holiness. Pray for us all in the renewal, that we may not lose sight of this, but may daily increase in holiness as the spirit would lead us.

Thanks!
Josh

 

[steve99]

honeybear:

1. Slaying in the spirit is a Protestant concept that has unfortunately worked it way into the Church proper.
   .

“Slaying in the Spirit” or “Resting in the Spirit”, or whatever term is used in not a concept, it is a reality that happens to many people.

 

[dumspirospero]

As far as I know, there isn’t anyone on here that questions whether or not The CCR is approved by the Pope…however, some of us have personal issues with the CCR regardless of the Pope’s approval and we are skeptical of it…Afterall, approval of the CCR is something the Pope can be fallible about…keep that in mind.

Listener:

I had a very positive Charismatic Catholic experience today. The closing Mass for the Charismatic Conference in Everett, WA, was at noon today in Immaculate Conception Church. The priest who said Mass was Father Tom Forrest, a Redemptorist priest. Here is a quote from the program:

“He has been involved in Catholic Charismatic Renewal since 1971 and served as director of the International Office for CCR from 1978 to 1984. He has spoken in 105 different countries and his articles and books have been translated into many languages. He is currently the International Director of Evangelization 2000, a Catholic effort to promote Church renewal through prayer, proclamation of the Word and the formation of a more evangelistically activated people of God. Fr. Tom is a recipient of the Papal Medal, Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice (for the Church and the Pope).”

Wow! That’s a mouthful, especially for those of you who don’t think that the Pope approves of the Charismatic Renewal. The man looked very old, and he could preach almost like Billy Graham. I saw him for a minute afterward and had him give me a blessing–people were lining up for this.

I came home feeling very blessed, peacful, and refreshed. Unfortunately, I couldn’t make it to the rest of the conference. If anyone here did, it would make a nice subject for this thread.

 

[dumspirospero]

Amen…I agree with everything that you said. I find it insulting that very pious and devout traditonal Catholics whom I attend Mass with every weekend can not receive these gifts, but yet at the same time their are Catholics worshiping like Pentecostals, who are greatly endowed with all of these gifts. People forget that the CCR may be approved by the Pope, but such approval is not infallible.

1. Spiritual gifts such as tongues are the lesser and not to be worked for.
2. Slaying in the spirit is a Protestant concept that has unfortunately worked it way into the Church proper.
3. Dependence on emotion and high spiritual excitement is not a path to God for one cannot cross the desert with these things.
4. All the gifts you need you may receive in the Holy Mass proper. It is yes, very unreasonable to assume gifts are parted out to charismatics during their mass one hour after the traditional mass in which these things did not happen. Actually, insulting to the Blessed Sacrament if you stop to think about it.
5. All of these charismatic gifts are the leser. Move instead toward faith hope and charity. These gifts cannot be obtained whilre requring many charismatic signs for they require patience and perseverance and self denial.

 

[robertaf]

Once again, it would appear that a Catholic Charismatic thread has become a debate forum for those same folks who don’t like the CCR.

This happens so often and usually the thread ends up being locked down.

My only advise is to either ignore the criticism or be as loving and gentle as we Charismatics can be to keep this from happening.
If the debate gets out of hand, please notify a moderator before it goes too far.

 

[dumspirospero]

Well…is it possible to start and devote a thread entirely to discussing the pros and cons, i.e. debating, the CCR? It seems to me that everyone wants to talk about how great it is and how everyone should get in on it…but no one ever seems to want to listen to constructive criticism of it…they sure love to criticize the TLM, but as soon as one person voices any opposition to the CCR, a veil of smoke is deployed and all the CCR people, along with others go to Defcon 5 and they are never willing to discuss the cons of the movement…the only thing they are able to say is that the Pope has approved of the movement…

robertaf:

Once again, it would appear that a Catholic Charismatic thread has become a debate forum for those same folks who don’t like the CCR.

This happens so often and usually the thread ends up being locked down.

My only advise is to either ignore the criticism or be as loving and gentle as we Charismatics can be to keep this from happening.
If the debate gets out of hand, please notify a moderator before it goes too far.

 

[Listener]

threej_lc:

I wanted to go to that conference so badly!!! Could you give us a detailed description of the entire weekend, by chance?

Thanks!

Josh

I was unable to attend the conference Friday Night and all day Saturday, so I couldn’t describe it. The Web Site of Western Washington Catholic Charismatic Renewal (WWCCR) is www.wwccr.org. They are the ones who organize these conferences. Archbishop Alex Brunett apparently did the opening Mass on Friday night. Patti Gallagher Mansfield was another speaker. You could sign up for their newsletter called “Gleanings.” A future issue will probably contain a description of the conference. This organization has been around for at least 25 years and has put on a Catholic Charismatic Conference every year.

