Charismatic Catholic in the Eyes of Magisterium

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I heard of what the Charismatic movement has been doing in the mass and done with their claimed gift of the spirits. One of the moderator from an Indonesian Catholic forum I’ve been posting in wrote an article about the ‘mistakes’ of this movement. Such include their famous liturgical abuse, huge sale on imposition of hand, and the controversial speaking in tongues.

I wonder if the Magisterium is still evaluating them. They have been so full of themselves because of Pope John Paul II’s speech about them.

PS: Is it true that the origin of this movement is from Pentecostal Protestantism?
 
While I wouldn’t doubt there are Petecostal Protestants who have converted do to the availability of this type of mass and that is a good thing by the way, I think you are making far too many generalizations about this type of mass. I am not a Charismatic Catholic. However, I do go to the charismatic mass in my area at times since it is the closest parish. It is done very reverently more so than most other masses I have been to. I actually really like it though I must admit the speaking in tounges thing kind of creeps me out. I respect the fact that some people have this gift though. The point is I respectfully disagree and think the charismatic mass is a wonderful addition to the Catholic faith.
 
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PS: Is it true that the origin of this movement is from Pentecostal Protestantism?
no it is not true

I am really getting tired of posting the same links to sources that give the true facts about the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, an authentic, orthodox expression of Catholic spirituality that has full approval of the Vatican. I am sorry you encountered some people and places that do not follow Church teachings, but that is their fault, not the fault of the movement and not the fault of the magesterium. I have posted at least 3 times in the last month on the spirituality forum on this topic (where it belongs) so if you care to do the research, be my guest.

if you need help using the search function, give a holler and we will help you out
 
Ok, can I be your guest? I would like to read that source about the source of the charismatic movement. Where can I find it?
 
One of the problems in talking about what the Charismatic Renewal does, or does not do, is that it is not a single unified movement with a top down structure, such as say Opus Dei or Focolare, or many of the newer movements. It has no membership

It has national Service Committees whose purpose is to foster the Renewal but they have no authority over Charismatic groups. The authority is the local bishop.

There is at the world level a body called International Charismatic Renewal Services (ICCRS) which is a self appointed, and self appointing body which seeks to represent Catholic Charismatic Renewal (CCR) at the highest levels of the Catholic Church. It has statutes granted by the Pontifical Council for The Laity and an office on Vatican premises in Rome.

As its statutes say ICCRS has no juridical authority over the CCR:

**Art. 7. **In giving these services [Art. 3-6] ICCRS does not have any jurisdictional authority over the CCR, since this is directly under the diocesan Bishop. However, ICCRS acknowledges a moral influence in the CCR world wide by reason of the services it provides described in these statutes.

The statues have this to say about CCR and its goals:
The Catholic Charismatic Renewal (CCR) is a grace of renewal in the Holy Spirit with a worldwide character and many expressions in the Catholic Church, but it is neither uniform nor unified. It does not have a single founder nor a group of founders, and has no membership lists. Rather it is a flow of grace that allows individuals and groups to express themselves in different ways and forms of organisation and activities, often quite independent of one another, in different stages and modes of development, with differing emphases. Nevertheless, they share the same fundamental experience and espouse the same general goals. This pattern of loose-knit relationships is found at the diocesan and national levels as well as at the international level. These relationships are very often characterised by free association, dialogue and collaboration rather than by integration into an ordered structure. Leadership is characterised more by offering service to those who want it rather that by governance. In several realities the CCR organises itself like an Ecclesial Movement, but there are also structures such as Communities, Networks, Schools of Evangelisation, Television Stations, Associations, Religious Institutes and Seminaries, as well as Publishing Houses, Musicians, Missionaries, and Preachers. All of these, though not formally associated in a specific structure have a “charismatic” profile.

The central goals of CCR, or Catholic Pentecostal Renewal as it is also called, include:**

1. To foster mature and continuous personal conversion to Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.**

**2. To foster a decisive personal receptivity to the person, presence and the power of the Holy Spirit. **
These two spiritual graces are often experienced together in what is called in different parts of the world a baptism in the Holy Spirit, or a release of the Holy Spirit, or a renewal of the Holy Spirit. They are most often understood as a personal acceptance of the graces of Christian initiation and as an empowering for personal Christian service in the Church and in the world.

