Charismatic Catholic

[Dorothy]

When I was able to attend Catholic Charismatic weekends in my diocese the Mass was definitely the center of our worship.

The speakers were excellent and very inspiring to hear. The priest who was the liason to our bishop had a very quiet (about 25 minutes) walking around with the Blessed Sacrament in the monstrance while stopping at each row. This happened on Saturday night of the three-day weekend. The prayer groups in the diocese were subject to the leading of that priest, as he met monthly with core group members.

We also had a deacon who always set up a prayer room in the hall we attended for this weekend, in which the Blessed Sacrament was exposed and well attended during the days of the weekend.

Perhaps when more Catholics become aware of the charisms of the Holy Spirit it will be natural to just pray over one another when there is a need. Wonderful things can happen when a group prays together, praising and thanking and worshiping the Lord. Many newcomers are having a renewal of faith due to the renewal.

I do believe that the group prayer should also lead those involved to pursue a deeper prayer life, and get into some quiet contemplative prayer. The renewal should naturally lead to this.

Because we are imperfect, every movement of the Holy Spirit in the Church needs vigilance and guidance to keep in the right direction.

 

[grannymh]

Chapter by Chapter, this book on line will answer questions.

A KEY TO CHARISMATIC RENEWAL IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
By
MSGR. VINCENT M. WALSH
ISBN: 0-87029-033-9

link to book
brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

 

[Lenten_ashes]

The complete picture of what?

Of a total charismatic Mass. Not the typical hour long version which, honestly, doesnt differ much from a standard Mass…

 

[Reuben_J]

I have attended some charismatic protestant services were I witnessed speaking in tonugues, singing in tongues, clapping and verbal confirmations.

I am curious how the charismatic element would fit into the Mass services I have experienced because I can’t see much room for it.

How would I identify a charismatic Catholic in the phone book in order to locate one? I would like to experience it.

You are right there is not much room in it (mass) especially with the guideline as given in GIRM (General Instructions of the Roman Missal). However there’s nothing to stop one from clapping during the singing.

Singing in tongue (spirit) and free praise are some of the elements of praise and worship. This is usually incorporated in the mass as part of the singing. Otherwise the mass is pretty much unchanged.

Strictly speaking, there’s no Charismatic mass. It’s just the ordinary mass with a more lively music. Also there’s no standard structure as what should be in the Charismatic mass. Remembering that those so-called Charismatic Catholics are actually committed renewed Catholics, they would be more careful not to abuse the mass. Of course, you have videos of people turning the mass into something else. These are definitely the exception and not the norm.

 

[Kmon23]

I’m generally weary and skeptical of any unique ‘gifts’ that are self-proclaimed en masse. If one has some such divine charisma, I’d expect they would spend their days in solitude and prayer, attached to a hermitage for support. In addition, I’d further expect that individual to be in total fidelity to the Church, especially the Divine Liturgy (Mass) and the Mysteries (Sacraments). However, there are very few of these kinds of “charismatic” leaders and many, many more of the kind that publicly ‘show off’ their ‘gifts’, gather many followers in an organized and deliberate manner, begin a tax-free enterprise that they or their devotees lead and other questionable practices.

A couple of the legitimate ones are very difficult to reach and don’t publicly seek out attention. Here’s a few that we know about by media:

Father-monk Maxime the Stylite of Katskhi:
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2384040/Maxime-Meet-monk-lives-life-virtual-solitude-131ft-pillar.html

Father-monk Yakub of the Syriac Church:
youtube.com/watch?v=BMs3Zs6uVE0

Father-monk Lazarus El-Antony of the Coptic Church:
youtu.be/9VjU_505i6E?t=25m15s

Could you explain to me what exactly about them is charismatic? Speaking in tongues or…?

 

[grannymh]

Could you explain to me what exactly about them is charismatic? Speaking in tongues or…?

For Catholics, the word charismatic refers to the teaching of St. Paul in 1 Corinthians, chapters 12 & 14. This teaching reflects Acts, chapter 2

The beginning chapters in this link will provide good information.
brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

In general, the Holy Spirit gave His gifts to the beginning Catholic Church. The gift of Tongues is used in two separate ways. The common gift of Tongues is the gift of praying to God in Tongues. The classical gift of Tongues is the gift of speaking God’s message to the assembly in Tongues. This individual gift requires that there is someone present who can interpret the message in the vernacular.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Could you explain to me what exactly about them is charismatic? Speaking in tongues or…?