 

[threej_lc]

Listener:

I was unable to attend the conference Friday Night and all day Saturday, so I couldn’t describe it. The Web Site of Western Washington Catholic Charismatic Renewal (WWCCR) is www.wwccr.org. They are the ones who organize these conferences. Archbishop Alex Brunett apparently did the opening Mass on Friday night. Patti Gallagher Mansfield was another speaker. You could sign up for their newsletter called “Gleanings.” A future issue will probably contain a description of the conference. This organization has been around for at least 25 years and has put on a Catholic Charismatic Conference every year.

Thanks for you help, but I’m aware of all that already I just wanted a personal account of how the conference went. Sorry you weren’t able to make the earlier parts either!

Josh

 

[steve99]

I have just returned from a wonderful experience of Charismatic Renewal at Walsingham, the English National Shrine of Our Lady. This was a 5 day event called “New Dawn in The Church” and was the nineteenth Conference.
The Masses were generally at least 2 hours and were wonderful and Spirit filled experiences. There was joyful praise and also great reverence. There was Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament all night, and most of the day, as well as challenging talks and workshops.
CCR is not about happy clappy emotional experiences as some seem to think, but for many of us a way into a deeper experience of the Lord.
I have met many people who went there for the first time this year and were deeply touched.

 

[Turtledove]

dumspirospero:

Well…is it possible to start and devote a thread entirely to discussing the pros and cons, i.e. debating, the CCR? It seems to me that everyone wants to talk about how great it is and how everyone should get in on it…but no one ever seems to want to listen to constructive criticism of it…they sure love to criticize the TLM, but as soon as one person voices any opposition to the CCR, a veil of smoke is deployed and all the CCR people, along with others go to Defcon 5 and they are never willing to discuss the cons of the movement…the only thing they are able to say is that the Pope has approved of the movement…

Sure, just start the thread.

the only thing they are able to say is that the Pope has approved of the movement

The only thing??? Isn’t that enough???

Dove

 

[Joey1976]

The Pope and the Catholic Church said it is okay and a gift of the Church. IT IS FINE!!! If you don’t beleive this than you don;t beleive in the authority of the Catholic Church. However, that being said, it is not for everyone. Nor does it need to be, but that does not make it invalid. It is a gift and some people participate in it and others don’t.
I don’t see how you can debate this. If the Church says it is a part of the Church THAN IT IS…period. You cannot debate this as a Catholic, it is like debating whether or not The Eucharist is the Body of Christ. The Church says it is, SO IT IS. It is like people say, if you don’t beleive in the authority of the Chruch and what it teaches, than you cannot be Catholic. Just like you can’t be pro-choice and Catholic. The Charismatic Renewal is a part of the Church whether anyone likes it or not!!!

 

[robertaf]

Greetings Church

Only 2 1/2 weeks till the SCRC Conference in Anaheim, California. If anyone is interested in going check out www.scrc.org

This is truly and awesome experience. This convention, we were told, a couple years ago is the biggest in the English speaking world.

Hope to see some of you there. I already have my hotel, car rental and airline reservations and can hardly wait.

 

[robertaf]

Hi Church!!!

Seems there are some folks who are interested in this topic again.

Also seems someone is too lazy to go and drag it back up. LOL

 

[tgerlinger143]

robertaf:

Ahh the Saints. I have to disagree that the Spiritual Gifts are manifested in only a few Saints. I believe that they are manifested in all of them. We Charismatics do not pick and choose gifts or fruits. How would you know which Saints manifested particular gifts?
My own particular adopted Patron Saint is St Martin de Porres. When you read his life you will see many miracles associated with him. The same goes for such famous Saints as Padre Pio. It is because of the manifestations of such Gifts of the Spirit that they attract the attention of Holy Mother Church. Many were deeply Contemplative. I have known many many Charismatics whose prayer life led them into Contemplation and Holy Mysticism.

.

I have been in the Charismatic Renewal for some time now, and I feel that I have been called to this prayer community. Yes, you are right, I have seen for myself how some in the Renewal are being led to deeper contemplation. They still go to prayer meetings but may find the need to spend more time in quiet adoration before the Blessed Sacrament. I too feel that I am being led to a “charismatic contemplative” prayer life.

The Charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit, found in 1 Cor 12 :4-11:

4 There are different kinds of spiritual gifts but the same Spirit;
5 there are different forms of service but the same Lord;
6 there are different workings but the same God who produces all of them in everyone.
7 To each individual the manifestation of the Spirit is given for some benefit. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the expression of wisdom; to another the expression of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit; to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit; 10 to another mighty deeds; to another prophecy; to another discernment of spirits; to another varieties of tongues; to another interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit produces all of these, distributing them individually to each person as he wishes.
(usccb.org/nab/bible/)

These gifts from the Holy Spirit are given for a purpose-- to build God’s Kingdom, to bring others closer to Jesus.