3 . To foster the reception and use of the spiritual gifts (charismata) not only in the CCR but also in the broader Church. These gifts, ordinary and extraordinary are abundantly found among laity, religious and clergy. Their proper understanding and use in harmony with other elements of the Church life is a source of strength for Christians on their journey towards holiness and in the carrying out of their mission.
  1. To foster the work of evangelization in the power of the Holy Spirit, including the evangelization of the unchurched, the re-evangelization of nominal Christians, the evangelization of culture and social structures. CCR especially promotes sharing in the Church’s mission by proclaiming the Gospel in word and deed, and by bearing witness to Jesus Christ through personal testimony and through those works of faith and justice to which each one is called.
  2. To foster the ongoing growth in holiness through the proper integration of these charismatic emphases with the full life of the Church. This is accomplished through participation in a rich sacramental and liturgical life, and appreciation of the tradition of Catholic prayer and spirituality, and ongoing formation in Catholic doctrine. This is guided by the Church’s Magisterium, and participation in the pastoral plan of the Church.
Added
For full statutes see:
iccrs.org/statutes.htm
 
Hi Annie,

Your link doesn’t work except for the person doing the search. I made that mistake once, too, thinking that all of the threads/posts could be seen by anyone logging to that search link. Well, they told me it didn’t work.

It always makes me suspicious when a brand new member registers and jumps immediately into this topic, as though it had never been discussed before in these last 40 years, and as if there was no information available on hundreds of websites/forums/article/books. Sometimes banned members resurrect and post the bait.
 
I heard of what the Charismatic movement has been doing in the mass and done with their claimed gift of the spirits. One of the moderator from an Indonesian Catholic forum I’ve been posting in wrote an article about the ‘mistakes’ of this movement. Such include their famous liturgical abuse, huge sale on imposition of hand, and the controversial speaking in tongues.

I wonder if the Magisterium is still evaluating them. They have been so full of themselves because of Pope John Paul II’s speech about them.

PS: Is it true that the origin of this movement is from Pentecostal Protestantism?
That is a pretty broad brush you are using to paint a picture of those involved in the Charismatic Renewal. Who exactly are you referring to when you say “They” are “full of themselves”?

These are your brothers and sisters in Christ. You may not agree with their spirituality, but they deserve the same respect as anybody else.
 
I heard of what the Charismatic movement has been doing in the mass and done with their claimed gift of the spirits. One of the moderator from an Indonesian Catholic forum I’ve been posting in wrote an article about the ‘mistakes’ of this movement. Such include their famous liturgical abuse, huge sale on imposition of hand, and the controversial speaking in tongues.
This is not of the Charismatic movement within the Church, but of those using the movement for private gain. Did you ever hear of the sin of Simon the magician. Read acts. This is the sin of simony. It is just as sinful today as it was 2000 years ago. It is not practiced by the Charismatic Renewal but of those using it to try and profit from it. They will get their reward.
I wonder if the Magisterium is still evaluating them. They have been so full of themselves because of Pope John Paul II’s speech about them.
No, we have not been full of ourselves, but filled with the Holy Spirit. There is a hough difference. And for your information it was Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict that have all endorsed and encourage the Charismatic renewal. I respectfully suggest you do much research before you come across sounding like you do not know what you are talking about.
PS: Is it true that the origin of this movement is from Pentecostal Protestantism?
No, this is not true. We all received the gifts of the Holy Spirit at Baptism, All of them. The only thing the Charismatic Movement helps us do is learn how to use them. Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, Deacons, and Laypeople all belong to the Charismatic Renewal. Seriously look into it and learn about it before you attack it. You will be doing yourself a big favor.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon Ed,

Off topic here, but…😉

Our 7th annual conference for the Catholic Charismatic Renewal of Birmingham will be** September 26 & 27, 2008. We will have our new Bishop, the Most Reverend Robert Baker, Fr. Bill Halbing, Sr. Ann Shields, SGL.** and much, much more!

This year’s conference theme is, “Ignite the Fire (again) Lord!” Jesus said, "I have come to set the earth on fire, and how I wish it were already blazing! (Luke 12: 49) You will notice that, “again” is in parenthesis, because we hope to not only introduce the awesome power of the Holy Spirit to many for the first time, but also to re-ignite that fire in those whose flame has grown weak.

If you get a chance to head on down to EWTN, come and visit the conference, then if you can come to the Divine Liturgy with us at St. George.

Anyone really interested in finding out about how true the CCR is to the Magestarium of the Church should come and visit.