No, some have the gift of languages - real tongues, not babblespeak, Fr. Lazarus, for example. He and others have the charisms: the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, increased faith, the gifts of healing, the gift of miracles, prophecy, the discernment of spirits, diverse kinds of tongues, interpretation of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:8–10)

Out of the following, these men hold most if not all these:
maineholyspirit.org/charisms.html

They also have the following: wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, fortitude, piety, and fear of the Lord (wonder). Along with these fruits mentioned by the Apostle St. Paul in his Letter to the Galatians: “But the twelve fruits of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.”

Self proclaimed glossaliars are, in my opinion, just self serving or subconsciously trying to feel unique. These men dont go after any publicity but pray continuously for the salvation of the entire world.

 

[Todd977]

In a Catholic Charismatic mass:

There is usually praise hymns before mass. Confession will be available usually prior to, and after mass. Sometimes a lay evangelist or charismatic priest will say the rosary with everyone and then speak a brief talk. The Holy Spirit might give them different words of knowledge such as that Jesus is healing someone of a cancer in the Congregation, or that someone in the Congregation has been away from confession for 22 years and needs to confess, etc…

Then mass with some praise hymns. Then adoration after mass with maybe the Divine Mercy and prayers of intercession. Afterwards a healing service, which may include anointing of the sick, and prayer over anyone who comes up for intercession to the charismatic priest or charismatic layperson (who has the charism of intercessory healing).

A charismatic mass is the same as ordinary mass. Only before and after it there are prayers of intercession with confession, talks, praise hymns, adoration, healing service: laying on of hands on anyone who requests prayer (sick people etc…)

 

[LiamQ]

I would like to experience it.

Be careful.

People who go around looking for experiences open doors to certain beings who are incredibly interested in giving them to you.

 

[Reuben_J]

Could you explain to me what exactly about them is charismatic? Speaking in tongues or…?

As in great many things, you should direct this question to those who embrace this spirituality. They will give you better perspective.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Of a total charismatic Mass. Not the typical hour long version which, honestly, doesnt differ much from a standard Mass…

Why is there a different Mass called charismatic Mass or charismatic healing Mass - such a thing is written nowhere in any rubric, General Instruction, or liturgical document.

But not all Masses they have are charismatic. You wont see speaking in tongues during a Mass unless it’s a healing Mass…and BTW, those can run for hours as each person is prayed over by a elder and the Priest anoints you with oil. Then, finally, you have testimonies of anyone who noticed a healing during the Mass.

Here is my concern with the practice - if you can guarantee a ‘speaking in tongues’ moment, isn’t it just prearranged and not a spontaneous action of the Holy Spirit?

Healing Mass is very similar to some Charismatic Protestant type services I have been to. A lot of praise, singing and great worship.

why have you gone to protestant charismatic service? I believe the Catholic worship is much greater than any protestant service, considering the focus, and worshipping in Spirit and Truth.

Don’t want to confuse you but they may have “Charismatic Masses” but those are mild in comparison to a healing Mass…it’s basically just some evangelical type modern music spliced into those Masses. Healing Mass is where you get the complete picture.

Red flags all over the place for me with this.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Why is there a different Mass called charismatic Mass or charismatic healing Mass - such a thing is written nowhere in any rubric, General Instruction, or liturgical document.

Here is my concern with the practice - if you can guarantee a ‘speaking in tongues’ moment, isn’t it just prearranged and not a spontaneous action of the Holy Spirit?

why have you gone to protestant charismatic service? I believe the Catholic worship is much greater than any protestant service, considering the focus, and worshipping in Spirit and Truth.

Red flags all over the place for me with this.

Hi

Im a convert to the faith, thats why i have experienced both sides.

You cant guarantee tongue speaking at a healing Mass, you are just more likely to see it there.

Understand that the charismatic renewal is fairly new - birthed in the 60s but not really universally accepted until recently. And even now some people still object to it. Pope Francis was not fan initially either. His feelings have evolved. Not sure exact protocol for charismatic masses but ive been told its kind of common now and Rome and the local dioceses are well aware of it…

As far as speaking in tongues, scripture says it must be interpreted, so that is something im always cautious about ever since my protestant days.

Pax

 

[grannymh]

Here is my concern with the practice - if you can guarantee a ‘speaking in tongues’ moment, isn’t it just prearranged and not a spontaneous action of the Holy Spirit? "

Please, are you aware that the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to give His precious gifts to humans? (Acts 2: 1-4; 1 Corinthians chapters 12 & 14)

 

[grannymh]

Hi

Im a convert to the faith, thats why i have experienced both sides.

You cant guarantee tongue speaking at a healing Mass, you are just more likely to see it there.