But just because one has the gifts of tongues, prophesy or healing, for example, does not mean that she or he is guaranteed to go to Heaven. Remember Matthew 7:21:23:

21"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
23 Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. 11 Depart from me, you evildoers.’
.
So a person can have these gifts and not be holy. We know that the Lord can use anyone for His purpose. He may choose to use the the most unworthy person, but He is behind this and will get His work done through the person. The gifts given to us are for SERVICE to the Body of Christ.

It is so easy to lose sight of this. The biggest criticism I have heard about the Charismatic Renewal is pride . The more gifts one has, the easier it is to succumb to pride and the greater the need to pray for obedience and humility.

It is so easy to get so hung up on the gifts, instead of the Giver. Matthew 23:19 says: “You blind ones, which is greater, the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?”

Yes, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are needed for the renewal of the Church , but let us not forget that for the gifts to become truly operational in one’s life, he/she must to bear FRUITS. If the gifts don’t become fruits, they mean nothing to the inner life of the person, even if there is outward manifestation of the gift which served the community.

Ultimately, what make one holy are not so much the gifts but the fruits of the Holy Spirit. (Actually, in the singular- “FRUIT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT-- as found in Galatians 5:22-23:
" …the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.”

It does not matter whether you pray in tongues or pray the rosary, or just contemplate the Holy Face of Jesus. We are called to a prayer life according to the work He wants us to do, according to His plan in our lives. Holiness is a response to a call from the Lord, and does not come from our own initiative. What matters ultimately is our loving relationship with God the Father, through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, through the power of the Holy Spirit, the guidance of our Holy Catholic Church, the protection of our Mother Mary, and in communion with all the saints and angels in Heaven and with one another.

In the love and joy of Jesus,
Teresa

 

[buzzcut]

robertaf:

Once again, it would appear that a Catholic Charismatic thread has become a debate forum for those same folks who don’t like the CCR.

This reminds me of the Centering Prayer threads.

 

[steve99]

tgerlinger143:

I have been in the Charismatic Renewal for some time now, and I feel that I have been called to this prayer community. Yes, you are right, I have seen for myself how some in the Renewal are being led to deeper contemplation. They still go to prayer meetings but may find the need to spend more time in quiet adoration before the Blessed Sacrament. I too feel that I am being led to a “charismatic contemplative” prayer life.

The Charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit, found in 1 Cor 12 :4-11:

4 There are different kinds of spiritual gifts but the same Spirit;
5 there are different forms of service but the same Lord;
6 there are different workings but the same God who produces all of them in everyone.
7 To each individual the manifestation of the Spirit is given for some benefit. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the expression of wisdom; to another the expression of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit; to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit; 10 to another mighty deeds; to another prophecy; to another discernment of spirits; to another varieties of tongues; to another interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit produces all of these, distributing them individually to each person as he wishes.
(usccb.org/nab/bible/)

These gifts from the Holy Spirit are given for a purpose-- to build God’s Kingdom, to bring others closer to Jesus.

But just because one has the gifts of tongues, prophesy or healing, for example, does not mean that she or he is guaranteed to go to Heaven. Remember Matthew 7:21:23:

21"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
23 Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. 11 Depart from me, you evildoers.’
.
So a person can have these gifts and not be holy. We know that the Lord can use anyone for His purpose. He may choose to use the the most unworthy person, but He is behind this and will get His work done through the person. The gifts given to us are for SERVICE to the Body of Christ.

It is so easy to lose sight of this. The biggest criticism I have heard about the Charismatic Renewal is pride . The more gifts one has, the easier it is to succumb to pride and the greater the need to pray for obedience and humility.

It is so easy to get so hung up on the gifts, instead of the Giver. Matthew 23:19 says: “You blind ones, which is greater, the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?”

Yes, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are needed for the renewal of the Church , but let us not forget that for the gifts to become truly operational in one’s life, he/she must to bear FRUITS. If the gifts don’t become fruits, they mean nothing to the inner life of the person, even if there is outward manifestation of the gift which served the community.

Ultimately, what make one holy are not so much the gifts but the fruits of the Holy Spirit. (Actually, in the singular- “FRUIT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT-- as found in Galatians 5:22-23:
" …the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.”

It does not matter whether you pray in tongues or pray the rosary, or just contemplate the Holy Face of Jesus. We are called to a prayer life according to the work He wants us to do, according to His plan in our lives. Holiness is a response to a call from the Lord, and does not come from our own initiative. What matters ultimately is our loving relationship with God the Father, through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, through the power of the Holy Spirit, the guidance of our Holy Catholic Church, the protection of our Mother Mary, and in communion with all the saints and angels in Heaven and with one another.

In the love and joy of Jesus,
Teresa

Excellently put.:clapping:
I hope you haven’t copyrighted this because I’m going to pinch it and use it on other occasions to explain Charismatic Renewal