God bless you all!
 
Thank you Pani Rose for this information. October is already filling up for me. I am giving a retreat the first weekend and will be on retreat the 2nd weekend . My wife and I are both looking for another opportunity to go back to that area. This could be that time. HOPEFULLY. I will PM my E-mail address to you. Send me whatever you can
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Thank you Pani Rose for this information. October is already filling up for me. I am giving a retreat the first weekend and will be on retreat the 2nd weekend . My wife and I are both looking for another opportunity to go back to that area. This could be that time. HOPEFULLY. I will PM my E-mail address to you. Send me whatever you can
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon Ed there are two women that I know of that have been healed through **Fr. Bill Halbing’s **ministry. One had been totally bedfast for years, the other had serious problems in her neck. So we are excited and totally blessed to have both he and sister come to teach.

Last year, we were blessed to have Dr. Frances Beckwith with us, right after his reversion to the Catholic Church. Though his talk was not specifacilly charismatic in nature - it was on relativism - I think the conference was for him.

His responce was what so many people expressed concerns about here. He said he had no idea, but what he found was truth to Christ and the teaching authority and Magesiterim of the Church. He was very impressed!
 
I just saw where it was Sept 26-27. Don’t ask how I got October, because I don’t know. Anyhow, that weekend is also filled for me already. Oh - well. Maybe next time. My wife and I have been wanting to go to one again, its been too long
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
All -

The posts that I see written against the charasmatic renewal are so intense and sometimes judgemental and mean. It’s starting to make me think that the renewal is actually onto something.

A Priest told me once that good and evil clash. The better you are (like Jesus) the more people who are not close to God will hate you or hate what you stand for.

I’ve met a few people from the renewal lately and they are the kindest, most considerate and prayerful people I’ve ever met. And the Popes agree with it.

Anyway I am starting to see this sort of retaliation (for example how this thread got started) as proof that it is in fact a good thing and perhaps a very good thing.

Anyone else ever think this?
 
As for myself, I have always thought that the Charismatic Movement is a very, very, very, very…good thing.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
All -

Anyway I am starting to see this sort of retaliation (for example how this thread got started) as proof that it is in fact a good thing and perhaps a very good thing.

Anyone else ever think this?
When we came into the Church in 1979, we asked the Lord to never let us take him for granted. Not only did he bring us into the most awesome New Testament Church - we are Eastern Rite Catholic - he brought us into the Chraismatic Renewal at the same time.

We are a product - I guess one can look at that way - of the University of Steubenville. For us, we cannot separate them. They are different forms of worship - only in a sence - but they are totally awesome.

The Holy Spirit moves through the most perfect worship and adoration of our God the Divine Liturgy/Mass - the greatest worship God man can give to God. So to, the Holy Spirit moves through the worship of his Body in Charismatic worship. Each brings forth the wonders of God.

All Baptism in the Holy Spirit is, is the stirring up of the gifts given to us by God at our Baptism, Chrismation/Confirmation, and Eucharist. We have received already what he desires us to have, it us just saying yes, allowing him to stir us into flame, which is what he said in the Scriptures.
 
As for myself, I have always thought that the Charismatic Movement is a very, very, very, very…good thing.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
The Charasmatic Movement is a sort of change and for most of us change of any kind is hard and uncomfortable. You are very fortunate that you had the foresight to see what others are struggling to see or are unable to see.

Just sitting back reading these sorts of posts in an unbiased manner is very interesting. We are all Catholic and yet we argue amongst ourselves about this topic. More and more I am believing that the enemy is working to split us, as Catholics, apart. I for one will NOT let him win.

With that being said I want to voice publicly that I accept and love my Charasmatic brothers and sisters equally along with my traditional brothers and sisters.

Take that Satan!

🙂
 
I’ve gone to a few Charismatic Women’s conferences over the past few years here in Arizona, and have even gotten involved with the group.

I do not speak in tongues, but I can ‘sense’ the faith in the ladies around me.

However, I’ve been told different things about the gift of tongues, but the one that really bothers me is that “everyone who asks for the gift will receive it” and so then I feel like there’s something wrong because I haven’t. Others have told me that everyone will get it at some point, it’s just a matter as to when they are ‘ready’.

I like the explanation that everyone is given different gifts and that I shouldn’t feel ‘bad’ about not receiving the gift of tongues.

Any thoughts for me???

Thanks,

Barbara
 
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