Understand that the charismatic renewal is fairly new - birthed in the 60s but not really universally accepted until recently. And even now some people still object to it. Pope Francis was not fan initially either. His feelings have evolved. Not sure exact protocol for charismatic masses but ive been told its kind of common now and Rome and the local dioceses are well aware of it…

As far as speaking in tongues, scripture says it must be interpreted, so that is something im always cautious about ever since my protestant days.

Pax

I do not be mean to be rude; however, there is some serious confusion. Have you ever learned about Tongues and what is meant by the use of Tongues in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal?

 

[Wannano]

Be careful.

People who go around looking for experiences open doors to certain beings who are incredibly interested in giving them to you.

I believe I totally inderstand your concern and agree with what you are saying. I meant that even as a non-Catholic I would like to experience a charismatic Catholic Mass.

 

[grannymh]

I believe I totally inderstand your concern and agree with what you are saying. I meant that even as a non-Catholic I would like to experience a charismatic Catholic Mass.

As pointed out above, there is not a “charismatic Catholic Mass” per se. There is only one Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. If you wish to experience the Catholic Mass, you are welcomed to attend any Mass on Sunday or during the week.

 

[Wannano]

As pointed out above, there is not a “charismatic Catholic Mass” per se. There is only one Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. If you wish to experience the Catholic Mass, you are welcomed to attend any Mass on Sunday or during the week.

Yes I understand that. I worded it wrongly. I meant to say that I would like to experience a Catholic Mass service where the charismatic elements and gifts of worship are involved.

 

[Kmon23]

For Catholics, the word charismatic refers to the teaching of St. Paul in 1 Corinthians, chapters 12 & 14. This teaching reflects Acts, chapter 2

The beginning chapters in this link will provide good information.
brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

In general, the Holy Spirit gave His gifts to the beginning Catholic Church. The gift of Tongues is used in two separate ways. The common gift of Tongues is the gift of praying to God in Tongues. The classical gift of Tongues is the gift of speaking God’s message to the assembly in Tongues. This individual gift requires that there is someone present who can interpret the message in the vernacular.

That’s what I’m curious about, because by speaking in tongues in Pentecostal context almost always refers to glossolalia, not xenoglossy. And it seems it has a similar usage in Charismatic Catholic contexts as well.

The other fruits of the holy spirit most definitely are agreed by all as good, but I asked my question, because glossolalia to my knowledge is definitely NOT practiced by Fr Lazarus or Fr Maxine. Not sure about the second one since I’m on mobile with limited data.

 

[Reuben_J]

Yes I understand that. I worded it wrongly. I meant to say that I would like to experience a Catholic Mass service where the charismatic elements and gifts of worship are involved.

Probably not much different nowadays especially after the implementation of GIRM though it still varies from region to region.

As mentioned, you may have a time of praise and worship, a short one, probably with one praise and one worship song, followed by free praise and tongue (singing in the spirit) respectively at one part of the mass where it does not really encroaches into the mass proper or with some stricter celebrant, it will be done at the concluding hymn. So that’s it. Do not expect something spectacularly different from any mass.

If there is any healing service, it can be done after the mass. Perhaps a pray over where people come up to be ministered to or a rally where there is a general prayer for healing.

Edit: Go to a prayer meeting where you can see freedom in praise and worship and ministry. Depending on the community, there may be an exercised of the charismatic gift of the Holy Spirit, if there are gifted persons among the group.

There is no definite structure. It is totally depends on the leader or the priest, if he is the one who also leads the healing service.

People make so much out of nothing. These are all exaggeration arising from hearsay or having seen one, thinking that all are the same.

 

[Reuben_J]

That’s what I’m curious about, because by speaking in tongues in Pentecostal context almost always refers to glossolalia, not xenoglossy. And it seems it has a similar usage in Charismatic Catholic contexts as well.

The other fruits of the holy spirit most definitely are agreed by all as good, but I asked my question, because glossolalia to my knowledge is definitely NOT practiced by Fr Lazarus or Fr Maxine. Not sure about the second one since I’m on mobile with limited data.

There is no glossolalia, a term Catholics Charismatic do not use and do not like.

There are three type of tongues:

(1) Speaking in tongue, which is almost non-existence.

(2) Praying in tongue which is common and (3) singing in tongue, common also. These gifts are to enhance one’s prayers, being unable or do not know what to pray, the Spirit leads to pray in words we cannot understand but arise from the inner being that praise God. Rom 8:26 usually is a reference for that but don’t tell those who do not know such things. They will only making judgment on you.